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Re: [torchwood] Drugs and more drugs

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  • pfyre
    ... in the interview clip Jack watched just before going to confront Oswald - Oswald talked about he was being swept up in a tide of forgiveness - it was a
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 25, 2011
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      At 05:24 PM 7/25/2011, JoAnne Briere, annotated:

      >That part I don't get.
      >
      >Please someone ... do you have an inkling as to how you're turning
      >this monster into a "hero" of sort? I have no understanding of the
      >process of mediatisation that has happened .. obviously people at
      >the diners, the cops .. do not feel this way ...
      >
      >?
      >
      >Johanne

      in the interview clip Jack watched just before going to confront
      Oswald - Oswald talked about he was being swept up in a tide of
      forgiveness - it was a 'cure' for him [paraphrased]

      look at any controversial figure in the public eye and there will
      always be a faction that advocates forgiveness for that person's
      'crimes' - Casey Anthony is one such person - for all the death
      threats after her acquittal there are plenty of people advocating
      forgiveness and proclaiming her innocence

      within the context of the show - the public in that situation [where
      the Miracle was foisted upon them with no warning and they're still
      learning the consequences] is highly subject to manipulation - there
      were plenty of people that believed in Jim Jones despite his behavior
      - enough so that those most in his thrall did his bidding and made
      certain the rest of the people in Jonestown took the poison or were
      killed if they tried to escape - Bill Pullman's Oswald Danes appears
      to be one of those people with a certain charisma and personality
      type that can lead people to believe what he wants - he put on a very
      convincing 'show' when he cried in that earlier interview and kept
      saying he was sorry -- but then we had him telling Jack in detail
      what it was like to hurt Susie Cabena [sp] - to watch as the bruises
      appeared and to 'feel' her life/spirit leave through him at the end -
      that sequence with Jack was chilling and creepy to the extreme
      because he sounded just as sincere there as he did when he was saying
      he was sorry and when he was saying he was being 'cured' by a tide of
      forgiveness

      as the 'outside' audience looking 'in' - we are supposed to be aware
      of the dark side of Danes - we've seen him threaten to sued the
      Governor of Kentucky if he was not released, we saw his exchange with
      Jack - the general public in the show isn't completely aware of all
      those instances and even though he is a convicted pedophile and
      murderer - I'm sure that some would've argued against his execution
      [there is a huge faction of the general public in real life that is
      against capital punishment] and many that would feel that having
      suffered through the drugs that were supposed to execute him he's
      paid his price and deserves a second chance now

      I don't like Oswald and I found his comments to Jack to be nauseating
      and chilling but I can see within the context of the show how he
      might end up being a messianic character - Jack on the other hand has
      suffered for making the decision to sacrifice his grandson - and
      those other children earlier to the 456 - he does show remorse and
      regret as well as knowledge that forgiveness by others isn't going to
      'erase' that burden

      pfyre

      pfyre
      --
      Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
    • pfyre
      ... except that the last recorded death was at the 22:36 Sunday - and Oswald s execution was stated to be scheduled for 06:00 Monday [which btw is completely
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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        At 05:53 PM 7/25/2011, Joni, annotated:
        >I posted below the spoiler spaces...
        >
        >On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:38 PM, pfyre <oshaun@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> At 03:39 AM 7/25/2011, Daren :\), annotated:
        >>>Don't you see Oswald Dane was originally saying give the drugs
        >>>away for free now he's on the payroll of the big bad so he's
        >>>saying PAY for your drugs
        >>>
        >>>And Oswald is turning into something of a christ figure he wants
        >>>to die he wants to be punished AND he's no fool so he may work out
        >>>who the bad guys are
        >>>
        >>> Daren
        >>
        >> spoilers?
        >>
        >> s
        >>
        >> p
        >>
        >> o
        >>
        >> i
        >>
        >> l
        >>
        >> e
        >>
        >> r
        >>
        >> s
        >>
        >> p
        >>
        >> a
        >>
        >> c
        >>
        >> e
        >>Oswald doesn't need to be rocket scientist - especially since he's
        >>met with TPTB at PhiCorp [sorry that still makes me think of
        >>Babylon 5 and PsiCorps] - if the 'heads' of PhiCorp aren't the
        >>'biggest' of the baddies - they're certainly up there - also Jilly
        >>seems to know an awful lot for 'just a PR person' or even 'just a
        >>PhiCorp rep' - also the Senator that was giving the speech during
        >>the presentation that Dr. Juarez was sitting through is more than
        >>likely pretty high up in the foodchain of baddies
        >>
        >> pfyre
        >
        >
        >I find it interesting that they Oswald mentioned getting drugs from
        >PhiCorp in prison. Perhaps they were testing on the prisoners? And
        >perhaps what they were testing led to Oswald not dying. And if he
        >was patient 0 and this morphic field theory is true, then it got
        >passed along the line to all humans. Except it messed up when it hit Jack?
        >
        >Joni

