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Re: Brake life

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  • storky_attbi
    ... I brought my Prius in for a brake inspection after noticing a slight change in braking performance at 82,000 miles. Due to an interference problem, the
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 2, 2009
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      --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "shoe_99" <lschus@...> wrote:
      >
      > Am I "special" or is this the groups experience can I get a reply on brake life. I have 91,000 miles and still on original brakes. Dealer supposedly checks them every oil and tire rotation.
      >
      > How long have the average users brakes lasted?
      >


      I brought my Prius in for a brake inspection after noticing a slight change in braking performance at 82,000 miles. Due to an interference problem, the outboard front pads merely removed rust while the inboard ones did all the work. Hence, deep wear on the inboard side of the rotor could not be resolved by mere turning. The local Car-X dealer resolved the interference and replaced the rotors and pads. The rear drums and shoes measured less than 30% wear at that point, so they were left alone. The brakes feel much improved with both sides of the front calipers applying even pressure.

      Mark in Des Plaines, IL
      2001 Electric Green Mica, 89,500 miles
    • Peter Blackford
      Yes, what you re describing is stuck slides - when that happens, the caliper is no longer self centering on the disc, and the result is as you say. If
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 3, 2009
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        Yes, what you're describing is stuck slides - when that happens, the caliper is no longer 'self centering' on the disc, and the result is as you say. If caught early enough, not a big problem to fix; later, more costly.

        Pete (on the list to check this w/e)

        -----Original Message-----
        >From: storky_attbi <storky@...>
        >Sent: Jul 3, 2009 12:06 AM
        >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: Brake life
        >
        >I brought my Prius in for a brake inspection after noticing a slight change in braking performance at 82,000 miles. Due to an interference problem, the outboard front pads merely removed rust while the inboard ones did all the work. Hence, deep wear on the inboard side of the rotor could not be resolved by mere turning. The local Car-X dealer resolved the interference and replaced the rotors and pads. The rear drums and shoes measured less than 30% wear at that point, so they were left alone. The brakes feel much improved with both sides of the front calipers applying even pressure.
        >
        >Mark in Des Plaines, IL
        >2001 Electric Green Mica, 89,500 miles
        >
      • Karl
        It seems to me that here in Michigan, HALF of the wear on the brake pads is due to traction control. At the end of my street, there are several potholes that
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 3, 2009
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          It seems to me that here in Michigan, HALF of the wear on the brake pads is due to traction control.

          At the end of my street, there are several potholes that the city ignored (nothing new) and after talking with my wife, I learned that both of us have problems with the ABS kicking in as we (Either driver, either vehicle) approached the stop sign.

          I don't like brakes, I prefere to roll as much as possible. Something I picked up when driving manuals. After hearing a local dealer NEVER saw a 3500 series pickup get 25k out of a set of front pads, he told me I has 80% left after 19k miles. Replaced them at 42k because one of the dual pistons froze.

          If I get my way, I'm hoping for 300k.

          Because of the extreme life of brake pads, has anybody thought about those ceramic pads?

          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:
          >
          > The Prius tends to slow the car more by generating electricity than by
          > grinding metal together(with brakes).
          > Therefore, the brakes tend to last a lot longer. On my 03' about the
          > only time I really notice the brakes working are around 5mph to stop
          > or with a LOT of pressure on the brake pedal(like near panic stop
          > time).
          >
          > It sounds like most of the brake work that's been done on Prius' is
          > from rust/corrosion that's common in the areas that get salt on the
          > roads.
          >
          > Levi
          >
          > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:37 AM, shoe_99 <lschus@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Am I "special" or is this the groups experience can I get a reply on brake
          > > life. I have 91,000 miles and still on original brakes. Dealer supposedly
          > > checks them every oil and tire rotation.
          > >
          > > How long have the average users brakes lasted?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Karl
          Every time you start the car, you step on the pedal. Many people take their foot off, then put it back on to go into gear....MINIMUM, the pads got cycled
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 3, 2009
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            Every time you start the car, you step on the pedal. Many people take their foot off, then put it back on to go into gear....MINIMUM, the pads got cycled without the pads sliding on the rotor, NO wear to the pad. Ever take your foot off, then get back on before hitting 1 mph? Pad gripping is one movement, releasing is another.

            How much of a size difference between a new and a non-turnable rotor?

            --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm surprised you're having to replace discs. I would think the calipers
            > would be the part needing to be replaced...
            > The disc itself has no moving parts... Any normal amount of rust on the
            > disc shouldn't be a problem and most should get wiped away on the face in
            > short order of normal driving.
            >
            > The calipers however get rust and/or corrosion and start to
            > stick and wear out the pads unevenly...
            >
            >
            > The only reason I could see the discs needing to be replaced because of
            > corrosion would be if
            > they were SO corroded that they were near falling apart...
            >
            > Can you shed any more light on this?
          • Levi Smith
            How can the pads not wear, but the discs do unless the pads are made out of a stronger substance? Some of the pads these days do seem to be in that direction,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 4, 2009
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              How can the pads not wear, but the discs do unless the pads are made out of
              a stronger substance? Some of the pads these days do seem to be in that
              direction, but I generally still see the pads as the wearing item sooner
              than the discs... And if the two are rubbing against each other, I don't
              see how only the disc could get the friction...

