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Re: [toyota-prius-sat1] My Triangle of Death Day UPDATE

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  • Levi Smith
    Wow, certainly sounds like you actually have a good, knowledgeable dealer! Hold on to them! I ve heard so many stories on this list of Prius going in with
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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      Wow, certainly sounds like you actually have a good, knowledgeable dealer!
      Hold on to them! I've heard so many stories on this list of Prius' going
      in with the exact same symptoms as yours, and being told they need new gas
      tanks or any number of things, when they just need some cleaning! Great to
      hear that good dealers that know what's going on ARE out there! (:

      Levi

      On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Phyllis K. Day
      <phyllisday@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > This morning (Friday) I got a call from the service advisor who had just
      > talked to the Prius tech. The codes were P3101 and P3191, Engine Low Power
      > and Hybrid System Malfunction. They said I had a dirty throttle body and
      > fuel injectors and weak 12V battery power. He asked if it was okay to clean
      > the throttle body, fuel injectors and I said heck go ahead and change out
      > the battery. The tech thought that would fix the codes based on his
      > experience but certainly was worth going ahead and cleaning the throttle
      > body and changing the 12V out of normal maintenance issues that I was
      > planning for in a few thousand miles anyway. He said the throttle body
      > should have been cleaned at 30K miles.
      >
      > They called back around noon to say the codes were gone, the car was
      > running fine and was ready. I couldn't get there until after 5PM. It was a
      > bit nerve-wracking to drive it after the dash "fireworks" display just a day
      > earlier but it did fine, got good mileage. I only noticed one thing, that
      > was a slightly strained sound as I accelerated up a hill, after waiting at a
      > light. The sound lasted maybe 1 or 2 seconds. I wondered if it was because I
      > had clean parts and some sounds were unfamilliar with a clean throttle body
      > and fuel injectors.
      >
      > My service advisor said the tech also looked at the spark plugs and they
      > were fine. In fact, they said everything seemed fine now. I must say, I was
      > pleased that they were going to start with (as they said) "the basics"
      > before running amok and saying it was the hybrid system or whatever.
      >
      > I asked about getting the computer updated. They said that the computers
      > were updated under warranty when there was a problem - but mine did not have
      > those problems.
      >
      > Throttle body and injector cleaning $240. Battery was $138 but once they
      > added charges for disposal, and the new kit, it was indeed, $300. I know, I
      > know, it could be done cheaper with a different battery and all the other
      > retro-fits, but in the end, I wanted all the work done at the dealership.
      > (And I'm 56 years old, I got enough on my plate these days, ha ha.)
      >
      > I have an open case with Toyota in case my steering rack and/or tranny dies
      > (remember that banging I got several times years ago in the hot weather, and
      > the shudder I still sometimes get that doesn't throw codes). And as such, if
      > I need them to help me out in the future, I know how they like the
      > "hometown" discount for loyal customers. This dealership has been much
      > better than my last one, that's for sure.
      >
      > Plus, the first tow company I was going to use (my insurance has a tow
      > writer) was going to charge me $42 over the $50 credit I had with my
      > insurance. When I told the dealership, they helped me switch to someone they
      > recommended and that saved me the $42. Also, months ago, when I took the car
      > in for them to look at it, they waved the $95 charge to check it out. And
      > the tech that is permanently assigned to my car is very careful to not
      > overfill the oil, in fact, he fills it under the line by about a quarter of
      > an inch. And came out to talk to me about it and other things. That tech was
      > apparently one of the very first Prius techs, having been at work on these
      > cars since 2001. He's not a kid, either, he's at least in his 40's and has a
      > modest sort of smarts about him. Hope that translates to good tech. So far,
      > so good.
      >
      > Prius Phyl - Again
      > 2002 54K New 12V
      > Blue Moon Pearl
      >
      > ps: Twice since yesterday people said, "Your new car broke down?" To which
      > I replied..."New car? Are you kidding me? It's over 7 years old." Cracks me
      > up! What's that about?!
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Phyllis K. Day
      Because I almost always use top-tier gasoline, and always quickly rectified oil over-fills, I was surprised that it was my throttle body. But I agree with the
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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        Because I almost always use top-tier gasoline, and always quickly rectified oil over-fills, I was surprised that it was my throttle body. But I agree with the service advisor at Fred Anderson Toyota in Raleigh when he also said it should be done every 30K. And that my charges for throttle body, injectors and a new battery were really maintence costs.

        The service advisor did mention that if the throttle body and 12V service didn't do the trick, they'd be looking at my fuel tank. He said overfilling at the pump causes problems but I don't overfill.

        What do ya'll think about the research that if top-tier gas is used, then cleaning the injectors once a year is unnecessary? I would hate to think I spent the money to clean them was a waste - well - probably was needed since it had never been done in over 7 years?

        Prius Phyl
        2002 54K New 12V

        ----- Original Message -----
        Since then we have been using mostly top tier gasolines (usually Chevron because of where the station is near our house) and I have been cleaning the throttle bodies with an Intake Snake every 30K miles. Both our cars have the original computer and I suspect the computer change is not necessary as long as the intake and injectors are kept clean. I have long considered the update to be a band-aid for what is really a weakness in maintenance.