        except that the last recorded 'death' was at the 22:36 Sunday - and
        Oswald's execution was stated to be scheduled for 06:00 Monday [which
        btw is completely screwy - executions are scheduled for midnight - to
        cutdown on the protesters at the gates AND to allow time for a last
        second reprieve from the governor, etc.] - the timeline doesn't gell
        for him to be patient 0 - at least as far as I can piece together -
        from the tiny bits and pieces we've gotten via various previews, etc.
        - I'm suspecting that the guy we see in the 'past' with Jack - the
        one so shocked that he saw Jack die and then Jack wasn't dead - the
        one with whom Jack apparently has a relationship with [according to
        John at one of the panels at Comic Con it is a 'real relationship'] -
        I suspect he's the key to the whole thing - besides there is another
        tid bit from the preview that shows Jack in his grey great coat on
        top of that 'lover' - and that doesn't fit their original time
        together - so either it's current or sometime in between their
        original relationship and today - so either he's behind it or someone
        has used him to delve into Jack's immortality???

        pfyre

        --
        Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
      • JoAnne Briere
        ... Because he said he was getting drugs from them, doesn t mean he is saying the truth. Johanne
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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          --- En date de : Lun, 25.7.11, Joni <joni.crocker@...> a écrit :

          > De : Joni <joni.crocker@...>
          > Objet : Re: [torchwood] Drugs and more drugs
          > À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: lundi 25 juillet 2011 17 h 53
          > I posted below the spoiler spaces...
          >
          > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:38 PM, pfyre <oshaun@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > At 03:39 AM 7/25/2011, Daren :\), annotated:
          > > >Don't you see Oswald Dane was originally saying
          > give the drugs away
          > > >for free now he's on the payroll of the big bad so
          > he's saying PAY
          > > >for your drugs
          > > >
          > > >And Oswald is turning into something of a christ
          > figure he wants to
          > > >die he wants to be punished AND he's no fool so he
          > may work out who
          > > >the bad guys are
          > > >
          > > >Daren
          > >
          > > spoilers?
          > >
          > > s
          > >
          > > p
          > >
          > > o
          > >
          > > i
          > >
          > > l
          > >
          > > e
          > >
          > > r
          > >
          > > s
          > >
          > > p
          > >
          > > a
          > >
          > > c
          > >
          > > e
          > > Oswald doesn't need to be rocket scientist -
          > especially since he's
          > > met with TPTB at PhiCorp [sorry that still makes me
          > think of Babylon
          > > 5 and PsiCorps] - if the 'heads' of PhiCorp aren't the
          > 'biggest' of
          > > the baddies - they're certainly up there - also Jilly
          > seems to know
          > > an awful lot for 'just a PR person' or even 'just a
          > PhiCorp rep' -
          > > also the Senator that was giving the speech during the
          > presentation
          > > that Dr. Juarez was sitting through is more than
          > likely pretty high
          > > up in the foodchain of baddies
          > >
          > > pfyre
          > >
          > > --
          > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
          > >
          > >
          > I find it interesting that they Oswald mentioned getting
          > drugs from PhiCorp
          > in prison.  Perhaps they were testing on the
          > prisoners?  And perhaps what
          > they were testing led to Oswald not dying.  And if he
          > was patient 0 and this
          > morphic field theory is true, then it got passed along the
          > line to all
          > humans. Except it messed up when it hit Jack?
          >
          > Joni


          Because he said he was getting drugs from them, doesn't mean he is saying the truth.

          Johanne
        • pfyre
          ... Joni never said Oswald was telling the truth but rather he might be patient zero IF Phicorp was supplying drugs to the prison pfyre -- Precious and rare
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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            At 11:11 AM 7/26/2011, JoAnne Briere, annotated:

            >--- En date de : Lun, 25.7.11, Joni <joni.crocker@...> a écrit :
            >
            >> De : Joni <joni.crocker@...
            >> Objet : Re: [torchwood] Drugs and more drugs
            >> À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
            >> Date: lundi 25 juillet 2011 17 h 53
            >> I posted below the spoiler spaces...
            >>
            >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:38 PM, pfyre <oshaun@... wrote:
            >>>
            >>> At 03:39 AM 7/25/2011, Daren :\), annotated:
            >>>>Don't you see Oswald Dane was originally
            >>>>saying give the drugs away for free now he's
            >>>>on the payroll of the big bad so he's saying PAY for your drugs
            >>>>
            >>>>And Oswald is turning into something of a
            >>>>christ figure he wants to die he wants to be
            >>>>punished AND he's no fool so he may work out who the bad guys are
            >>>>
            >>>> Daren
            >>>
            >>> spoilers?
            >>>
            >>> s
            >>>
            >>> p
            >>>
            >>> o
            >>>
            >>> i
            >>>
            >>> l
            >>>
            >>> e
            >>>
            >>> r
            >>>
            >>> s
            >>>
            >>> p
            >>>
            >>> a
            >>>
            >>> c
            >>>
            >>> e
            >>>Oswald doesn't need to be rocket scientist -
            >>>especially since he's met with TPTB at PhiCorp
            >>>[sorry that still makes me think of Babylon 5
            >>>and PsiCorps] - if the 'heads' of PhiCorp
            >>>aren't the 'biggest' of the baddies - they're
            >>>certainly up there - also Jilly seems to know
            >>>an awful lot for 'just a PR person' or even
            >>>'just a PhiCorp rep' - also the Senator that
            >>>was giving the speech during the presentation
            >>>that Dr. Juarez was sitting through is more
            >>>than likely pretty high up in the foodchain of baddies
            >>>
            >>> pfyre
            >>
            >>I find it interesting that they Oswald
            >>mentioned getting drugs from PhiCorp in
            >>prison. Perhaps they were testing on the
            >>prisoners? And perhaps what they were testing
            >>led to Oswald not dying. And if he was patient
            >>0 and this morphic field theory is true, then
            >>it got passed along the line to all humans.
            >>Except it messed up when it hit Jack?
            >>
            >> Joni
            >
            >
            >Because he said he was getting drugs from them,
            >doesn't mean he is saying the truth.
            >
            >Johanne

