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Re: [torchwood] Jack / Ianto thoughts

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  • John R. Clark IV
    for a song: secret lovers lol, they did a great spoof of it with frodo and sam John debrabant_foundation wrote: I was
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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      for a song: secret lovers lol, they did a great spoof of it with frodo and sam

      John

      debrabant_foundation <debrabant_foundation@...> wrote:
      I was thinking... I haven't watched all the eps yet (had some
      distractions)
      But... other than the "mouth to mouth" Jack gives Ianto in Cyberwoman,
      is there any other on screen indications of anything going on between
      them until the end of They Keep Killing Suzie? Ianto still seems quite
      shaken up in Countrycide and he isn't really in Small World too much
      (cept when both he and Jack find each other at the Hub at night, but
      neither seems to be expecting the other to be there)
      I didn't see anything. So it seems to just come out of nowhere.

      Did I miss something. We go from Ianto clearly being in love with Lisa
      (that was her name, right?) in Cyberwoman, to him making a not-so-
      clearly veiled proposition to Jack at the end of They Keep Killing
      Suzie.

      I know I probably missed something. I would love to see the character
      of Ianto explored a bit more. He really intrigues me. Any thoughts?

      Oh, and on that note... I am working on a video for Ianto and I can't
      seem to come up with a song. Any ideas?

      Thanks!
      -Amanda






      "Mayan" proverb: You are the owner of what you keep in silence and the slave of what you speak.






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    • John R. Clark IV
      or beautiful byjames blunt, it sorta fits, love unrequitted J debrabant_foundation wrote: I was thinking... I haven t
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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        or "beautiful" byjames blunt, it sorta fits, love unrequitted

        J

        debrabant_foundation <debrabant_foundation@...> wrote:
        I was thinking... I haven't watched all the eps yet (had some
        distractions)
        But... other than the "mouth to mouth" Jack gives Ianto in Cyberwoman,
        is there any other on screen indications of anything going on between
        them until the end of They Keep Killing Suzie? Ianto still seems quite
        shaken up in Countrycide and he isn't really in Small World too much
        (cept when both he and Jack find each other at the Hub at night, but
        neither seems to be expecting the other to be there)
        I didn't see anything. So it seems to just come out of nowhere.

        Did I miss something. We go from Ianto clearly being in love with Lisa
        (that was her name, right?) in Cyberwoman, to him making a not-so-
        clearly veiled proposition to Jack at the end of They Keep Killing
        Suzie.

        I know I probably missed something. I would love to see the character
        of Ianto explored a bit more. He really intrigues me. Any thoughts?

        Oh, and on that note... I am working on a video for Ianto and I can't
        seem to come up with a song. Any ideas?

        Thanks!
        -Amanda






        "Mayan" proverb: You are the owner of what you keep in silence and the slave of what you speak.






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      • Elizabeth Holden
        ... Nothing clear. It s my belief and contention that when they get together at the end of They Keep Killing Suzie , it s the first time - that in fact,
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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          Amanda asked:

          > But... other than the "mouth to mouth" Jack gives
          > Ianto in Cyberwoman,
          > is there any other on screen indications of anything
          > going on between them until the end of They
          > Keep Killing Suzie?

          Nothing clear. It's my belief and contention that
          when they get together at the end of "They Keep
          Killing Suzie", it's the first time - that in fact,
          Jack was surprised (though pleased) when Ianto
          propositioned him then.

          On watching a second time, though, I thought I could
          see a clear progression of their relationship, a whole
          subtle story that is not spelled out but is still
          there. Growing affection and mutual reliance based on
          Ianto's desire to prove himself trustworthy, and his
          neediness, and Jack paying attention to his feelings.

          The scene that I felt made me understand was the one -
          I think at the end of "Cyberwoman" - when Ianto looks
          up at Jack (sorrowfully? apologetically?) and Jack
          nods. I couldn't figure out what that meant the first
          time through.

