Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [toyota-prius] Re: replacement tire question

Expand Messages
  • Spidy
    Cor: Thanks great advice! I use N2 in my tires (get it for free) they do seem to run cooler. I noticed much less of a pressure change form cold to hot with N2.
    Message 1 of 21 , May 31, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Cor:
      Thanks great advice!

      I use N2 in my tires (get it for free) they do seem to run cooler. I noticed much less of a pressure change form cold to hot with N2.
      I think this because there is no moisture in the N2, where as air compressors condensate water into the air as it is being compressed.
      Also since N2 is pure the tires don't rot at least from the inside. N2 is a smaller molecule if you have a slow leak it will leak out faster.


      However if it wasn't free I would use air too.
      Spidy



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Cor van de Water
      To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:34 PM
      Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: replacement tire question


      Hi Sharol,

      N2 filling is "snake oil" (it does not provide any measurable
      benefit, but is surrounded by great claims of improvements).
      So, if they provide it for free, then you can accept it,
      I would not think twice about paying for it.
      Note that air is approx 80% N2 anyway, so you will get all the
      benefits by just filling with plain old air.
      This hype has been refuted many times and I have never seen
      a study to the effect of proving a substantial benefit.
      But I could be wrong, of course.

      I bought Sumitomo HTR200 for about $45 each. They were supposed
      to be lower rolling resistance than the OEM Potenzas, though I
      have difficulty to get the same MPG as with the (worn) Potenzas
      though some of that can be explained by the thicker rubber
      causing higher friction losses.
      There are alternatives, but this was one of the best deals.
      BTW: I took the Tire-rack pricing to American Tire, as they
      will match the price of competition. Tire Rack does not have
      a store nearby, while I could almost walk from work to
      American Tire.
      Cor.

      --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "sharol46" <ctutor@...> wrote:
      >
      > My 2001 classic Prius (40,000 miles or so) is really in need of
      tires
      > (again). I am confused by the sidewall ratings I am seeing on
      > replacement tires, and I understand that the sidewall rating is
      really
      > important on these little cars.
      >
      > Can anyone explain them? B06? B03? (Goodyear) which is better or
      > worse? My dealer wants to put on Dunlops (175-65-14)at $84.50
      each
      > with N2 at an additional $26 (price included road hazard for 2
      years).
      > I'm not interested in putting in excess of $450 into tires unless
      it is
      > absolutely necessary. The goodyear guy recomments Regatta 2
      > (P175/65R14) but I don't have a price on those yet. My husband
      likes
      > the Hankook Optimo H420 listed at Tirerack.com as suitable for my
      car.
      >
      > Anyone know anything about this (except that the Dunlops are
      > overpriced)?
      >
      > Sharol
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peter Blackford
      Based on standard calculations, these will be larger in rolling radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you ll notice a bit more
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Based on standard calculations, these will be larger in rolling radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you'll notice a bit more leisurely acceleration and poorer indicated mpg. Also, your speedometer will read lower than actual and you'll put 'miles' on the car at a lower rate. So, some good, some bad...and mpg calculation (if you want to get to the real numbers, which seems to be a fixation suffered by some here) will become more challenging. Fewer 'miles' per tank, probably, so be aware... even if rolling resistance is no worse than before (and it may well be worse, since worn tires usually roll easier even if nothing else changes).

        42/40, anyway

        Pete (my Nokians are 185/60, slightly the other side of stock)

        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Michael Pardee <flagmichael@...>
        >Sent: May 31, 2007 10:53 PM
        >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: replacement tire question
        >
        >Barum Bravuris is what I got yesterday at Discount Tire. 44 psi max,
        >load range 86 and speed range H in the 195/60R14 size. How they
        >actually perform remains to be seen, since I only have about ten
        >miles on them and haven't exceeded 40 mph.
        >
        >We've been using 195s (Yokohama YK420, now out of production) on my
        >wife's 2002 for a little over a year and we like them. The wide
        >tires aren't suitable for snow without chains, though.
        >
        >Mike
        >
      • Michael Pardee
        ... radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you ll notice a bit more leisurely acceleration and poorer indicated mpg. Also, your
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Peter Blackford <PriusPete@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Based on standard calculations, these will be larger in rolling
          radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you'll
          notice a bit more leisurely acceleration and poorer indicated mpg.
          Also, your speedometer will read lower than actual and you'll
          put 'miles' on the car at a lower rate. So, some good, some
          bad...and mpg calculation (if you want to get to the real numbers,
          which seems to be a fixation suffered by some here) will become more
          challenging. Fewer 'miles' per tank, probably, so be aware... even
          if rolling resistance is no worse than before (and it may well be
          worse, since worn tires usually roll easier even if nothing else
          changes).
          >
          > 42/40, anyway
          >
          > Pete (my Nokians are 185/60, slightly the other side of stock)
          >

