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Re: [toyota-prius] Snow Traction: G1 & G2

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  • Levi Smith
    My bet would be the difference in whatever sort of tires either car has will be the biggest difference. Technically speaking G2 has better traction control so
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 3, 2008
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      My bet would be the difference in whatever sort of tires either car has will
      be the biggest difference. Technically speaking G2 has better traction
      control so that you should have more 2wd than 1wd.
      But if you're the sort that doesn't feel that tires that aren't made for
      snow aren't a problem and that spinning like mad helps you a lot, then I
      doubt you'll be happy with either.

      Levi

      On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...> wrote:

      > I drove a G1 during the winter.
      > My driveway was a disaster for it.
      >
      > I now have a G2.
      > Is there any change ?
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Levi Smith
      It doesn t so much shut it down as slow it down to where it s not spinning. Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you re spinning you re not
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 3, 2008
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        It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not spinning.
        Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
        you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best to
        limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models it
        should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning, thereby
        getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
        The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
        breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
        system, or potentially over-rev something.

        Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.

        Levi

        On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...> wrote:

        > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the power
        > train.
        > Why does it do this exactly ?
        > would it do this in EV mode ?
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lawrence D. Lopez
        Levi: In my universe my G1 was awful. Problems in this area are legend. Some interesting info here:
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 3, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Levi:

          In my universe my G1 was awful.
          Problems in this area are legend.
          Some interesting info here:
          http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html

          Larry

          Levi Smith wrote:
          >
          > It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
          > spinning.
          > Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
          > you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best to
          > limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models it
          > should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning, thereby
          > getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
          > The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
          > breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
          > system, or potentially over-rev something.
          >
          > Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
          >
          > Levi
          >
          > On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...
          > <mailto:lopez%40mv.mv.com>> wrote:
          >
          > > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the power
          > > train.
          > > Why does it do this exactly ?
          > > would it do this in EV mode ?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • GREGMCKAY@aol.com
          To protect itself and its components from over-revving or suddenly getting traction when spinning fast. ... From: Lawrence D. Lopez To:
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 3, 2008
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            To protect itself and its components from over-revving or suddenly getting traction when spinning fast.




            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...>
            To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:56 pm
            Subject: [toyota-prius] spinning wheel shutdown question.






            As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the power
            train.
            Why does it do this exactly ?
            would it do this in EV mode ?






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Levi Smith
            Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be worse in those people s minds. I agree, I ve heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
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              Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those people's
              minds.
              I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.

              However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone who's
              actually put SNOW tires on the car...

              I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.

              I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new stock
              tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have made it
              up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got there.
              (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700' elevation
              changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant).

              And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of wheels with
              Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I didn't make
              it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one of those
              hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work taking
              another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks would have
              made it up that hill or not.

              With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control behaved
              exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the wheels
              as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not doing much
              to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just "feel" like
              spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what you
              want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out everything under
              the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that you've
              quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...

              My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely even
              harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and they are
              worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't think
              "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without big
              hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.

              Levi

              On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...> wrote:

              > Levi:
              >
              > In my universe my G1 was awful.
              > Problems in this area are legend.
              > Some interesting info here:
              > http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > Levi Smith wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
              >> spinning.
              >> Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
              >> you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best to
              >> limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models it
              >> should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning, thereby
              >> getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
              >> The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
              >> breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
              >> system, or potentially over-rev something.
              >>
              >> Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
              >>
              >> Levi
              >>
              >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...<mailto:
              >> lopez%40mv.mv.com <lopez%2540mv.mv.com>>> wrote:
              >>
              >> > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the power
              >> > train.
              >> > Why does it do this exactly ?
              >> > would it do this in EV mode ?
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lawrence D. Lopez
              Levi: Thanks for taking the time to answer. I Certainly wouldn t expect much of the OEM tires. We put studded Nokia tires on our Subaru for better traction on
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Levi:

                Thanks for taking the time to answer.

                I Certainly wouldn't expect much of the OEM tires.
                We put studded Nokia tires on our Subaru for better
                traction on ice. having had 2 black ice accidents
                One in Illinois and one in Mass.

                I think I'm going to try to make a go of it this winter in the Prius.
                I have been thinking of selling it and getting a Corolla.
                But it would cost more !!!
                I only paid $13K for this Prius with 110K miles on it.