          After having seen "End of Days" I thought it an easy
          interpretation: Ianto realizes Jack was right and
          acknowledges that, Jack forgives him for being wrong
          because he really does understand, and they establish
          a more trusting relationship - in which Jack, partly
          by being kind, partly by just not making an issue of
          the "Cyberwoman" fiasco, helps Ianto to heal from his
          grief. Leading to stronger (though perhaps sometimes
          conflicting) feelings on Ianto's part.

          > I thought, though, when Ianto still seems quite
          > shaken up in Countrycide

          I think he's still 'shaken up' about Lisa at the end
          of "End of Days". He's still grieving over her loss -
          still upset to see her when he gets the
          visitation/vision of her c/o Bilis. In "Countricide",
          I think Ianto is working out what he feels and thinks
          about Jack, Lisa, and life in general.

          I think Ianto loves Jack and that Jack has had a good
          (comforting) influence on him, but that the pain of
          what happened to Lisa was too deep to just go away
          quickly. Some days are probably easier for him than
          others.

          > I didn't see anything. So it seems to just come out
          > of nowhere.

          No, not really, though I think the writers did want us
          to be somewhat surprised when it happened.

          > We go from Ianto clearly being in love with Lisa
          > (that was her name, right?) in Cyberwoman, to him
          > making a not-so-clearly veiled proposition to
          > Jack at the end of They Keep Killing Suzie.

          I don't think you missed overt clues, but there are a
          few subtle hints. Like the time Jack touches Ianto's
          shoulder.

          > I would love to see the character
          > of Ianto explored a bit more. He really intrigues
          > me. Any thoughts?

          Oh, many!

          One thought is that Ianto brings out Jack's nurturing
          and healing side. I think his whole team does that,
          but Ianto most of all. Reasons? Ianto's emotional
          pain; his vulnerability; the fact that Jack (clearly)
          has thought he was cute from the beginning.

          Another thought is that it might be easier for Ianto
          to love Jack after Lisa because he is so very
          different from her in just about every way - being
          white, male, and mysterious. And also because the
          relationship isn't in any way domestic, as it was with
          Lisa. And there is no possibility that Ianto would
          have to 'take care of' Jack the way he had to take
          care of Lisa for so long.

          It also coincides with Ianto's strong love of duty and
          service. I think when he says "Jack needs me" to Owen
          he really means it and it reveals a lot about himself
          -Ianto needs to be needed, whether by someone like
          Lisa (helplessly trapped in a machine, or by a
          machine) or someone like Jack (who is strong, but
          lonely and isolated and sometimes distracted).

          > Oh, and on that note... I am working on a video for
          > Ianto and I can't
          > seem to come up with a song. Any ideas?

          The music vids I most love are the ones that use John
          Barrowman songs, especially the Cole Porter CD. I
          wish he'd recorded "I Get a Kick Out of You" - I think
          that one would be terrific for Jack, especially the
          verse:

          I get no kick from Champagne
          Mere alchohol doesn't thrill me at all
          so tell me why should it be true
          that i get a kick
          out of you

          But then there's "Night and Day", "Under My Skin", and
          - maybe my favourite - "You'd be so nice to come home
          to". (Which I believe Porter wrote for a boyfriend,
          so it seems particularly apropos.) Then there's "Night
          and Day" from "De-Lovely".

          From "Reflections from Broadway", "Being Alive" might
          be a good choice.

          Just my personal wish list, going along with "I wish I
          could make music vids, but I can't, so isn't it
          wonderful that other people can do it for me?"

          namaste,
          Elizabeth
        • Elizabeth Holden
          ... Now, that would be a lot of fun! Good thought. namaste, Elizabeth
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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            --- "John R. Clark IV" <chule_balam@...> wrote:

            > for a song: secret lovers lol,

            Now, that would be a lot of fun! Good thought.

            namaste,
            Elizabeth
          • debrabant_foundation
            ... Thanks for the thoughts on Ianto... I really like his character. Hmmmm, good idea. I have John s Cole Porter CD... I have to look into that and see if
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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              --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Holden <azurite@...> wrote:

              > The music vids I most love are the ones that use John
              > Barrowman songs, especially the Cole Porter CD. I
              > wish he'd recorded "I Get a Kick Out of You" - I think
              > that one would be terrific for Jack, especially the
              > verse:

              Thanks for the thoughts on Ianto... I really like his character.