        ----- Original Message -----

        Wow, certainly sounds like you actually have a good, knowledgeable dealer! Hold on to them! I've heard so many stories on this list of Prius' going in with the exact same symptoms as yours, and being told they need new gas tanks or any number of things, when they just need some cleaning! Great to hear that good dealers that know what's going on ARE out there! (:


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Levi Smith
        Dunno... I d find it a bit hard to believe that top tier gas could ENTIRELY prevent things from getting dirty... But I don t really know. Personally last
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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          Dunno... I'd find it a bit hard to believe that top tier gas could ENTIRELY
          prevent things from getting dirty... But I don't really know.
          Personally last time I looked, I don't have any top tier gasoline available
          within 100 miles so it's not really a worthwhile option for me...

          Levi

          On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Phyllis K. Day <phyllisday@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > Because I almost always use top-tier gasoline, and always quickly rectified
          > oil over-fills, I was surprised that it was my throttle body. But I agree
          > with the service advisor at Fred Anderson Toyota in Raleigh when he also
          > said it should be done every 30K. And that my charges for throttle body,
          > injectors and a new battery were really maintence costs.
          >
          > The service advisor did mention that if the throttle body and 12V service
          > didn't do the trick, they'd be looking at my fuel tank. He said overfilling
          > at the pump causes problems but I don't overfill.
          >
          > What do ya'll think about the research that if top-tier gas is used, then
          > cleaning the injectors once a year is unnecessary? I would hate to think I
          > spent the money to clean them was a waste - well - probably was needed since
          > it had never been done in over 7 years?
          >
          > Prius Phyl
          > 2002 54K New 12V
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > Since then we have been using mostly top tier gasolines (usually Chevron
          > because of where the station is near our house) and I have been cleaning the
          > throttle bodies with an Intake Snake every 30K miles. Both our cars have the
          > original computer and I suspect the computer change is not necessary as long
          > as the intake and injectors are kept clean. I have long considered the
          > update to be a band-aid for what is really a weakness in maintenance.
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          > Wow, certainly sounds like you actually have a good, knowledgeable dealer!
          > Hold on to them! I've heard so many stories on this list of Prius' going in
          > with the exact same symptoms as yours, and being told they need new gas
          > tanks or any number of things, when they just need some cleaning! Great to
          > hear that good dealers that know what's going on ARE out there! (:
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Phyllis K. Day
          When my service advisor told me about the recommendation of 30K miles for the throttle body, I had to imagine that it was a new TSB. My old dealership in FL
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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            When my service advisor told me about the recommendation of 30K miles for the throttle body, I had to imagine that it was a new TSB. My old dealership in FL would have done it if for no reason than to make money if it wasn't a new TSB.

            Yeah, top tier gas isn't everywhere - we had lots of Chevrons in FL but here I know of only one Shell station on the other side of town. I pass it often so it's not a big deal.

            I thought BP/Amoco had just gone top tier - no?

            Prius Phyl


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Levi Smith
            To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 7:52 PM
            Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: My Triangle of Death Day UPDATE


            Dunno... I'd find it a bit hard to believe that top tier gas could ENTIRELY
            prevent things from getting dirty... But I don't really know.
            Personally last time I looked, I don't have any top tier gasoline available
            within 100 miles so it's not really a worthwhile option for me...

            Levi
            >
            >

            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Pardee
            ... Of course gasoline has no effect on the throttle body, which is well upstream of the injectors, but it should keep the injectors clean. My experience with
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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              --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dunno... I'd find it a bit hard to believe that top tier gas could ENTIRELY
              > prevent things from getting dirty... But I don't really know.
              > Personally last time I looked, I don't have any top tier gasoline available
              > within 100 miles so it's not really a worthwhile option for me...
              >
              > Levi
              >
              Of course gasoline has no effect on the throttle body, which is well upstream of the injectors, but it should keep the injectors clean. My experience with sensitive cars is that the top tier brands I have used are as effective as injector cleaner in restoring smooth take-offs. Personally, I think the throttle body is a bigger concern in the Prius - at least in the first generation. Anybody have enough miles to tell us about second generation sensitivity (or insensitivity) to throttle body gunk?

              Mike
            • Michael Pardee
              ... Apparently they do not intend to get top tier certification. They are touting a detergent additive, Invigorate, that they claim meets or exceeds the top
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 1, 2009
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                --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "Phyllis K. Day" <phyllisday@...> wrote:
                >
                > When my service advisor told me about the recommendation of 30K miles for the throttle body, I had to imagine that it was a new TSB. My old dealership in FL would have done it if for no reason than to make money if it wasn't a new TSB.
                >
                > Yeah, top tier gas isn't everywhere - we had lots of Chevrons in FL but here I know of only one Shell station on the other side of town. I pass it often so it's not a big deal.
                >
                > I thought BP/Amoco had just gone top tier - no?
                >
                > Prius Phyl
                >

                Apparently they do not intend to get top tier certification. They are touting a detergent additive, "Invigorate," that they claim meets or exceeds the top tier standards and will be in all outlets sometime in 2010. I get the impression they are boycotting the certification, as it were. Since the impetus for the top tier standard was the reduction of detergency standards beginning in 1995, I expect it will be good stuff.

                The current list of top tier stations is on toptiergas.com at http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

                Mike
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