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Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2

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  • Leanne
    MOD Note - new message moved to end. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yes, I definitely think you re wrong in that. (A) Jack
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
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      MOD Note - new message moved to end.

      On Jan 7, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Joni <joni.crocker@...> wrote:

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      > 2010/1/6 pfyre <pfyre@...>
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      > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
      > >
      > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
      > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help him
      > > heal....
      > >
      > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY>
      > > --
      > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
      > >
      > > But my understanding was that the meeting with Alonzo actually
      > took place
      > before Jack and Ianto were together and before Jack met 10 at all. I
      > thought it was at the point where he was searching for his Doctor
      > (ie 9).
      >
      > Was I wrong in that?
      >
      > Joni
      >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Yes, I definitely think you're wrong in that. (A) Jack recognized 10 -
      so it had to be post meeting him. (B) The only time Jack could have
      been off Earth would be post COE because of his wristband. (C) If you
      follow Alonso's timeline of when Voyage Of The Damned was set, which
      you can follow because Jack can't time travel, it put that scene in
      2009/10. The only time in 2009/10 he could have been in space would be
      post COE.
    • Stacey
        ... From: Joni Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2 To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday,
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
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        --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Joni <joni.crocker@...> wrote:

        From: Joni <joni.crocker@...>
        Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
        To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 8:24 AM







         









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        2010/1/6 pfyre <pfyre@pfyre. co.uk>



        >

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        > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2

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        > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....

        >

        > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th

        > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help him

        > heal....

        >

        > <http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>

        > --

        > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.

        >

        > But my understanding was that the meeting with Alonzo actually took place

        before Jack and Ianto were together and before Jack met 10 at all. I

        thought it was at the point where he was searching for his Doctor (ie 9).



        Was I wrong in that?



        Joni


        I thought it was taking place after Ianto's death when Jack was trying to get away from it all.  I don't think they were trying to down play the effect of Ianto's death on Jack I just think that Jack has had to move on from the loss of a loved one more than once in the past and he doesn't stop looking for love or companionship...much like the Doctor himself.  JMHO
        Stacey Figueroa

        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Shannon
        ... I think it was after Ianto s death but the way I see it, is that it must be at least six months after Ianto and Stephen s deaths. The end of Children of
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
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          On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Stacey <staciekap@...> wrote:

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          > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Joni <joni.crocker@...<joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > From: Joni <joni.crocker@... <joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
          > Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
          > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com <torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 8:24 AM
          >
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          > 2010/1/6 pfyre <pfyre@pfyre. co.uk>
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          > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
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          > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
          >
          > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help him
          >
          > > heal....
          >
          > >
          >
          > > <http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>
          >
          > > --
          >
          > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > But my understanding was that the meeting with Alonzo actually took place
          >
          > before Jack and Ianto were together and before Jack met 10 at all. I
          >
          > thought it was at the point where he was searching for his Doctor (ie 9).
          >
          > Was I wrong in that?
          >
          > Joni
          >
          > I thought it was taking place after Ianto's death when Jack was trying to
          > get away from it all. I don't think they were trying to down play the
          > effect of Ianto's death on Jack I just think that Jack has had to move on
          > from the loss of a loved one more than once in the past and he doesn't stop
          > looking for love or companionship...much like the Doctor himself. JMHO
          > Stacey Figueroa
          >
          > >
          >

          I think it was after Ianto's death but the way I see it, is that it must be
          at least six months after Ianto and Stephen's deaths. The end of Children of
          Time, when Gwen gave Jack back his wrist strap was six months later, and
          until that point Jack had been earth bound and that bar seemed to clearly
          not be on earth. So it had to be at least long enough that he could leave
          the planet. We really don't know, because it never said, how far into the
          future it was. It could be just six months, it could've been six years, or
          1000 years. No date was given for anyone other than Rose and I think Donna
          (I believe Wilf had said earlier in the episode when her wedding was). We
          don't really know when he found Jack, Martha and Mickey, or Luke and Sarah
          Jane. We've only assumed it's in the very near future.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • pfyre
          ... when did RTD say this was within months of the end of COE? -- Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
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            At 09:58 AM 1/12/2010, Leanne, annotated:

            >On Jan 12, 2010, at 7:28 AM, pfyre
            ><<mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk>pfyre@...> wrote:
            >
            > > At 01:59 AM 1/7/2010, Leanne, annotated:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >This makes me SO angry. I cannot even begin to describe...
            > >
            > > why? you want Jack to mourn forever???
            > >
            > > >On Jan 6, 2010, at 12:14 PM, pfyre
            > > ><<mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk><mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk>pfyre@pf
            > yre.co.uk> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
            > > > >
            > > > > s
            > > > >
            > > > > p
            > > > >
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            > > > >
            > > > > a
            > > > >
            > > > > c
            > > > >
            > > > > e
            > > > >
            > > > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
            > > > >
            > > > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
            > > > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help
            > > him
            > > > > heal....
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > <<<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY>
            > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
            > >
            > > --
            > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >No I don't want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS,
            >or sooner, after Ianto and HIM MURDERING HIS GRANDSON. I am not angry
            >that the Doctor wanted to swoop in and save Jack. I prayed that he
            >would fix him. But his way of "fixing" a post-COE Jack is with
            >meaningless sex? That devalues the character. It made it so Jack
            >really is just the "traveling con-man omnisexual whore" we first met,
            >and undoes all of the character growth he underwent to run Torchwood.

            when did RTD say this was within months of the end of COE?
            --
            Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
          • Stacey
            ... From: Leanne Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2 To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
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              --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Leanne <TicTacOrange@...> wrote:

              From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
              Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
              To: "torchwood@yahoogroups.com" <torchwood@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:58 AM







               









              MOD NOTE - Please ensure discussion is placed after the spoiler space (I'm getting tired of editing all these messages)



              -New message at end.



              On Jan 12, 2010, at 7:28 AM, pfyre <pfyre@pfyre. co.uk> wrote:



              > At 01:59 AM 1/7/2010, Leanne, annotated:

              > >

              > >

              > >This makes me SO angry. I cannot even begin to describe...

              >

              > why? you want Jack to mourn forever???

              >

              > >On Jan 6, 2010, at 12:14 PM, pfyre

              > ><<mailto:pfyre% 40pfyre.co. uk>pfyre@pfyre. co.uk> wrote:

              > >

              > > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2

              > > >

              > > > s

              > > >

              > > > p

              > > >

              > > > o

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              > > > i

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              > > > e

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              > > >

              > > > p

              > > >

              > > > a

              > > >

              > > > c

              > > >

              > > > e

              > > >

              > > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....

              > > >

              > > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th

              > > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help

              > him

              > > > heal....

              > > >

              > > >

              > > <<http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY

              > >

              > > > --

              > > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.

              >

              > --

              > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              No I don't want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS,

              or sooner, after Ianto and HIM MURDERING HIS GRANDSON. I am not angry

              that the Doctor wanted to swoop in and save Jack. I prayed that he

              would fix him. But his way of "fixing" a post-COE Jack is with

              meaningless sex? That devalues the character. It made it so Jack

              really is just the "traveling con-man omnisexual whore" we first met,

              and undoes all of the character growth he underwent to run Torchwood.






              But I think that in order to Jack to come back from the pain and loss that he suffered he is going to revert back to a certain extent.  That facade is what kept him sane and allowed him to move on after all the losses he has had in his life.  I am sure that he has buried a number of people that meant something to him.  either from old age or illness.  That includes children, lovers, co-workers, etc.

              Stacey Figueroa





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Wiebke White
              Reply at the end ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No I don t want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS, or sooner,
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 13, 2010
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                Reply at the end




                > > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2

                > > >

                > > > s

                > > >

                > > > p

                > > >

                > > > o

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                > > > i

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                > > > l

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                > > > e

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                > > > p

                > > >

                > > > a

                > > >

                > > > c

                > > >

                > > > e

                > > >

                > > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....

                > > >

                > > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th

                > > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help

                > him

                > > > heal....

                > > >

                > > >

                > > <<http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY

                > >

                > > > --

                > > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.

                >

                > --

                > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.

                >

                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                No I don't want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS,

                or sooner, after Ianto and HIM MURDERING HIS GRANDSON. I am not angry

                that the Doctor wanted to swoop in and save Jack. I prayed that he

                would fix him. But his way of "fixing" a post-COE Jack is with

                meaningless sex? That devalues the character. It made it so Jack

                really is just the "traveling con-man omnisexual whore" we first met,

                and undoes all of the character growth he underwent to run Torchwood.

                But I think that in order to Jack to come back from the pain and loss that he suffered he is going to revert back to a certain extent.  That facade is what kept him sane and allowed him to move on after all the losses he has had in his life.  I am sure that he has buried a number of people that meant something to him.  either from old age or illness.  That includes children, lovers, co-workers, etc.

