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Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode

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  • kevin
    I don t think it is ever a good idea to press the brake pedal for more than a few seconds at a time. If you ride the brake down a hill, and around a corner
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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      I don't think it is ever a good idea to press the brake pedal for more than a few seconds at a time. If you ride the brake down a hill, and around a corner there is some obstruction on the road. Will you have enough braking power in the overheated brakes to stop the car?

      It's better to brake for a few seconds to slow the car down, then let go of the brake pedal so the brakes have a chance to cool down.

      K




      ________________________________
      From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
      To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:50:04 AM
      Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


      Yeah, try it this way:
      If you find yourself going downhill holding the brake pedal for more than
      about 5-10 minutes, that would be the time to use B.

      Levi (:

      On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM, John Morgan <john@morgancps. com> wrote:

      > Long downhill grades, so you don't have to ride the brake.
      >
      > That's it! It really isn't relevant or useful any other time.
      >
      > John
      >
      > 2007 Barcelona Red Touring
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • GREGMCKAY@aol.com
      I see the same. ... From: Jeremy Patrick To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:38 pm
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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        I see the same.

        ....and thus the recommendation to use it like you would downshifting in a regular ICE vehicle...


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@...>
        To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 1:38 pm
        Subject: RE: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode






        I recall using the B mode when going through the mountains along 15 and 80 from Las Vegas up to Chicago. But unless those mountain passes weren't that steep (not to me!) the B mode certainly topped off the battery but it also slowed the car down so much I had to shift back and forth between D and B to keep my speed at highway speeds. I'm talking on the steep hills my speed going down to 30 mph.

        Can anybody comment on this type of effect when using the B mode?

        ________________________________________
        From: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com [toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Levi Smith [LeviGSmith@...]
        Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:38 AM
        To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode

        To get the most efficiency, pretty much the only time you use B is if you
        are on a really big hill where you've completely charged off the battery.At
        that point you might as well waste energy spinning the engine to keep you
        slowed down as opposed to using the friction brakes. Any other time, it's
        better to use the regular brake pedal which will recharge the battery.

        Levi

        On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, mmiddletonfamily
        <mmiddlet@...>wrote:

        > I reviewed the owners manual but I'm still unsure when to use the "B"
        > braking mode for the transmission while driving.
        >
        > For example can I use to brake quickly
        > or just downhill to keep the car moving slower
        > or any other examples?
        >
        > Thanks
        > Mark
        > Ohio
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
        http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
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        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • K. B. Eric Riddle
        That is exactly as my 2005 behaves.  It is normal for this vehicle.  Welcome to the antithesis of automobile-dome. We will help you unlearn all your
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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          That is exactly as my 2005 behaves.  It is normal for this vehicle.  Welcome to the antithesis of automobile-dome.
          We will help you unlearn all your misconceptions of how an automobile should work!

          K. B. Eric Riddle
          1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
          2005 Prius
          2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
          Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska




          ________________________________
          From: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@...>
          To: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:38:23 PM
          Subject: RE: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


          I recall using the B mode when going through the mountains along 15 and 80 from Las Vegas up to Chicago. But unless those mountain passes weren't that steep (not to me!) the B mode certainly topped off the battery but it also slowed the car down so much I had to shift back and forth between D and B to keep my speed at highway speeds. I'm talking on the steep hills my speed going down to 30 mph.

          Can anybody comment on this type of effect when using the B mode?

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
          From: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com [toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Levi Smith [LeviGSmith@gmail. com]
          Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:38 AM
          To: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode

          To get the most efficiency, pretty much the only time you use B is if you
          are on a really big hill where you've completely charged off the battery.At
          that point you might as well waste energy spinning the engine to keep you
          slowed down as opposed to using the friction brakes. Any other time, it's
          better to use the regular brake pedal which will recharge the battery.

