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Re: [toyota-prius] Just for laughs, 35 MPG

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  • Troy Benjegerdes
    ... 35mpg is about my average when running on 50% ethanol in a 2001 prius with 220,000 miles. It runs quite happily unless I get the mix over say 55%, and then
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 26, 2012
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      On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 11:40:38PM -0600, David Kelly wrote:
      > I don't believe the fool computer, think the real MPG is just under 33. Haven't taken the time to calculate as it involved a partial fill. No point in topping off at $3.999/gallon when only 480 miles away at home diesel is $3.699.
      >

      35mpg is about my average when running on 50% ethanol in a
      2001 prius with 220,000 miles. It runs quite happily unless
      I get the mix over say 55%, and then the check engine light
      comes on with a 'fuel mixture too lean' code.

      I'm sure someone will argue about ethanol, but at least I
      know where it comes from, and I personally grew enough
      corn last year to fuel my car for over a million miles.
    • hlschmidt1941
      ... IIRC, the owner s manual says 10% ethanol (max) in the Classic. Around here (e. Pa.) that s all you can get anyway; it works OK, but 100% gasoline would be
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 9, 2013
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        --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

        > 35mpg is about my average when running on 50% ethanol in a
        > 2001 prius with 220,000 miles. It runs quite happily unless
        > I get the mix over say 55%, and then the check engine light
        > comes on with a 'fuel mixture too lean' code.
        >
        > I'm sure someone will argue about ethanol, but at least I
        > know where it comes from, and I personally grew enough
        > corn last year to fuel my car for over a million miles.

        IIRC, the owner's manual says 10% ethanol (max) in the Classic. Around here (e. Pa.) that's all you can get anyway; it works OK, but 100% gasoline would be better. How long have you been running the 50% ?
      • Mike Dobony
        My manual for my 2007 Prius recommends E10, not straight gasoline. Here in MO all of our gas has some, but if I go for the E10 I seem to get slightly better
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 9, 2013
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          My manual for my 2007 Prius recommends E10, not straight gasoline. Here
          in MO all of our gas has some, but if I go for the E10 I seem to get
          slightly better gas mileage.
        • David Kelly
          ... Just so long as you are having fun and don t prosthelytize and try to force others to use ethanol. As for my 35.4 MPG diesel in ML320 Bluetec, the Fool
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 9, 2013
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            On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@...> wrote:

            > On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 11:40:38PM -0600, David Kelly wrote:
            >> I don't believe the fool computer, think the real MPG is just under 33. Haven't taken the time to calculate as it involved a partial fill. No point in topping off at $3.999/gallon when only 480 miles away at home diesel is $3.699.
            >
            > 35mpg is about my average when running on 50% ethanol in a
            > 2001 prius with 220,000 miles. It runs quite happily unless
            > I get the mix over say 55%, and then the check engine light
            > comes on with a 'fuel mixture too lean' code.

            Just so long as you are having fun and don't prosthelytize and try to force others to use ethanol.

            As for my 35.4 MPG diesel in ML320 Bluetec, the Fool Computer lied. When fuel purchases were added up and divided into distance driven the end result was 31 MPG. Still, pretty darn good.

            > I'm sure someone will argue about ethanol, but at least I
            > know where it comes from, and I personally grew enough
            > corn last year to fuel my car for over a million miles.

            How much diesel did you use growing that corn? Why didn't you use ethanol if ethanol is all that great?

            How much natural gas is used at the distillery converting your corn into ethanol?

            Answer: about 80% of the energy contained in ethanol is consumed making ethanol. When diesel and natural gas can be used directly for transportation that makes ethanol a fools errand. Far better to use all that effort for other tasks.

            While it would be best to use CNG or LNG directly in vehicles high pressure compressed gas is not the funnest thing to handle. Storage tanks are expensive and exotic for 3600 PSI. If Progressive Left Anti-Progress forces don't prevent it in the next 5 or 10 years we will see diesel prices plummet as plants to convert NG to diesel appear. NG at $6/million BTU is the break-even point to compete with $100/barrel oil. NG is currently under $2/million BTU thanks to fracking and other advanced recovery techniques.

            Sad news for internal combustion engines: the chemistry doesn't favor converting NG into gasoline.

            --
            David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
            ============================================================
            Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
          • Larry Finch
            ... Physics rules. Ethanol has substantially less energy per unit volume than gasoline. So it will take more ethanol to get the same power out of the engine.
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 10, 2013
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              On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Mike Dobony <sharingguy@...>wrote:

              > My manual for my 2007 Prius recommends E10, not straight gasoline. Here
              > in MO all of our gas has some, but if I go for the E10 I seem to get
              > slightly better gas mileage.
              >
              >
              >
              Physics rules. Ethanol has substantially less energy per unit volume than
              gasoline. So it will take more ethanol to get the same power out of the
              engine. Ethanol contains 76K BTU per gallon, Gasoline 116K BTU. E10, at 10%
              Ethanol and 90% Gasoline works out to 112K BTU/gal, which means a fuel
              economy reduction of about 7% over straight gasoline. E50 would then be
              expected to be 17% worse fuel economy than gasoline. And E85 about 29%
              worse.

              Larry

              --
              Larry Finch

              N 40° 53' 47"
              W 74° 03' 56"


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Kelly
              ... 1 - 112/116 = 3.45%, half your 7% statement. The EPA s statement claims E10 MPG will be about 2% lower than E0. Perhaps this is due to 114 kBTU being
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 10, 2013
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                On Jan 10, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Larry Finch <finches@...> wrote:

                > Physics rules. Ethanol has substantially less energy per unit volume than
                > gasoline. So it will take more ethanol to get the same power out of the
                > engine. Ethanol contains 76K BTU per gallon, Gasoline 116K BTU. E10, at 10%
                > Ethanol and 90% Gasoline works out to 112K BTU/gal, which means a fuel
                > economy reduction of about 7% over straight gasoline. E50 would then be
                > expected to be 17% worse fuel economy than gasoline. And E85 about 29%
                > worse.

                1 - 112/116 = 3.45%, half your 7% statement. The EPA's statement claims E10 MPG will be about 2% lower than E0. Perhaps this is due to 114 kBTU being typical of summer gasoline, and 112.5 kBTU for winter gasoline. I have not observed data in my vehicles which suggests the EPA's statement is untrue.

                Some engines are more sensitive to ethanol than others.

                There are some gasoline sources which result in awful MPG but I have not been able to reliably attribute this to ethanol, only to the vendor. Haven't been testing for ethanol, only noting how the pump is labeled. 10 years ago one group of stations showed a trend of 10% poorer MPG in my logbook and ever since has remained on my blacklist. The same brand in other areas was fine.

                A high volume low price leader was doing great until mid-2008 when their 93 octane no longer ran correctly in my dirtbike. Found another source which did run right. I quit going there and have noticed same of others. Wasn't uncommon for a line to form waiting for one of 18 pumps. Now one can drive up to most any pump one wishes.

                --
                David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                ============================================================
                Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
              • Mike Dobony
                There is more than energy content in achieving maximum gas mileage. It also involves efficiency. I have had a long string of vehicles that got better gas
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 10, 2013
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                  There is more than energy content in achieving maximum gas mileage. It
                  also involves efficiency. I have had a long string of vehicles that got
                  better gas mileage than straight gasoline. I recorded mileage and gas
                  fills for well over 10 tankfuls using each one.
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