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Re: New Torchwood series 'possible' but it won't be for a while, say bosses

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  • psionycx
    The problem is, as I noted earlier, that CoE was very blatantly written as a separate mini-series with Torchwood just tacked on. Let us not forget that
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 8, 2012
      The problem is, as I noted earlier, that CoE was very blatantly written as a separate mini-series with Torchwood just tacked on. Let us not forget that Torchwood is in the Whoniverse.

      Ooooooo{{{{spoooky}}}} look at all those children saying "We are coming" in perfect unison. Mass mind control. How terrifying and unprecedented....oh, wait, sorry...the Sycorax already did that a couple Christmas's back. Drat! Not again!

      So herein we have the problem. Should they be cowering in terror? Not really. The Doctor routinely wrangles bigger threats every time Decembers comes round.

      Then we have an inexplicably panicking government. The last time the 456 and the British Government cut a dirty deal was 44 years ago. To put that in perspective, current British Prime Minister David Cameron had not even been born yet! Few, if any, people who were in government during the 456's 1965 visit are probably still employed there, and if so then 44 years past most would have been in trivial roles. So it would not be as if the current government has much dirty laundry to worry about. This would be multiple governments in the past and the current government could simply sniff indignation rather than accept any culpability.

      Then there is Torchwood. Ah, lovely Torchwood. They don't fit the story well at all, and this is how you can tell it was not originally written to be a Torchwood story. You see, Torchwood's entire mission is to counter alien threats. At least to the U.K. Maybe the world too, since Martha seemed to have taken the whole of UNIT along on her honeymoon such that they were studiously unavailable.

      But what sane individual would not only try to hunt down and kill their premier experts on alien invasions, on the eve of an alien invasion? Just to make it worse, they blow up the Torchwood Hub, packed to the rafters with handy alien technology and weapons that might be useful for dealing with the situation!

      Neville Chamberlain gets a bad rep for his handling of the Nazi threat. But this government puts him to shame, not only effectively surrendering but proactively destroying their own defensive capability for reasons that were never really clear!

      But I have to say that for me the biggest disappointment was Jack (and also what convinced me that RTD just started hating him and wanted to deconstruct him). We had two series worth of Jack repeating "Torchwood will be ready". Was he ready? Hmmm? No? Not even a teensy little bit? I mean, it was only an alien menace that he saw 44 years prior. Did he just file it away in the dustbin because he preferred to spend time Weevil hunting in the sewers?

      Did he have any contingency plans for the loss of the Hub? No. Any caches of hidden weapons/supplies elsewhere? No. Heck, did he even have a human resources management plan that factored in Torchwood's high mortality rate and the fact that they might need more staff ready to pick up slack? No.

      Bugger!

      Somehow, despite the whole not-aging thing, I am left feeling that Torchwood Jack is far less bright than Doctor Who Jack. Our beloved Time Agent/Con Artist would have had more angles. Torchwood Jack acts like an elderly, tired, bureaucrat that doesn't want the unexpected across his desk.

      It was the taking of a very dynamic team and reducing them to their lowest values. It was nauseating. Nor has it gotten better. If anything in the new-style Torchwood, Jack is just a senile old curmudgeon in a young man's body, doddering around surprised at the fruits of all his past mistakes. Gwen has become a stock action girl. but without the good teeth that are usually part of the job. Plus now they pick up random ***holes and call it a "team". Bollocks!

      Nope. Stick a fork in it. It's done.