          Levi

          On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, mmiddletonfamily
          <mmiddlet@columbus. rr.com>wrote:

          > I reviewed the owners manual but I'm still unsure when to use the "B"
          > braking mode for the transmission while driving.
          >
          > For example can I use to brake quickly
          > or just downhill to keep the car moving slower
          > or any other examples?
          >
          > Thanks
          > Mark
          > Ohio
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------ --------- --------- ------

          To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
          http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius
          , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
          http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeremy Patrick
          I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From what I remember they didn t slow you down that much so this just caught me by surprise a
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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            I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just caught me by surprise a bit.
            Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the 2010 model?
            ________________________________
            From: K. B. Eric Riddle [riddlere@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:16 PM
            To: Jeremy Patrick; toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode

            That is exactly as my 2005 behaves. It is normal for this vehicle. Welcome to the antithesis of automobile-dome.
            We will help you unlearn all your misconceptions of how an automobile should work!

            K. B. Eric Riddle
            1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
            2005 Prius
            2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
            Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska


            ________________________________
            From: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@...>
            To: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:38:23 PM
            Subject: RE: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


            I recall using the B mode when going through the mountains along 15 and 80 from Las Vegas up to Chicago. But unless those mountain passes weren't that steep (not to me!) the B mode certainly topped off the battery but it also slowed the car down so much I had to shift back and forth between D and B to keep my speed at highway speeds. I'm talking on the steep hills my speed going down to 30 mph.

            Can anybody comment on this type of effect when using the B mode?

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
            From: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com> [toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Levi Smith [LeviGSmith@gmail. com<mailto:LeviGSmith%40gmail.com>]
            Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:38 AM
            To: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode

            To get the most efficiency, pretty much the only time you use B is if you
            are on a really big hill where you've completely charged off the battery.At
            that point you might as well waste energy spinning the engine to keep you
            slowed down as opposed to using the friction brakes. Any other time, it's
            better to use the regular brake pedal which will recharge the battery.

            Levi

            On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, mmiddletonfamily
            <mmiddlet@columbus. rr.com<mailto:mmiddlet%40columbus.rr.com>>wrote:

            > I reviewed the owners manual but I'm still unsure when to use the "B"
            > braking mode for the transmission while driving.
            >
            > For example can I use to brake quickly
            > or just downhill to keep the car moving slower
            > or any other examples?
            >
            > Thanks
            > Mark
            > Ohio
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------ --------- --------- ------

            To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius<http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius>
            , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius<http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius>
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lawrence D. Lopez
            You clearly have never done 5 to 1 shift by accident at 50. Specifically in a toyota pickup in low 4. Not that I ve done that. I just read a lot.
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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              You clearly have never done 5 to 1 shift by accident at 50.
              Specifically in a toyota pickup in low 4.

              Not that I've done that.
              I just read a lot.

              Jeremy Patrick wrote:
              > Second llight..
              >
              > I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From
              > what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just
              > caught me by surprise a bit.
              > Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the
              > 2010 model?
              > ________________________________
              >
              >
            • Paul Lawler
              ... Are you saying the battery does not charge in B mode? If so, I think I would have to take issue with that.
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:47 , Levi Smith wrote:

                > Yeah, except that in a "normal" car, downshifting always saves
                > friction
                > brakes. On the Prius, In B you'll only be wasting charge that could
                > go to
                > the battery unless you're already topped off...

                Are you saying the battery does not charge in B mode? If so, I think I
                would have to take issue with that.
              • Levi Smith
                I think we just get used to the lack of engine braking in the Prius compared to a normal car even without downshifting. Go drive something else, don t
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                  I think we just get used to the lack of engine braking in the Prius compared
                  to a "normal" car even without downshifting. Go drive something else, don't
                  downshift, and I wonder if you wouldn't be surprised at how much more
                  quickly it slows down, let alone if you downshift...


                  On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jeremy Patrick <admin2@...> wrote:

                  > I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From
                  > what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just caught me
                  > by surprise a bit.
                  > Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the 2010
                  > model?
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: K. B. Eric Riddle [riddlere@... <riddlere%40yahoo.com>]
                  > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:16 PM
                  > To: Jeremy Patrick; toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com<toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                  >
                  > That is exactly as my 2005 behaves. It is normal for this vehicle. Welcome
                  > to the antithesis of automobile-dome.
                  > We will help you unlearn all your misconceptions of how an automobile
                  > should work!
                  >
                  > K. B. Eric Riddle
                  > 1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                  > 2005 Prius
                  > 2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                  > Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@... <admin2%40yahoo.com>>
                  > To: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>" <
                  > toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:38:23 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                  >
                  > I recall using the B mode when going through the mountains along 15 and 80
                  > from Las Vegas up to Chicago. But unless those mountain passes weren't that
                  > steep (not to me!) the B mode certainly topped off the battery but it also
                  > slowed the car down so much I had to shift back and forth between D and B to
                  > keep my speed at highway speeds. I'm talking on the steep hills my speed
                  > going down to 30 mph.
                  >
                  > Can anybody comment on this type of effect when using the B mode?
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > From: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com<toyota-prius%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                  > [toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com<toyota-prius%2540yahoogroups.com>>]
                  > On Behalf Of Levi Smith [LeviGSmith@gmail. com<mailto:
                  > LeviGSmith%40gmail.com <LeviGSmith%2540gmail.com>>]
                  > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:38 AM
                  > To: toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com<toyota-prius%2540yahoogroups.com>
                  > >
                  > Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                  >
                  > To get the most efficiency, pretty much the only time you use B is if you
                  > are on a really big hill where you've completely charged off the battery.At
                  > that point you might as well waste energy spinning the engine to keep you
                  > slowed down as opposed to using the friction brakes. Any other time, it's
                  > better to use the regular brake pedal which will recharge the battery.
                  >
                  > Levi
                  >
                  > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:04 AM, mmiddletonfamily
                  > <mmiddlet@columbus. rr.com<mailto:mmiddlet%40columbus.rr.com<mmiddlet%2540columbus.rr.com>
                  > >>wrote:
                  >
                  > > I reviewed the owners manual but I'm still unsure when to use the "B"
                  > > braking mode for the transmission while driving.
                  > >
                  > > For example can I use to brake quickly
                  > > or just downhill to keep the car moving slower
                  > > or any other examples?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks
                  > > Mark
                  > > Ohio
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >
                  > To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database
                  > and Polls, go to
                  > http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius<
                  > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius>
                  > , Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                  > http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ toyota-prius<
                  > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius>
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Levi Smith
                  Umm... I m guessing you re not aware that the Prius doesn t generally use the friction brakes? Holding the brake pedal at a reasonable amount for a few
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                    Umm... I'm guessing you're not aware that the Prius doesn't generally use
                    the friction brakes? Holding the brake pedal at a reasonable amount for a
                    few seconds probably isn't going to heat the brakes at all...
                    Now, in a "normal" car, again your brakes SHOULD be good enough to withstand
                    that sort of heat. If not, they're substandard. I've driven my cars down
                    said hill using only brakes most of the time, and that's for a couple
                    minutes. Now, that said, some cars are shipped with substandard brakes. My
                    old 87' Dodge Colt, after really zipping around and using the brakes a lot
                    and then really standing on them hard on that hill, they did fade a bit
                    afterwards. But those were lousy brakes... Brakes should NOT overheat from
                    using them short of repeated panic stops or likewise track usage...

                    Levi

                    On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:03 PM, kevin <shdrdr@...> wrote:

                    > I don't think it is ever a good idea to press the brake pedal for more
                    > than a few seconds at a time. If you ride the brake down a hill, and around
                    > a corner there is some obstruction on the road. Will you have enough braking
                    > power in the overheated brakes to stop the car?
                    >
                    > It's better to brake for a few seconds to slow the car down, then let go of
                    > the brake pedal so the brakes have a chance to cool down.
                    >
                    > K
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@... <LeviGSmith%40gmail.com>>
                    >
                    > To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com <toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:50:04 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                    >
                    > Yeah, try it this way:
                    > If you find yourself going downhill holding the brake pedal for more than
                    > about 5-10 minutes, that would be the time to use B.
                    >
                    > Levi (:
                    >
                    > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:45 AM, John Morgan <john@morgancps. com> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Long downhill grades, so you don't have to ride the brake.
                    > >
                    > > That's it! It really isn't relevant or useful any other time.
                    > >
                    > > John
                    > >
                    > > 2007 Barcelona Red Touring
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Levi Smith
                    Nope, not saying that. Saying that if you re traveling down a steep hill for a couple miles/few minutes there s two scenarios: A) You just hold your foot on
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      Nope, not saying that. Saying that if you're traveling down a steep hill
                      for a couple miles/few minutes there's two scenarios:
                      A) You just hold your foot on the brake a bit. End result: Brakes are
                      unused, battery is near fully charged.

                      or

                      B) You use B mode. End result: Brakes are still unused, but battery is not
                      AS charged as scenario A because some of that energy is used up to spin the
                      Engine instead of being used almost entirely to charge the battery.