              Hmmmm, good idea. I have John's Cole Porter CD... I have to look into
              that and see if anything fits with the video clips I have.

              Guess what I'm doing tonight? ;-) (I am actually working on another
              Jack vid now that I have Doctor Who too.)

              -Amanda
            • donutsweeps
              ... Cyberwoman, ... between ... quite ... much ... but ... I had always wondered that as well. There is the slightest hint that they have something from the
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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                --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "debrabant_foundation"
                <debrabant_foundation@...> wrote:
                >
                > I was thinking... I haven't watched all the eps yet (had some
                > distractions)
                > But... other than the "mouth to mouth" Jack gives Ianto in
                Cyberwoman,
                > is there any other on screen indications of anything going on
                between
                > them until the end of They Keep Killing Suzie? Ianto still seems
                quite
                > shaken up in Countrycide and he isn't really in Small World too
                much
                > (cept when both he and Jack find each other at the Hub at night,
                but
                > neither seems to be expecting the other to be there)
                > I didn't see anything. So it seems to just come out of nowhere.
                >
                I had always wondered that as well. There is the slightest hint
                that they have something from the very beginning, when Jack
                introduces Ianto to Gwen when he says "and he looks good in a suit"
                to which Ianto replies (with a smile) "Careful, that's harassment
                sir." But there is an easy banter, a teasing way about it...
                then in the second episode when they are all discussing Jack's sex
                life over chinese food, Tosh says Owen think's Jack is gay, but she
                thinks he'll shag anything thats gorgeous and Ianto says "And I
                don't care" very quickly, almost too quickly.
                Obviously in both those scenes he still has Lisa, so is probably not
                involved with Jack in anyway but maybe it implies the undertones are
                there.

                > Did I miss something. We go from Ianto clearly being in love with
                Lisa
                > (that was her name, right?) in Cyberwoman, to him making a not-so-
                > clearly veiled proposition to Jack at the end of They Keep Killing
                > Suzie.
                >
                > I know I probably missed something. I would love to see the
                character
                > of Ianto explored a bit more. He really intrigues me. Any
                thoughts?
                >
                The only other thing I can think of is in "Cyberwoman" when Jack is
                trying to raise Ianto over the comms and says something about
                wanting to hear Ianto's lovely Welch vowels or something like that,
                it could be taken jokeingly, or perhaps alluding to something else.
                But, Jack seemed happily suprised by Ianto's suggestion at the end
                of "They keep killing Susie" so I don't think you (or I) missed any
                overt clues regarding the relationship between Jack and Ianto.
                And I agree, I'd love to see Ianto more, he barely appears in a lot
                of the episodes
                > Oh, and on that note... I am working on a video for Ianto and I
                can't
                > seem to come up with a song. Any ideas?
                >
                > Thanks!
                > -Amanda
                >
              • Elizabeth Holden
                ... Flirting. I take it that Jack has been casually flirting with Ianto all along, Ianto has been enjoying it without taking it seriously. ... I always like
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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                  --- donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:

                  > There is the slightest hint
                  > that they have something from the very beginning,
                  > when Jack introduces Ianto to Gwen when he says
                  > "and he looks good in a suit"
                  > to which Ianto replies (with a smile) "Careful,
                  > that's harassment sir."

                  Flirting. I take it that Jack has been casually
                  flirting with Ianto all along, Ianto has been enjoying
                  it without taking it seriously.

                  > Jack is trying to raise Ianto over the comms and
                  > says something about
                  > wanting to hear Ianto's lovely Welch vowels or
                  > something like that, it could be taken jokeingly,

                  I always like that line because I love Ianto's accent
                  too. I put that down to more flirting on Jack's part
                  - he is *just beginning* to think something's wrong in
                  the Hub and is keeping it light because he's starting
                  to worry.

                  > And I agree, I'd love to see Ianto more, he barely
                  > appears in a lot of the episodes

                  I watched one episode with a friend who'd never seen
                  the show and she asked me, "Does Ianto ever get to
                  speak?" That was in "Combat", where I thought he had
                  more lines than usual!