            Joni never said Oswald was telling the truth but
            rather he might be patient zero IF Phicorp was supplying drugs to the prison

            pfyre
            --
            Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
          • Joni
            ... something like that if it s not going to play a part. It s got to be important one way or the other. Either way I suspect Torchwood is going to
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 26, 2011
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              On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:06 PM, pfyre <oshaun@...> wrote:

              > At 11:11 AM 7/26/2011, JoAnne Briere, annotated:
              >
              > >--- En date de : Lun, 25.7.11, Joni <joni.crocker@...> a écrit :
              > >
              > >> De : Joni <joni.crocker@...
              > >> Objet : Re: [torchwood] Drugs and more drugs
              > >> À : torchwood@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Date: lundi 25 juillet 2011 17 h 53
              > >> I posted below the spoiler spaces...
              > >>
              > >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:38 PM, pfyre <oshaun@... wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>> At 03:39 AM 7/25/2011, Daren :\), annotated:
              > >>>>Don't you see Oswald Dane was originally
              > >>>>saying give the drugs away for free now he's
              > >>>>on the payroll of the big bad so he's saying PAY for your drugs
              > >>>>
              > >>>>And Oswald is turning into something of a
              > >>>>christ figure he wants to die he wants to be
              > >>>>punished AND he's no fool so he may work out who the bad guys are
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Daren
              > >>>
              > >>> spoilers?
              > >>>
              > >>> s
              > >>>
              > >>> p
              > >>>
              > >>> o
              > >>>
              > >>> i
              > >>>
              > >>> l
              > >>>
              > >>> e
              > >>>
              > >>> r
              > >>>
              > >>> s
              > >>>
              > >>> p
              > >>>
              > >>> a
              > >>>
              > >>> c
              > >>>
              > >>> e
              > >>>Oswald doesn't need to be rocket scientist -
              > >>>especially since he's met with TPTB at PhiCorp
              > >>>[sorry that still makes me think of Babylon 5
              > >>>and PsiCorps] - if the 'heads' of PhiCorp
              > >>>aren't the 'biggest' of the baddies - they're
              > >>>certainly up there - also Jilly seems to know
              > >>>an awful lot for 'just a PR person' or even
              > >>>'just a PhiCorp rep' - also the Senator that
              > >>>was giving the speech during the presentation
              > >>>that Dr. Juarez was sitting through is more
              > >>>than likely pretty high up in the foodchain of baddies
              > >>>
              > >>> pfyre
              > >>
              > >>I find it interesting that they Oswald
              > >>mentioned getting drugs from PhiCorp in
              > >>prison. Perhaps they were testing on the
              > >>prisoners? And perhaps what they were testing
              > >>led to Oswald not dying. And if he was patient
              > >>0 and this morphic field theory is true, then
              > >>it got passed along the line to all humans.
              > >>Except it messed up when it hit Jack?
              > >>
              > >> Joni
              > >
              > >
              > >Because he said he was getting drugs from them,
              > >doesn't mean he is saying the truth.
              > >
              > >Johanne
              >
              > Joni never said Oswald was telling the truth but
              > rather he might be patient zero IF Phicorp was supplying drugs to the
              > prison
              >
              > pfyre
              > --
              > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
              >
              > And really - it would be a really odd throw away line, why mention
              something like that if it's not going to play a part. It's got to be
              important one way or the other. Either way I suspect Torchwood is going to
              investigate it. Now it could be a lie and a complete wild goosechase or it
              could be the truth, but I can't imagine that it was brought up with no
              reason. And for all we know PhiCorp provided the medicine for the lethal
              injection. And that could have had something to do with it too.

              I agree though - Jack's past lover is involved in this somehow but whether
              it's innocently, or with evil intent, I dunno...

              Joni


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