                      That's NOT to say that there's necessarily a huge difference in charge when
                      using B or not, but technically speaking, it would only be of benefit to use
                      B on hills that require braking for probably 5 minutes or more...

                      Levi

                      On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Paul Lawler <plawler@...> wrote:

                      > On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:47 , Levi Smith wrote:
                      >
                      > > Yeah, except that in a "normal" car, downshifting always saves
                      > > friction
                      > > brakes. On the Prius, In B you'll only be wasting charge that could
                      > > go to
                      > > the battery unless you're already topped off...
                      >
                      > Are you saying the battery does not charge in B mode? If so, I think I
                      > would have to take issue with that.
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • GREGMCKAY@aol.com
                      But then that would depend on your definition of benefit , and you are building in qualifiers.? Some folks might find benefit in not haing to hold the brake
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                        But then that would depend on your definition of 'benefit', and you are building in qualifiers.? Some folks might find benefit in not haing to hold the brake for 4 minutes, ... or 3 minutes.... or 2 minutes...

                        The question was asked when to use "B".

                        Use it like you would downshifting in a regular ICE vehicle.


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                        To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 5:17 pm
                        Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode






                        Nope, not saying that. Saying that if you're traveling down a steep hill
                        for a couple miles/few minutes there's two scenarios:
                        A) You just hold your foot on the brake a bit. End result: Brakes are
                        unused, battery is near fully charged.

                        or

                        B) You use B mode. End result: Brakes are still unused, but battery is not
                        AS charged as scenario A because some of that energy is used up to spin the
                        Engine instead of being used almost entirely to charge the battery.

                        That's NOT to say that there's necessarily a huge difference in charge when
                        using B or not, but technically speaking, it would only be of benefit to use
                        B on hills that require braking for probably 5 minutes or more...

                        Levi

                        On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Paul Lawler <plawler@...> wrote:

                        > On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:47 , Levi Smith wrote:
                        >
                        > > Yeah, except that in a "normal" car, downshifting always saves
                        > > friction
                        > > brakes. On the Prius, In B you'll only be wasting charge that could
                        > > go to
                        > > the battery unless you're already topped off...
                        >
                        > Are you saying the battery does not charge in B mode? If so, I think I
                        > would have to take issue with that.
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • K. B. Eric Riddle
                        I absolutely DO take issue with that statement.  The battery is charged at every opportunity WHEN ITS NEEDED. Wasted charge?  What is that referring to?  In
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                          I absolutely DO take issue with that statement.  The battery is charged at every opportunity WHEN ITS NEEDED.
                          Wasted charge?  What is that referring to?  In B mode the vehicle uses ICE braking (forward resistance-engine braking)
                          much like a conventional car (shudder) would.  B mode is not there to enhance the battery SOC, its there to provide
                          a level of control over the vehicle speed when descending a grade.  If the vehicle did not have that feature, it would
                          require friction brakes possibly the size of a Tundra's to haul it down if it merely freewheeled a charge when descending
                          a mountain.
                           
                          And we all know what kind of mileage a Tundra gets!

                          K. B. Eric Riddle
                          1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                          2005 Prius
                          2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                          Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska




                          ________________________________
                          From: Paul Lawler <plawler@...>
                          To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 4:32:30 PM
                          Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


                          On Mar 5, 2009, at 4:47 , Levi Smith wrote:

                          > Yeah, except that in a "normal" car, downshifting always saves
                          > friction
                          > brakes. On the Prius, In B you'll only be wasting charge that could
                          > go to
                          > the battery unless you're already topped off...

                          Are you saying the battery does not charge in B mode? If so, I think I
                          would have to take issue with that.







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • K. B. Eric Riddle
                          I can even find R in my Saturn at anything below 30 mph!  Aren t syncronisers great!  And talk about thresholding the airbags without hitting anything...  
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                            I can even find R in my Saturn at anything below 30 mph!  Aren't syncronisers great!  And talk about thresholding
                            the airbags without hitting anything...
                             
