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Re : [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'pos sible' but it won't be for a whi...

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  • JoAnne Briere
    I wasn t going into those discusssion as too many times, I ve heard why are you around if you dislike it so much?   Well things are I love TW - with a team.
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 11 9:26 AM
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      I wasn't going into those discusssion as too many times, I've heard "why are you around if you dislike it so much?"
       
      Well things are I love TW - with a team. I could dislike and dismiss all about Gwen, because there was enough of everyone else around, to find pleasure in TW. I never like her, found her to not be a good female role model at all. I could never befriend someone like Gwen, sleeping around, hurting people, not thinking nor stepping back. Judging harschly others, refusing to have anything said remotely true about her.
       
      Tosh, Owen, Ianto made up enough air time, to make the serie challenging, interesting and flawed.
       
      The writer created his characters, loved some, hated some; it's his priviledge. It's mine to agree, disagree.
      COE was not TW - it was a story in his folder, he wanted it out, and it put some of the TW people in it , throughtout. It gave a chance for Ianto to show his brain and action, for Rhys to be smarter than his wife, yet as cluelss at that. But the story was something else, in which he interspeded some bits of.
       
      Jack kept changing, too fast for reality. Long life doesn't mean the man can adapt quickly to all situation, actually it would be the opposition.
       
      Anyway, I won't be around for more TW - as MD was really the end of the line for me. Does it mean I should reminisce and talk about the way it was and it attracted us.
       
      Johanne

      De : psionycx <dsyrek@...>
      À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
      Envoyé le : mercredi 11 avril 2012 11h20
      Objet : [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for a whi...

      Tosh had TONS of potential! The problem was (aside from RTD's whole All-About-Eve thing) was that as the show progressed they seemed to be aiming for the lowest intellectual factor.

      Consider: the Jack that we first had in Doctor Who was REALLY smart. Smart enough to crosswire the "pan-dimensional surfboard", a piece of amazingly advanced technology, into the console of the TARDIS, a piece of technology more advanced than anything that humans will EVER build in the Whoniverse!

      Yet over the course of the show, it seems as if Jack's overall intelligence drops every time he dies and his resurrected. This seems to be meant to make him less geeky and more of a stock action guy who just has occasional flashes of brilliance (usually when it's too late to be useful).

      Tosh had the same problem as compared to Gwen. Other than nagging and an increasing proficiency with firearms (remember that she had none when she started) Gwen was almost terminally stupid (didn't know what a GPS was!), but loved to run around and get into scraps. Tosh was far too prone to thinking logically and approaching alien threats as a scientific problem. Kind of the way the Doctor taught UNIT to do during his tenure with them. There's a reason why a physician/xenologist like Martha quickly rose in the UNIT ranks.

      Back at Torchwood, rank is a function of bluster it seems. Tosh lacked this trait. She was more oriented towards applying knowledge to any situation. RTD's love affair with the geeky seemed to have been brief. Could Tosh have made a much more exciting character, and possible leader? Absolutely! Martha demonstrated the merits of the smart action girl. The science heroine who has brains instead of just bombast.

      Perhaps Tosh just wasn't Sarah Palin enough. Being good with a gun and uninterested in thinking seems to be a virtue in these troubled times. Tosh was (IMHO) prettier than Gwen (if only they had dressed her better) WAY smarter and had WAAAAAYYY more potential as a character.

      --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "sem" <catz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Frankly, even though she came across as mousy, I thought Tosh became the
      > strongest female character at the end. I can't see Gwen doing what Tosh did.
      > Even the way Tosh came into Torchwood was pretty impressive, even though she
      > was trying to save her mother. And of course spending who knows how long in
      > that empty jail cell.
      >
      > And she was brave and very smart. In the episode where they're in WWII, she
      > saved the day with a lot of guts and street smarts. And towards the end,
      > with Owen, well... there's never a dry eye when I watch that. She was
      > terrific.
      >
      > Just my 2 cents (or pence or whatever).
      >
      > Catzy
      >
      >




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    • JoAnne Briere
      I though Gareth David-Lloyd was an interesting actor; with good lines and decent storytelling, I think as an actor he could go place.     De : pfyre
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 11 10:57 AM
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        I though Gareth David-Lloyd was an interesting actor; with good lines and decent storytelling, I think as an actor he could go place.
         
         

        De : pfyre <oshaun@...>
        À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
        Envoyé le : lundi 9 avril 2012 23h53
        Objet : Re: [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for a whi...

        Actually what Ianto lacked was RTD's complete and utter infatuation with
        Eve Myles.

        pfyre

        /A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though
        he knows that you are slightly cracked. /Robert Meltzer


        On 4/9/2012 8:49 PM, psionycx wrote:
        > Sadly, Jack probably would have done better with his boyfriend as a moral compass. But that relationship fell because poor Ianto lacked Gwen's impregnable plot armour.


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      • JoAnne Briere
        I wholeheartely agree with this post.   Johanne De : psionycx À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : lundi 9 avril 2012 21h26
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 11 11:16 AM
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          I wholeheartely agree with this post.
           
          Johanne

          De : psionycx <dsyrek@...>
          À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
          Envoyé le : lundi 9 avril 2012 21h26
          Objet : [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for a whi...

          I was going back to your original post about how Jack's immortality made him a "superhero", and technically he wasn't immortal for most of MD, which meant that what he really needed was someone to keep his *** alive!

          But going back to your point, other than plot armor that keeps her alive after everyone else has died, Gwen offers nothing especially unique in terms of balancing out Jack's personality. Indeed, if anything she literally demonstrated on "Day One" that she is reckless to the point of being a menace herself. No wonder the police seemed to prefer keeping her on the far side of the tape at crime scenes! The threat of site contamination should she decide to throw something at a snarky co-worker was just too high! Her little attempt to discipline Owen for disrespecting her cost how many lives?

          What made her a "natural leader"? She was serving coffee at the police station and getting knocked about trying to break up pub brawls! Again, this is what made her such an implausible character who got by purely on producer love.

          Despite her supposed role, Gwen was as much a source of trouble as anything else. Oh, and who was it who had to go charging off and spill everything about Torchwood to Dr. (double-agent) Patanjali? Oh, right, that would be Gwen! Because her "natural leadership" skills routinely cause her to dive in face-first without considering the ramifications of anything she does!

          As I also mentioned in another post, Jack didn't really need a moral compass. He was in fact doing fairly well. He also was not lacking in human emotion, since all his stories involved him being angsty over something or another.

          If anything it was Gwen, not Jack, who was the loose cannon of Torchwood.


          --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, dizzheart@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >

          >


          > ??? Not after COE, there aren't.  Even  before that, Jack and Gwen, who are
          > natural leaders, were the de facto heads  of the team.

          > Janice
          >
          >
          >





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