          I hadn't thought about the rolling radius; I will have to see how
          the speedometer stacks up now. With the Toyos that were on the car
          when I bought it the speedometer was very close to being right at 35
          mph, rather than the 3 mph low I was used to with my wife's car and
          my work truck.

          Something I wasn't prepared for is that the steering wheel now sits
          about 5 degrees to the left - the car drifts way right if I try to
          center the wheel on the road. It wasn't like that before the new
          tires and I'm sure the shop didn't touch the alignment (they don't
          have alignment equipment AFAIK). The steering doesn't pull, so it
          isn't air pressure difference. I have to do the masking tape test,
          so I'll get to see the pressure wear pattern along with toe effect.

          Mike
        • Peter Blackford
          Interesting about the steering -- sounds like a manufacturing defect in the tires causing some type of mismatch side to side.... OTOH, the old tires were
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Interesting about the steering -- sounds like a manufacturing defect in the tires causing some type of mismatch side to side.... OTOH, the old tires were worn-in and may have been causing a problem that's now gone. Hard to know the bottom-line answer until you let a good alignment shop have a look.

            Pete

            -----Original Message-----
            >From: Michael Pardee <flagmichael@...>
            >Sent: Jun 1, 2007 8:35 AM
            >To: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [toyota-prius] Re: replacement tire question
            >
            >--- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Peter Blackford <PriusPete@...>
            >wrote:
            >>
            >> Based on standard calculations, these will be larger in rolling
            >radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you'll
            >notice a bit more leisurely acceleration and poorer indicated mpg.
            >Also, your speedometer will read lower than actual and you'll
            >put 'miles' on the car at a lower rate. So, some good, some
            >bad...and mpg calculation (if you want to get to the real numbers,
            >which seems to be a fixation suffered by some here) will become more
            >challenging. Fewer 'miles' per tank, probably, so be aware... even
            >if rolling resistance is no worse than before (and it may well be
            >worse, since worn tires usually roll easier even if nothing else
            >changes).
            >>
            >> 42/40, anyway
            >>
            >> Pete (my Nokians are 185/60, slightly the other side of stock)
            >>
            >
            >I hadn't thought about the rolling radius; I will have to see how
            >the speedometer stacks up now. With the Toyos that were on the car
            >when I bought it the speedometer was very close to being right at 35
            >mph, rather than the 3 mph low I was used to with my wife's car and
            >my work truck.
            >
            >Something I wasn't prepared for is that the steering wheel now sits
            >about 5 degrees to the left - the car drifts way right if I try to
            >center the wheel on the road. It wasn't like that before the new
            >tires and I'm sure the shop didn't touch the alignment (they don't
            >have alignment equipment AFAIK). The steering doesn't pull, so it
            >isn't air pressure difference. I have to do the masking tape test,
            >so I'll get to see the pressure wear pattern along with toe effect.
            >
            >Mike
            >
            >
            >
            >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
            >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
            >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • K. B. Eric Riddle
            The change in position of steering wheel indicates radial belt was pulled in the old set, and the car was misaligned during the previous tire s life. Its time
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              The change in position of steering wheel indicates radial belt was pulled in the old set, and the car was misaligned during the previous tire's life. Its time to correct.
              As for tire sizing...
              Every manufacture I have bought from has, someplace-website, booklet, pamphlet-tire dimentions. The critical dimentions are rim size and circumfrence. If they will not go on the rim, they will not hold air...and keep them close on circumfrence, or they might not fit in the wheel. You can get wider, and lower the aspect ratio and retain same rpm (revolutions per mile). In other words changing from 65 to 60 height aspect and increasing from 185 to 195 tread section width does very litte to change how many times the tire turn per mile. (With Yokohama Avid H4s tires it is exaclty the same as the factory Goodyear Integrity). You guys have a blast...
              I tried to order 205/55HR15 tires from Tire Rack and they gave me a call...it flagged the system as a no fit, and they just wanted to confirm. Tire too wide...the 195's rub at lock when the front suspension is bottomed (entering driveway). The 205s would have torn something up.