                            K. B. Eric Riddle
                            1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                            2005 Prius
                            2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                            Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska




                            ________________________________
                            From: Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...>
                            To: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@...>
                            Cc: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:52:24 PM
                            Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


                            You clearly have never done 5 to 1 shift by accident at 50.
                            Specifically in a toyota pickup in low 4.

                            Not that I've done that.
                            I just read a lot.

                            Jeremy Patrick wrote:
                            > Second llight..
                            >
                            > I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From
                            > what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just
                            > caught me by surprise a bit.
                            > Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the
                            > 2010 model?
                            > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            >
                            >







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Lawrence D. Lopez
                            There is one advice someone gave me if I m on ice and can t stop if all else fails: put it in reverse and gun in I think this only works for rear wheel drive
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                              There is one advice someone gave me if I'm on ice and can't stop if all
                              else fails:
                              "put it in reverse and gun in"
                              I think this only works for rear wheel drive vehicles.
                              Something tells me it is inherently wrong with front wheel drive vehicles.

                              By the way, many R gears are no synchronized.


                              I coolest thing I ever drove was a 1984 Riviera in a snow storm.

                              I'd get to almost the top of the hill and it wouldn't make it and it
                              would start sliding down hill.
                              Well you automatically step on the break and it would then start doing a
                              slow turn as it went down the hill.

                              Pity there was nothing on the sides of the road and there was a drop of
                              4 feet or so.

                              This is the point where I started categorizing routes into snow routes
                              and non snow routes.




                              K. B. Eric Riddle wrote:
                              >
                              > I can even find R in my Saturn at anything below 30 mph! Aren't
                              > syncronisers great! And talk about thresholding
                              > the airbags without hitting anything...
                              >
                              > K. B. Eric Riddle
                              > 1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                              > 2005 Prius
                              > 2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                              > Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@... <mailto:lopez%40mv.mv.com>>
                              > To: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@... <mailto:admin2%40yahoo.com>>
                              > Cc: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:toyota-prius%40yahoogroups.com>>
                              > Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:52:24 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                              >
                              > You clearly have never done 5 to 1 shift by accident at 50.
                              > Specifically in a toyota pickup in low 4.
                              >
                              > Not that I've done that.
                              > I just read a lot.
                              >
                              > Jeremy Patrick wrote:
                              > > Second llight..
                              > >
                              > > I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From
                              > > what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just
                              > > caught me by surprise a bit.
                              > > Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the
                              > > 2010 model?
                              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                            • K. B. Eric Riddle
                              All Gertrag designed manual transmissions in FWD GM cars of late have synchonised reverse, not to be able to put the car in reverse, but to reduce wear by
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 5, 2009
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                                All Gertrag designed manual transmissions in FWD GM cars of late have synchonised reverse, not to be able to put the car in reverse, but
                                to reduce wear by eliminating the grind you get when placing the vehicle in reverse.  The Mazda designed manual in the Ford ZX2 I previously
                                owned had blown sychros at 90K miles.  The Saturn I currently drive (with manual gearbox) has 84K miles and shifts almost like it did
                                when new.  Placing it in reverse while still in forward motion is absolute hell for motor mounts and clutches, though.  And placing most
                                automatics in reverse while still in forward motion, will grenade pumps, torque converters, shred bands and explode heilcal gearsets.  
                                None of the above is covered under warranty, but at least the Prius is 'smart' enough not to permit changing of gears (F & R) without
                                the foot brake being on and NOT moving over 2-3 mph.
                                 
                                K. B. Eric Riddle
                                1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                                2005 Prius
                                2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                                Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska




                                ________________________________
                                From: Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...>
                                To: K. B. Eric Riddle <riddlere@...>
                                Cc: "toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com" <toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 9:13:42 PM
                                Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode


                                There is one advice someone gave me if I'm on ice and can't stop if all
                                else fails:
                                "put it in reverse and gun in"
                                I think this only works for rear wheel drive vehicles.
                                Something tells me it is inherently wrong with front wheel drive vehicles.

                                By the way, many R gears are no synchronized.

                                I coolest thing I ever drove was a 1984 Riviera in a snow storm.

                                I'd get to almost the top of the hill and it wouldn't make it and it
                                would start sliding down hill.
                                Well you automatically step on the break and it would then start doing a
                                slow turn as it went down the hill.