      --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "badblokebob" <richard@...> wrote:
      >
      > While I agree CoE ignored Torchwood's former "outside the government, beyond the police" stuff too easily, it felt more like a tweak than a complete betrayal to me, and the story was head and shoulders above anything in seasons 1 & 2 (both of which I largely enjoyed, incidentally).
      >
      > At the end of the day, I'd rather have writers focussed on telling a great story that may necessitate playing a little loose with previous continuity, rather than slavishly making sure everything fits and not focussing where they should. (Naturally the ideal is to uphold both.)
      >
      >
      > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Daren :\)" <twoshedsluxuryyacht@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've noticed a lot of people mention that they liked COE and not season 1 and 2 and wished MD was more like COE
      > >
      > > COE had me peppering the screen of my TV with popcorn at how easilly the whole back story of Torchwood was dismissed so quickly The Torchwood Institute was always portrayed as a powerful agency able to negate any form of government authority I took it to mean that the Royal Authority it worked under trumped all other powers yet in COE we saw a backroom functionary able to completely decapitate the Torchwood Institute with the team on the run with no one and no where to run too
      > >
      > > What happened to all those secret warehouses of Alien goodies they had squirreled away all over the country leaving them with little more than a pair of contact Lenses
      > >
      > > I was really hanging my head in shame over that one and MD Don't get me started
      > >
      > > So the question is if everyone wants Torchwood to return in what form do they want it to be in ? Back in it's old Glory being sneaky and all powerful fighting Alien threats
      > > Impotent and on the run like in COE or as a defacto arm of the CIA with the odd cameo from Jack fighting Corporate Greed ????
      > >
      > > I've made my choice
      > >
      > > Daren
      > >
      >
    • psionycx
      Thank you! You raise some really excellent points about Jack by the way. The glaring absence of UNIT left me with a mental image of the Valiant flying off with
      Message 31 of 31 , Apr 9, 2012
        Thank you! You raise some really excellent points about Jack by the way.

        The glaring absence of UNIT left me with a mental image of the Valiant flying off with "Just Married" banners streaming behind it and all UNIT personal gathering on some island with all communication frequencies jammed. Out-of-office auto replies leaving no clue as to where they had gone! XD

        Actually, at no point was Gwen really more genuinely moral than anyone else in the Hub. In "End of Days" Gwen was at the front of the line to do something absurdly dangerous (i.e. open the Rift) in order to save her boyfriend. Plus, after having a more-than-one-time affair with Owen she confessed to Rhys, purely because she selfishly wanted his forgiveness, but had proactively Retconned him so that no matter whether he did or not he would not remember her confession.

        The real clincher was in "Adrift" here she appears to show empathy (except to Andy). But in reality she is just out to prove Jack wrong. It turns out that he cares enough to see to the care of those Rift victims that come back too badly damaged to just be Retconned and returned to society. Gwen just second-guesses him and is surprised that the result was not what she hoped for.

        I agree with others here who have noted that RTD really seems to have tried to turn Torchwood into a vehicle for Eve Myles's career even if it meant driving said vehicle off of a cliff.

        Also, why drown Jack in so much angst if he is lacking in human feelings? Pretty much ALL of his stories, with or without Gwen, are about his emotions, regrets, lost loves, etc... By the time we get to MD Jack is just a plain woobie whose sole purpose is to highlight how quickly Gwen morphed into a superior action girl!



        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "sem" <catz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Loved this email. Reminded me of a lot of things I'd conveniently forgotten,
        > but you almost have to do this in the Whoniverse.
        >
        > However, this sentence:
        >
        > "Maybe the world too, since Martha seemed to have taken the whole of UNIT
        > along on her honeymoon such that they were studiously unavailable."
        >
        > Made me spit coffee out of my nose I was laughing so hard.
        >
        > I also have a real problem with Gwen needing to remind Jack of the "human"
        > aspect in TW. For all intents and purposes, he is/was human (even tho not of
        > earth), and spent all his time after meeting the Doctor trying to help
        > humans as well as others ("Meat" comes to mind.). What does he need
        > reminding of? He fought in the wars! Hell, he WANTS to be mortal again. OK,
        > end of rant. I'm just really annoyed that TW is no more. The tag team of DW
        > and TW were real highlights of my tv-watching for a few years. It seemed
        > completely logical that such a highly rated (and loved) show would continue.
        > Silly me.
        >
        > Catzy
        >
        >
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