              Michael Pardee <flagmichael@...> wrote:
              --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, Peter Blackford <PriusPete@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Based on standard calculations, these will be larger in rolling
              radius than the car is designed for. What this means is that you'll
              notice a bit more leisurely acceleration and poorer indicated mpg.
              Also, your speedometer will read lower than actual and you'll
              put 'miles' on the car at a lower rate. So, some good, some
              bad...and mpg calculation (if you want to get to the real numbers,
              which seems to be a fixation suffered by some here) will become more
              challenging. Fewer 'miles' per tank, probably, so be aware... even
              if rolling resistance is no worse than before (and it may well be
              worse, since worn tires usually roll easier even if nothing else
              changes).
              >
              > 42/40, anyway
              >
              > Pete (my Nokians are 185/60, slightly the other side of stock)
              >

              I hadn't thought about the rolling radius; I will have to see how
              the speedometer stacks up now. With the Toyos that were on the car
              when I bought it the speedometer was very close to being right at 35
              mph, rather than the 3 mph low I was used to with my wife's car and
              my work truck.

              Something I wasn't prepared for is that the steering wheel now sits
              about 5 degrees to the left - the car drifts way right if I try to
              center the wheel on the road. It wasn't like that before the new
              tires and I'm sure the shop didn't touch the alignment (they don't
              have alignment equipment AFAIK). The steering doesn't pull, so it
              isn't air pressure difference. I have to do the masking tape test,
              so I'll get to see the pressure wear pattern along with toe effect.

              Mike






              K. B. Eric Riddle
              1983 GL1100i
              2004 Saturn Ion
              2005 Prius
              2007 HHR


              ---------------------------------
              Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael Pardee
              ... pulled in the old set, and the car was misaligned during the previous tire s life. Its time to correct. ... booklet, pamphlet-tire dimentions. The
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com, "K. B. Eric Riddle"
                <riddlere@...> wrote:
                >
                > The change in position of steering wheel indicates radial belt was
                pulled in the old set, and the car was misaligned during the
                previous tire's life. Its time to correct.
                > As for tire sizing...
                > Every manufacture I have bought from has, someplace-website,
                booklet, pamphlet-tire dimentions. The critical dimentions are rim
                size and circumfrence. If they will not go on the rim, they will
                not hold air...and keep them close on circumfrence, or they might
                not fit in the wheel. You can get wider, and lower the aspect ratio
                and retain same rpm (revolutions per mile). In other words changing
                from 65 to 60 height aspect and increasing from 185 to 195 tread
                section width does very litte to change how many times the tire turn
                per mile. (With Yokohama Avid H4s tires it is exaclty the same as
                the factory Goodyear Integrity). You guys have a blast...
                > I tried to order 205/55HR15 tires from Tire Rack and they gave
                me a call...it flagged the system as a no fit, and they just wanted
                to confirm. Tire too wide...the 195's rub at lock when the front
                suspension is bottomed (entering driveway). The 205s would have
                torn something up.
                =====================================================================

                Thanks, all. You are leading me to the conclusion I hoped to avoid:
                this car needs a for-real 4-wheel alignment as a starter. The shocks
                are still good on all corners, but something certainly chewed up the
                rear tires and has caused the front alignment to shift. Knowing how
                sensitive the Prius is to even tiny toe errors, and the implication
                of the rear axle in the situation, it's time to take this to the big
                boys.

                Mike
              • David Kelly
                ... What? Darn near any 14 tire will fit on any 14 rim, 15 tire on 15 rim, *and* hold air. One needs to match tire width to rim width so that the sidewall
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 09:08:42AM -0700, K. B. Eric Riddle wrote:
                  > As for tire sizing...
                  > Every manufacture I have bought from has, someplace-website,
                  > booklet, pamphlet-tire dimentions. The critical dimentions are rim
                  > size and circumference. If they will not go on the rim, they will not
                  > hold air

                  What? Darn near any 14" tire will fit on any 14" rim, 15" tire on 15"
                  rim, *and* hold air. One needs to match tire width to rim width so that
                  the sidewall is in proper shape when mounted. Narrow tire on wide rim
                  will result in a straighter sidewall which will not carry loads as
                  intended, ride will be rough. Wide tire on narrow rim will be much
                  rounder and pinched.