                                Pity there was nothing on the sides of the road and there was a drop of
                                4 feet or so.

                                This is the point where I started categorizing routes into snow routes
                                and non snow routes.

                                K. B. Eric Riddle wrote:
                                >
                                > I can even find R in my Saturn at anything below 30 mph! Aren't
                                > syncronisers great! And talk about thresholding
                                > the airbags without hitting anything...
                                >
                                > K. B. Eric Riddle
                                > 1983 GL1100i & CB1000C
                                > 2005 Prius
                                > 2007 HHR & 2004 Ion
                                > Bellevue, Sarpy County, Nebraska
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > From: Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com <mailto:lopez% 40mv.mv.com> >
                                > To: Jeremy Patrick <admin2@yahoo. com <mailto:admin2% 40yahoo.com> >
                                > Cc: "toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com
                                > <mailto:toyota- prius%40yahoogro ups.com>" <toyota-prius@ yahoogroups. com
                                > <mailto:toyota- prius%40yahoogro ups.com>>
                                > Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:52:24 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] New Owner question - use of B Braking mode
                                >
                                > You clearly have never done 5 to 1 shift by accident at 50.
                                > Specifically in a toyota pickup in low 4.
                                >
                                > Not that I've done that.
                                > I just read a lot.
                                >
                                > Jeremy Patrick wrote:
                                > > Second llight..
                                > >
                                > > I just recall how the older manual cars behaved in downshifting. From
                                > > what I remember they didn't slow you down that much so this just
                                > > caught me by surprise a bit.
                                > > Anyone know if they re-engineered the efficiency of using B in the
                                > > 2010 model?
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Pardee
                                ... When I was at my first job in the early 70 s one of the old-timers said he had some car in the 40 s (IIRC) that had synchro reverse. He said it could be
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                  --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "K. B. Eric Riddle" <riddlere@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > All Gertrag designed manual transmissions in FWD GM cars of late have synchonised reverse, not to be able to put the car in reverse, but
                                  > to reduce wear by eliminating the grind you get when placing the vehicle in reverse. 


                                  When I was at my first job in the early 70's one of the old-timers said he had some car in the 40's (IIRC) that had synchro reverse. He said it could be put in reverse on the freeway... as long as the clutch wasn't let out!


                                  > The Mazda designed manual in the Ford ZX2 I previously
                                  > owned had blown sychros at 90K miles.  The Saturn I currently drive (with manual gearbox) has 84K miles and shifts almost like it did
                                  > when new.  Placing it in reverse while still in forward motion is absolute hell for motor mounts and clutches, though.  And placing most
                                  > automatics in reverse while still in forward motion, will grenade pumps, torque converters, shred bands and explode heilcal gearsets.  
                                  > None of the above is covered under warranty, but at least the Prius is 'smart' enough not to permit changing of gears (F & R) without
                                  > the foot brake being on and NOT moving over 2-3 mph.
                                  >  

                                  I accidentally got our '84 Dodge with a Mitsubishi power train in reverse once on a mountain road (I don't know how I managed that... talent, I guess) and it just killed the engine. I think once the input reached nil speed a pump stopped holding a clutch in somewhere.

                                  Mike
                                • Gary Novosielski
                                  That would be true if the Prius did not have a regenerative braking system, so that pressing on the brake pedal does NOT necessarily mean that you re engaging
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 10, 2009
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                                    That would be true if the Prius did not have a regenerative braking system,
                                    so that pressing on the brake pedal does NOT necessarily mean that you're
                                    engaging the friction brakes even a little bit. And there is no need to
                                    "cool down" that which was never used.

                                    You're thinking "normal" car, but you're not driving a normal car.

                                    =Gary



                                    On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:03 PM, kevin <shdrdr@...> wrote:

                                    > *I don't think it is ever a good idea to press the brake pedal for more
                                    > than a few seconds at a time. If you ride the brake down a hill, and around
                                    > a corner there is some obstruction on the road. Will you have enough
                                    > braking power in the overheated brakes to stop the car?
                                    >
                                    > It's better to brake for a few seconds to slow the car down, then let go of
                                    > the brake pedal so the brakes have a chance to cool down.
                                    > *


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