                  So what is Ianto's best line? I rather like "Of
                  course, bananas are far more interesting," but he does
                  have some other lovely ones. Hmm. No, I retract that,
                  I think my favourite might be "gloves come in pairs".
                  And the classic: "I still have my stopwatch."

                  namaste,
                  Elizabeth
                • Elizabeth Holden
                  ... I do too. We don t get to know him very well but I love his formal manner combined with his cute sense of humour. And those great Welsh vowels. I loved
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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                    Amanda said:

                    > Thanks for the thoughts on Ianto... I really like
                    > his character.

                    I do too. We don't get to know him very well but I
                    love his formal manner combined with his cute sense of
                    humour. And those great Welsh vowels. I loved
                    "Cyberwoman" as an episode but I think it was
                    "Countricide" where I really came to love Ianto as
                    both a man and a hero.

                    > Hmmmm, good idea. I have John's Cole Porter CD... I
                    > have to look into
                    > that and see if anything fits with the video clips I
                    > have.

                    Yes!

                    > Guess what I'm doing tonight? ;-)

                    May the force be with you.

                    >(I am actually working on another
                    > Jack vid now that I have Doctor Who too.)

                    Oh, cool! (Jack/Doctor is my favourite pairing.)

                    namaste,
                    Elizabeth
                  • Jackie Moleski
                    ... I have several ideas for *Doctor Who* vids (both classic and new series clips). I m hoping to get some help from my cousin to put them together (not to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 1, 2007
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                      debrabant_foundation wrote:

                      > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > Elizabeth Holden <azurite@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > The music vids I most love are the ones that use John
                      > > Barrowman songs, especially the Cole Porter CD. I
                      > > wish he'd recorded "I Get a Kick Out of You" - I think
                      > > that one would be terrific for Jack, especially the
                      > > verse:
                      >
                      > Thanks for the thoughts on Ianto... I really like his character.
                      >
                      > Hmmmm, good idea. I have John's Cole Porter CD... I have to look into
                      > that and see if anything fits with the video clips I have.
                      >
                      > Guess what I'm doing tonight? ;-) (I am actually working on another
                      > Jack vid now that I have Doctor Who too.)
                      >
                      > -Amanda
                      >
                      > __.I have

















                      I have several ideas for *Doctor Who* vids (both classic and new series
                      clips). I'm hoping to get some help from my cousin to put them together
                      (not to mention how I'll upload them to the net!).

                      But some ideas I have are:

                      Song title: "Slime Creatures from Outer Space"
                      Artist: Weird Al Yankovic
                      vid style: funny
                      Comments: Come on, with lyrics like "things just haven't been the same,
                      since the flying saucers came" and "They were fuzzy, they were mean,
                      biggest heads I've ever seen". It's a natural.
                      Years and years ago, I thought this song would be fun for an *X-files*
                      vid, but it's even more appropriate for *DW*.

                      Song title: Baby Grand
                      Artist: Billy Joel & Ray Charles
                      vid style: serious but not angsty
                      Comments: Who (or what) is the ONE constant in the Doctor's life? What
                      he's *always* relied on? Why the TARDIS of course. So I'd like to take
                      the Joel/Charles duet about a piano being the love of their lives and
                      use it for DW.
                      By the bye-- anyone who can *remember* good TARDIS scenes, feel free to
                      e-mail me on or off list. I plan on using McCoy's scene in the McGann
                      movie, as well as other scenes (both interiors and exteriors) but I'm
                      having a hard time remembering specific episodes.
                      Two scenes I'm looking for-- Davison standing behind the console,
                      nothing happens, he hits the console with his hand, and THEN it starts
                      going up and down. I definately remember it, but I can't figure out the
                      ep. And the Colin Baker ep where we find out the TARDIS has seat belts
                      (he and Peri hook-up to the console using something that looks like a
                      bungee cord).

                      So-- good ideas?

                      Thanks,

                      --Jackie

                      >
                      >
                      >




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