                I have noticed that if I am moving very slowly I can never
                build up enough speed to make the hill.

                I had a mercedes AWD E300 which lost it's AWD.
                I couldn't make it up my hill.
                I tried several times.

                Then I got mad and realized I had 170 HP.

                I gunned it and made it up the hill easily.
                Wheels spinning from time to time.

                In addition, wheel spinning provides a natural sanding operation
                on a dirt road. My driveway is dirt.

                Larry

                Levi Smith wrote:
                >
                > Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those people's
                > minds.
                > I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.
                >
                > However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone who's
                > actually put SNOW tires on the car...
                >
                > I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.
                >
                > I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new stock
                > tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have made it
                > up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got there.
                > (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700' elevation
                > changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant).
                >
                > And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of
                > wheels with
                > Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I didn't
                > make
                > it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one of
                > those
                > hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work taking
                > another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks would have
                > made it up that hill or not.
                >
                > With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control behaved
                > exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the wheels
                > as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not doing much
                > to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just "feel" like
                > spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what you
                > want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out everything
                > under
                > the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that you've
                > quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...
                >
                > My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely even
                > harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and they are
                > worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't think
                > "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without big
                > hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.
                >
                > Levi
                >
                > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...
                > <mailto:lopez%40mv.mv.com>> wrote:
                >
                > > Levi:
                > >
                > > In my universe my G1 was awful.
                > > Problems in this area are legend.
                > > Some interesting info here:
                > >
                > http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html
                > <http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html>
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > Levi Smith wrote:
                > >
                > >>
                > >> It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
                > >> spinning.
                > >> Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
                > >> you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's
                > best to
                > >> limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+
                > models it
                > >> should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning,
                > thereby
                > >> getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
                > >> The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
                > >> breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
                > >> system, or potentially over-rev something.
                > >>
                > >> Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
                > >>
                > >> Levi
                > >>
                > >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...
                > <mailto:lopez%40mv.mv.com><mailto:
                > >> lopez%40mv.mv.com <lopez%2540mv.mv.com>>> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the
                > power
                > >> > train.
                > >> > Why does it do this exactly ?
                > >> > would it do this in EV mode ?
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Levi Smith
                I won t deny that there are times when spinning can get you somewhere that you might not otherwise get to, but it depends on the circumstances and if it is the
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
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                  I won't deny that there are times when spinning can get you somewhere that
                  you might not otherwise get to, but it depends on the circumstances and if
                  it is the case, you're already in a situation where you don't have enough
                  traction which is the root cause and is generally solved with tires designed
                  for whatever you're trying to drive on/through...
                  And yes, momentum can make a lot of differences.

                  Levi

                  On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...> wrote:

                  > Levi:
                  >
                  > Thanks for taking the time to answer.
                  >
                  > I Certainly wouldn't expect much of the OEM tires.
                  > We put studded Nokia tires on our Subaru for better
                  > traction on ice. having had 2 black ice accidents
                  > One in Illinois and one in Mass.
                  >
                  > I think I'm going to try to make a go of it this winter in the Prius.
                  > I have been thinking of selling it and getting a Corolla.
                  > But it would cost more !!!
                  > I only paid $13K for this Prius with 110K miles on it.
                  >
                  > I have noticed that if I am moving very slowly I can never
                  > build up enough speed to make the hill.
                  >
                  > I had a mercedes AWD E300 which lost it's AWD.
                  > I couldn't make it up my hill.
                  > I tried several times.
                  >
                  > Then I got mad and realized I had 170 HP.
                  >
                  > I gunned it and made it up the hill easily.
                  > Wheels spinning from time to time.
                  >
                  > In addition, wheel spinning provides a natural sanding operation
                  > on a dirt road. My driveway is dirt.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > Levi Smith wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those people's
                  >> minds.
                  >> I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.
                  >>
                  >> However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone who's
                  >> actually put SNOW tires on the car...
                  >>
                  >> I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.
                  >>
                  >> I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new stock
                  >> tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have made it
                  >> up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got there.
                  >> (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700' elevation
                  >> changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant).
                  >>
                  >> And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of wheels
                  >> with
                  >> Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I didn't
                  >> make
                  >> it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one of
                  >> those
                  >> hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work taking
                  >> another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks would have
                  >> made it up that hill or not.
                  >>
                  >> With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control behaved
                  >> exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the wheels
                  >> as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not doing much
                  >> to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just "feel" like
                  >> spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what you
                  >> want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out everything
                  >> under
                  >> the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that you've
                  >> quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...
                  >>
                  >> My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely even
                  >> harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and they are
                  >> worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't think
                  >> "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without big
                  >> hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.
                  >>
                  >> Levi
                  >>
                  >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...<mailto:
                  >> lopez%40mv.mv.com <lopez%2540mv.mv.com>>> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> > Levi:
                  >> >
                  >> > In my universe my G1 was awful.
                  >> > Problems in this area are legend.
                  >> > Some interesting info here:
                  >> > http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html<
                  >> http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/27739-i-hate-my-prius.html>
                  >> >
                  >> > Larry
                  >> >
                  >> > Levi Smith wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> >>
                  >> >> It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
                  >> >> spinning.
                  >> >> Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
                  >> >> you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best
                  >> to
                  >> >> limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models
                  >> it
                  >> >> should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning,
                  >> thereby
                  >> >> getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
                  >> >> The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
                  >> >> breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
                  >> >> system, or potentially over-rev something.
                  >> >>
                  >> >> Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
                  >> >>
                  >> >> Levi
                  >> >>
                  >> >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@...<mailto:
                  >> lopez%40mv.mv.com <lopez%2540mv.mv.com>><mailto:
                  >> >> lopez%40mv.mv.com <lopez%2540mv.mv.com>>> wrote:
                  >> >>
                  >> >> > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the
                  >> power
                  >> >> > train.
                  >> >> > Why does it do this exactly ?
                  >> >> > would it do this in EV mode ?
                  >> >> >
                  >> >> >
                  >> >> >
                  >> >>
                  >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mikes.email@juno.com
                  I still wish that the tire that does have the traction would at least spin a little harder than the normal creeping along shut down feeling that it does
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
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                    I still wish that the tire that does have the traction would at least
                    spin a little harder than the normal creeping along "shut down" feeling
                    that it does because here in PA we have many roads that come up to an
                    intersection on an up hill grade of about 10 to 15% to match the road I'm
                    about to turn right or left onto, and because of those little upgrades
                    being there, the gravel tends to pile up there.

                    So here in PA it is often on perfectly dry roads that one tire will start
                    to loose grip; spinning on the loose gravel, but the other won't, and
                    then the Traction Control kicks in making it slooooooooooow to pull out,
                    and that is a problem here in PA because many roads that we are trying
                    to turn onto are also twisting and on up/down hill grades of up to around
                    30 and even 40 degrees, which means that you don't see any traffic about
                    to come barrelling around the trees at 55+ MPH when the speed limit is
                    40MPH, so you end up struggling to get out before that big heavy; loaded
                    down with many tons of gravel or coal, speeding truck hits you! And this
                    is with taking all the possible precautions to make sure there is no
                    traffic coming first.

                    The huge and very heavy loaded down trucks speed way too often and too
                    fast for even their own good, but I guess the drivers feel that they're
                    experienced enough to drive that way, and I'm sure many of them love the
                    feeling of being "big and pushy" as do many of the SUV drivers around
                    here too. Now add in many narrow 2 lane country roads that they allow
                    traffic to go at highway speeds, and add in the factors of steep hills
                    and twisting roads where you can't see any traffic only a few hundred
                    feet away that might be coming at you at much faster speeds than they
                    should, and add no lighting on these roads and trees everywhere, and well
                    I guess you get the idea of the problems it creates.

                    That's my only problem with Traction Control on the Prius or I'd guess
                    any vehicle. I'm certainly glad it is there to protect the planetary
                    gears and the motor/generators but too often we >>must get moving<< once
                    our nose has gotten out slightly onto the road we are turning onto, and
                    too often THAT is when traction control will just about stop us from
                    moving out.

                    BTW, I've heard all the scolding that I or others don't give enough room
                    and try to pull out too quickly in front of other cars. That is NOT the
                    case here. You have to live here to understand our crazy hilly twisting
                    roads and drivers, to know that this truly creates a real Life and Death
                    situation even with trying to allow for possible traffic that might come
                    around that bend too fast.