                  > ...and keep them close on circumfrence, or they might not fit in the
                  > wheel.

                  Proper circumference keeps gear ratios and speedometer calibration where
                  the designer intended.

                  > You can get wider, and lower the aspect ratio and retain same rpm
                  > (revolutions per mile). In other words changing from 65 to 60 height
                  > aspect and increasing from 185 to 195 tread section width does very
                  > litte to change how many times the tire turn per mile.

                  Yes, the tire manufacturers "rubber" their sizes so the above works.
                  Attempts to calculate tire circumference with math based on numerical
                  size will only produce an approximate answer, possibly off by one entire
                  size.

                  > I tried to order 205/55HR15 tires from Tire Rack and they gave me a
                  > call...it flagged the system as a no fit, and they just wanted to
                  > confirm. Tire too wide...the 195's rub at lock when the front
                  > suspension is bottomed (entering driveway). The 205s would have torn
                  > something up.

                  Good for Tire Rack!

                  --
                  David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                  ========================================================================
                  Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                • Gary Novosielski
                  ... The dry nature of N2 is, in fact, its ONLY advantage over air. But at any speed below racetrack extremes, I would be surprised to see any measurable
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 5/31/07, Spidy <mlspidy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I use N2 in my tires (get it for free) they do seem to run cooler. I
                    > noticed much less of a pressure change form cold to hot with N2.
                    > I think this because there is no moisture in the N2, where as air
                    > compressors condensate water into the air as it is being compressed.


                    The dry nature of N2 is, in fact, its ONLY advantage over air. But at any
                    speed below racetrack extremes, I would be surprised to see any measurable
                    difference.


                    Also since N2 is pure the tires don't rot at least from the inside.


                    Have you ever seen a tire that rotted from the inside? Me neither.


                    N2 is a smaller molecule if you have a slow leak it will leak out faster.


                    Umm, smaller? By what measure? The bond length is slightly longer in N2
                    than it is in O2. The covalent radius in an N2 modecule is 0.75 Angstroms,
                    and in an O2 molecule it's 0.73 Angstroms.


                    However if it wasn't free I would use air too.


                    Exactly.


                    =Gary


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Peter Blackford
                    so, how does one completely evacuate a tire so that 100% of the inflating gas is N2? answer: it s not practical to do, so one NEVER has pure N2 in their
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      so, how does one completely evacuate a tire so that 100% of the inflating gas is N2?

                      answer: it's not practical to do, so one NEVER has 'pure' N2 in their tires anyway

                      -----Original Message-----
                      >From: Gary Novosielski <gary.novosielski@...>
                      >Sent: Jun 2, 2007 5:39 PM
                      >To:
                      >Cc: toyota-prius@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [toyota-prius] Re: replacement tire question
                      >
                      >On 5/31/07, Spidy <mlspidy@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> I use N2 in my tires (get it for free) they do seem to run cooler. I
                      >> noticed much less of a pressure change form cold to hot with N2.
                      >> I think this because there is no moisture in the N2, where as air
                      >> compressors condensate water into the air as it is being compressed.
                      >
                      >
                      >The dry nature of N2 is, in fact, its ONLY advantage over air. But at any
                      >speed below racetrack extremes, I would be surprised to see any measurable
                      >difference.
                      >
                      >
                      >Also since N2 is pure the tires don't rot at least from the inside.
                      >
                      >
                      >Have you ever seen a tire that rotted from the inside? Me neither.
                      >
                      >
                      >N2 is a smaller molecule if you have a slow leak it will leak out faster.
                      >
                      >
                      >Umm, smaller? By what measure? The bond length is slightly longer in N2
                      >than it is in O2. The covalent radius in an N2 modecule is 0.75 Angstroms,
                      >and in an O2 molecule it's 0.73 Angstroms.
                      >
                      >
                      >However if it wasn't free I would use air too.
                      >
                      >
                      >Exactly.
                      >
                      >
                      >=Gary
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >To access group's website features such as Files, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                      >, Photos, Links, Database and Polls, go to
                      >http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.