              Levi

              On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Karl <joes_morgue@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Every time you start the car, you step on the pedal. Many people take their
              > foot off, then put it back on to go into gear....MINIMUM, the pads got
              > cycled without the pads sliding on the rotor, NO wear to the pad. Ever take
              > your foot off, then get back on before hitting 1 mph? Pad gripping is one
              > movement, releasing is another.
              >
              > How much of a size difference between a new and a non-turnable rotor?
              >
              >
              > --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>, Levi
              > Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm surprised you're having to replace discs. I would think the calipers
              > > would be the part needing to be replaced...
              > > The disc itself has no moving parts... Any normal amount of rust on the
              > > disc shouldn't be a problem and most should get wiped away on the face in
              > > short order of normal driving.
              > >
              > > The calipers however get rust and/or corrosion and start to
              > > stick and wear out the pads unevenly...
              > >
              > >
              > > The only reason I could see the discs needing to be replaced because of
              > > corrosion would be if
              > > they were SO corroded that they were near falling apart...
              > >
              > > Can you shed any more light on this?
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mike Dimmick
              ... New front discs on NHW20 (2004-2009 Prius) are 22mm thick. The minimum spec is 20mm. 1mm each side is not much material - a bit less than 0.04 inches. New
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 4, 2009
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                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com]
                > On Behalf Of Karl
                > Sent: 04 July 2009 03:42
                > To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: Brake life
                >
                > Every time you start the car, you step on the pedal. Many people take
                > their foot off, then put it back on to go into gear....MINIMUM, the pads
                > got cycled without the pads sliding on the rotor, NO wear to the pad.
                > Ever take your foot off, then get back on before hitting 1 mph? Pad
                > gripping is one movement, releasing is another.
                >
                > How much of a size difference between a new and a non-turnable rotor?

                New front discs on NHW20 (2004-2009 Prius) are 22mm thick. The minimum spec
                is 20mm. 1mm each side is not much material - a bit less than 0.04 inches.

                New pads are 11mm thick and must be replaced at 1mm.

                On your other question, ceramic pads are likely to cause a lot more rotor
                (disc) wear. Generally they don't work as well when cold as organic-material
                pads. They work better when hot, but as previously explained, the friction
                brakes are used so little on the Prius that they're unlikely to get up to
                working temperatures.

                "Organic
                These pads are well-suited for street driving because they wear well, are
                easy on the ears, don't chew up the rotors and don't spew dust everywhere.
                They're favoured for your average family saloon because they work well when
                they're cold. Of course the drawback is that they don't work so well when
                they get hot."

                - from http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html

                --
                Mike Dimmick
              • Michael Pardee
                ... Stuck slide pins can cause a lot of wear very quickly. Some time ago I replaced pads and rotors on our Volvo but neglected to lubricate the slides. Within
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 4, 2009
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                  --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Peter Blackford <PriusPete@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yes, what you're describing is stuck slides - when that happens, the caliper is no longer 'self centering' on the disc, and the result is as you say. If caught early enough, not a big problem to fix; later, more costly.
                  >
                  > Pete (on the list to check this w/e)
                  >

                  Stuck slide pins can cause a lot of wear very quickly. Some time ago I replaced pads and rotors on our Volvo but neglected to lubricate the slides. Within a month the pads had ratcheted in on one edge of one side, so the pads were worn at a radical angle all the way to the backing. I had to replace the rotor and pads on that side again.
                • Karl
                  The pads don t wear during startup for the same reason the rotors don t. No friction! The car is not moving, so the rotors and pads just touch, not rub. The
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 5, 2009
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                    The pads don't wear during startup for the same reason the rotors don't. No friction! The car is not moving, so the rotors and pads just touch, not rub.

                    The pads and rotors will wear differently....You have a small pad, and a larger disk when you compare contact surfaces. The disks have a small wear tolerance, when compared to cars of the 70's, I think it sucks and creates unnecessary waste in the face of profit (sell more parts) which goes back to companies are green when it benefits them.

                    --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > How can the pads not wear, but the discs do unless the pads are made out of
                    > a stronger substance? Some of the pads these days do seem to be in that
                    > direction, but I generally still see the pads as the wearing item sooner
                    > than the discs... And if the two are rubbing against each other, I don't
                    > see how only the disc could get the friction...
                    >
                    > Levi
                    >
                    > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Karl <joes_morgue@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Every time you start the car, you step on the pedal. Many people take their
                    > > foot off, then put it back on to go into gear....MINIMUM, the pads got
                    > > cycled without the pads sliding on the rotor, NO wear to the pad. Ever take
                    > > your foot off, then get back on before hitting 1 mph? Pad gripping is one
                    > > movement, releasing is another.
                    > >
                    > > How much of a size difference between a new and a non-turnable rotor?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>, Levi
                    > > Smith <LeviGSmith@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm surprised you're having to replace discs. I would think the calipers
                    > > > would be the part needing to be replaced...
                    > > > The disc itself has no moving parts... Any normal amount of rust on the
                    > > > disc shouldn't be a problem and most should get wiped away on the face in
                    > > > short order of normal driving.
                    > > >
                    > > > The calipers however get rust and/or corrosion and start to
                    > > > stick and wear out the pads unevenly...
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The only reason I could see the discs needing to be replaced because of
                    > > > corrosion would be if
                    > > > they were SO corroded that they were near falling apart...
                    > > >
                    > > > Can you shed any more light on this?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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