                    Mike

                    On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 05:06:03 -0400 "Levi Smith" <LeviGSmith@...>
                    writes:
                    > Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those
                    > people's
                    > minds.
                    > I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the
                    > snow.
                    >
                    > However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone
                    > who's
                    > actually put SNOW tires on the car...
                    >
                    > I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.
                    >
                    > I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new
                    > stock
                    > tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have
                    > made it
                    > up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got
                    > there.
                    > (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700'
                    > elevation
                    > changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant).
                    >
                    > And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of
                    > wheels with
                    > Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I
                    > didn't make
                    > it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one
                    > of those
                    > hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work
                    > taking
                    > another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks
                    > would have
                    > made it up that hill or not.
                    >
                    > With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control
                    > behaved
                    > exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the
                    > wheels
                    > as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not
                    > doing much
                    > to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just
                    > "feel" like
                    > spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what
                    > you
                    > want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out
                    > everything under
                    > the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that
                    > you've
                    > quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...
                    >
                    > My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely
                    > even
                    > harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and
                    > they are
                    > worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't
                    > think
                    > "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without
                    > big
                    > hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.
                    >
                    > Levi
                    >
                    ____________________________________________________________
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                  • David dixen
                    I have run or four blizaks for the last 15 years ( on every car I have owned during that time). The Prius is this only one that Will slow to a stop and then
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have run or four blizaks for the last 15 years ( on every car I have owned during that time).
                      The Prius is this only one that Will slow to a stop and then spin one wheel at a time getting you nowhere.   Even my Miata, without traction control, does better.
                      I don;t want the wheels to spin fast, I just want them to continue to turn.    Then I have some chance of getting though deep snow.
                       
                      I can rock out of a bad spot if I do it very carefully.   I use the brakes at the end of each "run" and then change direction.    This takes much more time that other cars would have.
                       
                      2006
                      David
                      White
                       Minnesota

                      --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:

                      From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                      Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] spinning wheel shutdown question.
                      To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 7:56 AM






                      I won't deny that there are times when spinning can get you somewhere that
                      you might not otherwise get to, but it depends on the circumstances and if
                      it is the case, you're already in a situation where you don't have enough
                      traction which is the root cause and is generally solved with tires designed
                      for whatever you're trying to drive on/through.. .
                      And yes, momentum can make a lot of differences.

                      Levi

                      On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com> wrote:

                      > Levi:
                      >
                      > Thanks for taking the time to answer.
                      >
                      > I Certainly wouldn't expect much of the OEM tires.
                      > We put studded Nokia tires on our Subaru for better
                      > traction on ice. having had 2 black ice accidents
                      > One in Illinois and one in Mass.
                      >
                      > I think I'm going to try to make a go of it this winter in the Prius.
                      > I have been thinking of selling it and getting a Corolla.
                      > But it would cost more !!!
                      > I only paid $13K for this Prius with 110K miles on it.
                      >
                      > I have noticed that if I am moving very slowly I can never
                      > build up enough speed to make the hill.
                      >
                      > I had a mercedes AWD E300 which lost it's AWD.
                      > I couldn't make it up my hill.
                      > I tried several times.
                      >
                      > Then I got mad and realized I had 170 HP.
                      >
                      > I gunned it and made it up the hill easily.
                      > Wheels spinning from time to time.
                      >
                      > In addition, wheel spinning provides a natural sanding operation
                      > on a dirt road. My driveway is dirt.
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      > Levi Smith wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >> Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those people's
                      >> minds.
                      >> I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.
                      >>
                      >> However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone who's
                      >> actually put SNOW tires on the car...
                      >>
                      >> I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.
                      >>
                      >> I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new stock
                      >> tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have made it
                      >> up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got there.
                      >> (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700' elevation
                      >> changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant) .
                      >>
                      >> And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of wheels
                      >> with
                      >> Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I didn't
                      >> make
                      >> it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one of
                      >> those
                      >> hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work taking
                      >> another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks would have
                      >> made it up that hill or not.
                      >>
                      >> With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control behaved
                      >> exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the wheels
                      >> as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not doing much
                      >> to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just "feel" like
                      >> spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what you
                      >> want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out everything
                      >> under
                      >> the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that you've
                      >> quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...
                      >>
                      >> My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely even
                      >> harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and they are
                      >> worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't think
                      >> "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without big
                      >> hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.
                      >>
                      >> Levi
                      >>
                      >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com<mailto:
                      >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > Levi:
                      >> >
                      >> > In my universe my G1 was awful.
                      >> > Problems in this area are legend.
                      >> > Some interesting info here:
                      >> > http://priuschat. com/forums/ prius-main- forum/27739- i-hate-my- prius.html<
                      >> http://priuschat. com/forums/ prius-main- forum/27739- i-hate-my- prius.html>
                      >> >
                      >> > Larry
                      >> >
                      >> > Levi Smith wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >>
                      >> >> It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
                      >> >> spinning.
                      >> >> Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
                      >> >> you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best
                      >> to
                      >> >> limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models
                      >> it
                      >> >> should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning,
                      >> thereby
                      >> >> getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
                      >> >> The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
                      >> >> breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
                      >> >> system, or potentially over-rev something.
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Levi
                      >> >>
                      >> >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com<mailto:
                      >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>< mailto:
                      >> >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>> wrote:
                      >> >>
                      >> >> > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the
                      >> power
                      >> >> > train.
                      >> >> > Why does it do this exactly ?
                      >> >> > would it do this in EV mode ?
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >>
                      >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >

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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David dixen
                      I have run or four blizaks for the last 15 years ( on every car I have owned during that time). The Prius is thie only one that wil slow to a stop and then
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have run or four blizaks for the last 15 years ( on every car I have owned during that time).
                        The Prius is thie only one that wil slow to a stop and then spin one wheel at a time geting you nowhere.   Even my Miata, without taction control, does better.
                        I don;t want the wheels to spin fast, I just want them to contiune to turn.    Then I have some chance of getting though deep snow.
                         
                        I can rock out of a bad spot if I do it very carefully.   I use the brakes at the end of each "run" and then change direction.    This takes much more time that other cars would have.
                         
                        2006

                        --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...> wrote:

                        From: Levi Smith <LeviGSmith@...>
                        Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] spinning wheel shutdown question.
                        To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 7:56 AM






                        I won't deny that there are times when spinning can get you somewhere that
                        you might not otherwise get to, but it depends on the circumstances and if
                        it is the case, you're already in a situation where you don't have enough
                        traction which is the root cause and is generally solved with tires designed
                        for whatever you're trying to drive on/through.. .
                        And yes, momentum can make a lot of differences.

                        Levi

                        On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com> wrote:

                        > Levi:
                        >
                        > Thanks for taking the time to answer.
                        >
                        > I Certainly wouldn't expect much of the OEM tires.
                        > We put studded Nokia tires on our Subaru for better
                        > traction on ice. having had 2 black ice accidents
                        > One in Illinois and one in Mass.
                        >
                        > I think I'm going to try to make a go of it this winter in the Prius.
                        > I have been thinking of selling it and getting a Corolla.
                        > But it would cost more !!!
                        > I only paid $13K for this Prius with 110K miles on it.
                        >
                        > I have noticed that if I am moving very slowly I can never
                        > build up enough speed to make the hill.
                        >
                        > I had a mercedes AWD E300 which lost it's AWD.
                        > I couldn't make it up my hill.
                        > I tried several times.
                        >
                        > Then I got mad and realized I had 170 HP.
                        >
                        > I gunned it and made it up the hill easily.
                        > Wheels spinning from time to time.
                        >
                        > In addition, wheel spinning provides a natural sanding operation
                        > on a dirt road. My driveway is dirt.
                        >
                        > Larry
                        >
                        > Levi Smith wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Yes, it does sound like the current gen might be "worse" in those people's
                        >> minds.
                        >> I agree, I've heard lots of people complain about their Prius in the snow.
                        >>
                        >> However... I don't believe I've yet to read a complaint from anyone who's
                        >> actually put SNOW tires on the car...
                        >>
                        >> I get plenty of snow/ice/slush here in upstate NY.
                        >>
                        >> I drove the first bit of snow/slush in my 2003 on almost brand new stock
                        >> tires and it moved, but very slowly and loosely. I would NOT have made it
                        >> up the hill to my house had it not been plowed right before I got there.
                        >> (Also keep in mind that my "hills" are generally around 700' elevation
                        >> changes over a couple miles... i.e. not insignificant) .
                        >>
                        >> And as I would do with ANY vehicle of mine, I put another set of wheels
                        >> with
                        >> Blizzaks on and problem solved. The only time during the year I didn't
                        >> make
                        >> it the direction I was intending was a morning trying to get up one of
                        >> those
                        >> hills where the road was covered with ice. I did make it to work taking
                        >> another route. I question whether the AWD Subaru with Blizzaks would have
                        >> made it up that hill or not.
                        >>
