Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for a while, say bosses

Expand Messages
  • pfyre
    You re preaching to the choir. Unfortunately we are not the choir director nor the series creator. All through the series Gwen has demeaned and belittled Jack
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 8, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      You're preaching to the choir. Unfortunately we are not the choir
      director nor the series creator.

      All through the series Gwen has demeaned and belittled Jack and his
      abilities and accomplishments in order to prove that SHE's the best one
      for the job. She asked the 'stupid questions' sure but she also
      undermined Jack's authority at every turn.

      pfyre

      /A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though
      he knows that you are slightly cracked. /Robert Meltzer


      On 4/8/2012 12:26 PM, John wrote:
      > Jack is Torchwood, he pulled Gwen into the fold, not the other way around.
      > Supporting characters are there to support, not take over and demean the
      > leader of the team at every turn.
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: Lori
      > Date: 4/8/2012 12:21:25 PM
      > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [torchwood] Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for
      > a while, say bosses
      >
      >
      > I completely agree with you Pfyre. I have become so tired of Gwen always
      > blaming Jack for everything. When does she take responsibility for anything?
      > She's always turning things around and blaming everyone else but herself.
      > RTD has said she's the heart& soul of TW...really? Never been that to me.
      > Just always been a pain in the behind most of the time.
      >
      > While I'd like to see more Torchwood, I kind of feel it's run its course to
      > be honest with you. If we do see anything else it'll probably be a
      > mini-series type of story. I for one won't be upset; heartbroken if we don't
      > have any more Torchwood. I've watched it all and TWMD was the end of the
      > story for me. (while I know COE was the end for most everyone else)
      >
      > Lori
      >
      > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, pfyre<oshaun@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Well, from comments from many parts of Torchwood and Doctor Who fandom
      >> along with those 'in the know' - RTD has never been all *that* enamoured
      >> with Jack [or John for that matter]. RTD was and from all reports
      >> remains enamoured with Eve Myles. He wrote a series specifically geared
      >> as a 'star vehicle' for EM. Unfortunately for RTD TPTB at BBC did not
      >> know of EM or cared little for what they were aware of her. So with that
      >> in mind RTD tooled 'Torchwood' - to star John Barrowman's wildly popular
      >> Captain Jack Harkness. AND just happened to cast EM as Gwen Cooper -
      >> secondary lead. He then proceeded 'to sell' everyone from EM to John to
      >> TPTB at the Beeb with the idea that Gwen was 'the heart of Torchwood'
      >> and that as the 'eyes and ears' of the audience she could ask the
      >> 'stupid questions' while at the same time reminding the members of
      >> Torchwood and the immortal Jack Harkness of just what it means to be
      >> human. *cough cough cough* He writes and pushes the rest of the writers
      >> or edits the scripts to emphasize Gwen [EM] and of course makes her
      >> irresistible to virtually every man the stories encounter AND makes
      >> certain that Jack is over-his-head enamoured with her as well.
      >>
      >> Unfortunately with RTD's blind love of EM and the character he's created
      >> for her, he's many times all but destroyed Jack in order to highlight
      >> Gwen. RTD doesn't give a damn about Captain Jack Harkness [even if a
      >> huge majority of the audience for the show originally tuned in and
      >> continued to tune-in because of John's Capt Jack].
      >>
      >> pfyre
      >>
      >> /A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though
      >> he knows that you are slightly cracked. /Robert Meltzer
      >>
      >>
      >> On 4/8/2012 4:32 AM, psionycx wrote:
      >>
      >>> But I have to say that for me the biggest disappointment was Jack (and also what convinced me that RTD just started hating him and wanted to
      >>> deconstruct him).
      >
    • psionycx
      Thank you! You raise some really excellent points about Jack by the way. The glaring absence of UNIT left me with a mental image of the Valiant flying off with
      Message 31 of 31 , Apr 9, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you! You raise some really excellent points about Jack by the way.

        The glaring absence of UNIT left me with a mental image of the Valiant flying off with "Just Married" banners streaming behind it and all UNIT personal gathering on some island with all communication frequencies jammed. Out-of-office auto replies leaving no clue as to where they had gone! XD

        Actually, at no point was Gwen really more genuinely moral than anyone else in the Hub. In "End of Days" Gwen was at the front of the line to do something absurdly dangerous (i.e. open the Rift) in order to save her boyfriend. Plus, after having a more-than-one-time affair with Owen she confessed to Rhys, purely because she selfishly wanted his forgiveness, but had proactively Retconned him so that no matter whether he did or not he would not remember her confession.

        The real clincher was in "Adrift" here she appears to show empathy (except to Andy). But in reality she is just out to prove Jack wrong. It turns out that he cares enough to see to the care of those Rift victims that come back too badly damaged to just be Retconned and returned to society. Gwen just second-guesses him and is surprised that the result was not what she hoped for.

        I agree with others here who have noted that RTD really seems to have tried to turn Torchwood into a vehicle for Eve Myles's career even if it meant driving said vehicle off of a cliff.

        Also, why drown Jack in so much angst if he is lacking in human feelings? Pretty much ALL of his stories, with or without Gwen, are about his emotions, regrets, lost loves, etc... By the time we get to MD Jack is just a plain woobie whose sole purpose is to highlight how quickly Gwen morphed into a superior action girl!



        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "sem" <catz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Loved this email. Reminded me of a lot of things I'd conveniently forgotten,
        > but you almost have to do this in the Whoniverse.
        >
        > However, this sentence:
        >
        > "Maybe the world too, since Martha seemed to have taken the whole of UNIT
        > along on her honeymoon such that they were studiously unavailable."
        >
        > Made me spit coffee out of my nose I was laughing so hard.
        >
        > I also have a real problem with Gwen needing to remind Jack of the "human"
        > aspect in TW. For all intents and purposes, he is/was human (even tho not of
        > earth), and spent all his time after meeting the Doctor trying to help
        > humans as well as others ("Meat" comes to mind.). What does he need
        > reminding of? He fought in the wars! Hell, he WANTS to be mortal again. OK,
        > end of rant. I'm just really annoyed that TW is no more. The tag team of DW
        > and TW were real highlights of my tv-watching for a few years. It seemed
        > completely logical that such a highly rated (and loved) show would continue.
        > Silly me.
        >
        > Catzy
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.