                        >> With EITHER set of tires I believe the car and traction control behaved
                        >> exactly as I would expect. The traction control started slowing the wheels
                        >> as they started spinning. If they're spinning then they're not doing much
                        >> to move you anywhere... I get the impression most people just "feel" like
                        >> spinning has to work to get somewhere when it's the opposite of what you
                        >> want... I suppose if you're of the "spin until you dig out everything
                        >> under
                        >> the wheels" mentality there's a chance it would help, except that you've
                        >> quite likely dug yourself into really being stuck by then...
                        >>
                        >> My guess would be that the stock tires being LRR are quite likely even
                        >> harder composition than normal which gets worse in the winter and they are
                        >> worse than most "all season" tires in snow. But personally I don't think
                        >> "all seasons" belong much in snow unless you live in a city without big
                        >> hills that's kept plowed all the time. Maybe.
                        >>
                        >> Levi
                        >>
                        >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com<mailto:
                        >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> > Levi:
                        >> >
                        >> > In my universe my G1 was awful.
                        >> > Problems in this area are legend.
                        >> > Some interesting info here:
                        >> > http://priuschat. com/forums/ prius-main- forum/27739- i-hate-my- prius.html<
                        >> http://priuschat. com/forums/ prius-main- forum/27739- i-hate-my- prius.html>
                        >> >
                        >> > Larry
                        >> >
                        >> > Levi Smith wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> >>
                        >> >> It doesn't so much shut it down as slow it down to where it's not
                        >> >> spinning.
                        >> >> Most any decent traction control will do the same. If you're spinning
                        >> >> you're not getting the traction you should be so it will do it's best
                        >> to
                        >> >> limit the power to the wheels to get more traction. In the 04+ models
                        >> it
                        >> >> should also be applying the brake to the wheel that is spinning,
                        >> thereby
                        >> >> getting the wheel with more traction to start turning.
                        >> >> The limitation of power is also beneficial to help reduce the chance of
                        >> >> breaking something if your wheels suddenly gain traction and shock the
                        >> >> system, or potentially over-rev something.
                        >> >>
                        >> >> Yes, it does this in EV mode as well.
                        >> >>
                        >> >> Levi
                        >> >>
                        >> >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Lawrence D. Lopez <lopez@.... com<mailto:
                        >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>< mailto:
                        >> >> lopez%40mv.mv. com <lopez%2540mv. mv.com>>> wrote:
                        >> >>
                        >> >> > As I understand it a Prius when it breaks traction shuts down the
                        >> power
                        >> >> > train.
                        >> >> > Why does it do this exactly ?
                        >> >> > would it do this in EV mode ?
                        >> >> >
                        >> >> >
                        >> >> >
                        >> >>
                        >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Robert Sullivan
                        Hi all, We in Fairbanks Alaska have snow 7 months a year. There are now over a hundred of the late generation machines here. The Prius works VERY well in the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 4, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi all,

                          We in Fairbanks Alaska have snow 7 months a year. There are now over a hundred of the late generation machines here. The Prius works VERY well in the snow. What one needs is a little (why is it called so when it seems to be lacking in so many) common sense. When the tire starts to slip, what is needed is LESS throttle, not more. Apply any increases gingerly (the eggshell between the foot and throttle pedal is the best way to conceptualize it). An aggressive tire tread pattern helps. Jury is out on whether Bizzaks, Icelanders, or conventional carbide studs - all have their proponents here. Personally I'm leaning toward the Icelanders, since they don't need to be removed for the warm spell (summer?). Shoveling, sanding, proper use of momentum, and avoiding problem roads and driveways in the first place also works well. What more can we say?

                          Stay warm,

                          Robert Sullivan
                          05 Silver, license 'KYOTO'
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