                Stacey Figueroa

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                 
                Reply:
                 
                I've just rewatched the first episodes with Jack and the Doctor, and the running theme is the Doctor STOPPING Jack saying hello and / or flirting.  The fact that Jack sits in a bar, lifeless... (hardly any reaction to that adipose falling or the gorgeous woman next to him)... telling Jack to flirt with Alonso is a total turn around for the Doctor.   How do we know it's going to be meaningless sex?  All he does is give Jack a push to notice people around him.  Jack's flirting is hesitant, as if he's not done that for a very long time!  Even Ianto acknowledged that Jack had to go on, purely because Jack will go on regardless, and I think Ianto would want him to live, not just breathe and survive.
                It does not devalue the journey Jack has made... he has lost people for over 150 years and losing Ianto and Stephen pushed him so far that he gave up his "Defender of Earth' title he'd received from the Doctor after returning after they Year that Never was.  He's left his purpose behind...  and maybe noticing people (and Alonso looks rather sad in himself), he may also notice needs around him and feel the urge again to resume that role or another that has more purpose rather than just drinking and staring into space.
                Wiebke
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joni
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                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 13, 2010
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                  > I think it was after Ianto's death but the way I see it, is that it must be
                  > at least six months after Ianto and Stephen's deaths. The end of Children
                  > of
                  > Time, when Gwen gave Jack back his wrist strap was six months later, and
                  > until that point Jack had been earth bound and that bar seemed to clearly
                  > not be on earth. So it had to be at least long enough that he could leave
                  > the planet. We really don't know, because it never said, how far into the
                  > future it was. It could be just six months, it could've been six years, or
                  > 1000 years. No date was given for anyone other than Rose and I think Donna
                  > (I believe Wilf had said earlier in the episode when her wedding was). We
                  > don't really know when he found Jack, Martha and Mickey, or Luke and Sarah
                  > Jane. We've only assumed it's in the very near future.
                  >
                  >
                  I was wondering if perhaps Mickey and Martha were working for a new version
                  of Torchwood in the future. I doubt it was Unit since they were all clad in
                  black leather.

                  Joni


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Robert A. Rosenberg
                  At 09:58 -0500 on 01/12/2010, Leanne wrote about Re: [torchwood] ... We have no idea of how long this occurred after the events of CoE. The Doctor can go
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 13, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 09:58 -0500 on 01/12/2010, Leanne wrote about Re: [torchwood]
                    spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2:

                    >On Jan 12, 2010, at 7:28 AM, pfyre
                    ><<mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk>pfyre@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> At 01:59 AM 1/7/2010, Leanne, annotated:
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >This makes me SO angry. I cannot even begin to describe...
                    >>
                    >> why? you want Jack to mourn forever???
                    >>
                    >> >On Jan 6, 2010, at 12:14 PM, pfyre
                    >> ><<mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk><mailto:pfyre%40pfyre.co.uk>pfyre@...>
                    >>wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                    >> > >
                    >> > > s
                    >> > >
                    >> > > p
                    >> > >
                    >> > > o
                    >> > >
                    >> > > i
                    >> > >
                    >> > > l
                    >> > >
                    >> > > e
                    >> > >
                    >> > > r
                    >> > >
                    >> > > s
                    >> > >
                    >> > > p
                    >> > >
                    >> > > a
                    >> > >
                    >> > > c
                    >> > >
                    >> > > e
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
                    >> > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help
                    >> him
                    >> > > heal....
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >><<<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWGI6hPB1VY
                    >> >
                    >> > > --
                    >> > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >No I don't want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS,
                    >or sooner, after Ianto and HIM MURDERING HIS GRANDSON.

                    We have no idea of how long this occurred after the events of CoE.
                    The Doctor can go anywhen and this could occur after Jack has been
                    gone for a year or two and the Doctor has decided that he has had
                    enough time to heal so prods him.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Robert A. Rosenberg
                    At 15:45 -0500 on 01/12/2010, Shannon wrote about Re: [torchwood] ... The Luke and Sarah sequence occurs, I think, before the SJA episode The Marriage of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 13, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 15:45 -0500 on 01/12/2010, Shannon wrote about Re: [torchwood]
                      spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2:

                      >
                      >
                      >On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Stacey
                      ><<mailto:staciekap%40yahoo.com>staciekap@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Joni
                      >><<mailto:joni.crocker%40gmail.com>joni.crocker@...<joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> From: Joni
                      >><<mailto:joni.crocker%40gmail.com>joni.crocker@...
                      >><joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
                      >> Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                      >> To: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                      >><torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 8:24 AM
                      >>
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                      >> 2010/1/6 pfyre <pfyre@pfyre. co.uk>
                      >>
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                      >> > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                      >>
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                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > l
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > e
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > r
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > s
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > p
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > a
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > c
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > e
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
                      >>
                      >> > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help him
                      >>
                      >> > heal....
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > <<http://www.youtube>http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>
                      >>
                      >> > --
                      >>
                      >> > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > But my understanding was that the meeting with Alonzo actually took place
                      >>
                      >> before Jack and Ianto were together and before Jack met 10 at all. I
                      >>
                      >> thought it was at the point where he was searching for his Doctor (ie 9).
                      >>
                      >> Was I wrong in that?
                      >>
                      >> Joni
                      >>
                      >> I thought it was taking place after Ianto's death when Jack was trying to
                      >> get away from it all. I don't think they were trying to down play the
                      >> effect of Ianto's death on Jack I just think that Jack has had to move on
                      >> from the loss of a loved one more than once in the past and he doesn't stop
                      >> looking for love or companionship...much like the Doctor himself. JMHO
                      >> Stacey Figueroa
                      >>
                      > > >
                      >>
                      >
                      >We don't really know when he found Jack, Martha and Mickey, or Luke and Sarah
                      >Jane. We've only assumed it's in the very near future.

                      The Luke and Sarah sequence occurs, I think, before the SJA episode
                      "The Marriage of Sarah Jane Smith" since Luke knew (and had met) the
                      Doctor in that episode and did not in the EoT sequence.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ThistleThorne@aol.com
                      Mod Note: Message moved to end (this is in accordance with rfc 1855) ... From: Robert A. Rosenberg To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 14, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Mod Note: Message moved to end (this is in accordance with rfc 1855)




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Robert A. Rosenberg <rarpsl@...>
                        To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 12:07 pm
                        Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2





                        At 15:45 -0500 on 01/12/2010, Shannon wrote about Re: [torchwood]
                        spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2:

                        >
                        >
                        >On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Stacey
                        ><<mailto:staciekap%40yahoo.com>staciekap@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Joni
                        >><<mailto:joni.crocker%40gmail.com>joni.crocker@...<joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
                        >> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> From: Joni
                        >><<mailto:joni.crocker%40gmail.com>joni.crocker@...
                        >><joni.crocker%40gmail.com>>
                        >> Subject: Re: [torchwood] spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                        >> To: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                        >><torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 8:24 AM
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> s
                        >>
                        >> 2010/1/6 pfyre <pfyre@pfyre. co.uk>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > s
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > p
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > o
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > i
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > l
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > e
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > r
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > s
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > p
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > a
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > c
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > e
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
                        >>
                        >> > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help him
                        >>
                        >> > heal....
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > <<http://www.youtube>http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>
                        >>
                        >> > --
                        >>
                        >> > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                        >>
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> > But my understanding was that the meeting with Alonzo actually took place
                        >>
                        >> before Jack and Ianto were together and before Jack met 10 at all. I
                        >>
                        >> thought it was at the point where he was searching for his Doctor (ie 9).
                        >>
                        >> Was I wrong in that?
                        >>
                        >> Joni
                        >>
                        >> I thought it was taking place after Ianto's death when Jack was trying to
                        >> get away from it all. I don't think they were trying to down play the
                        >> effect of Ianto's death on Jack I just think that Jack has had to move on
                        >> from the loss of a loved one more than once in the past and he doesn't stop
                        >> looking for love or companionship...much like the Doctor himself. JMHO
                        >> Stacey Figueroa
                        >>
                        > > >
                        >>
                        >
                        >We don't really know when he found Jack, Martha and Mickey, or Luke and Sarah
                        >Jane. We've only assumed it's in the very near future.

                        The Luke and Sarah sequence occurs, I think, before the SJA episode
                        "The Marriage of Sarah Jane Smith" since Luke knew (and had met) the
                        Doctor in that episode and did not in the EoT sequence.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                        Okay, the spoiler isn't here, but I did a drabble about the scene in the space bar since I couldn't get it out of my head when I first saw it. It'll take less than a minute to read:

                        http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5666532/1/Alone




                        *******************************************
                        Learn the rules so you know how to
                        break them properly
                        --Dalai Lama

                        ThistleThorne
                        ThistleThorne@...
                        http://www.fanfiction.net/~thistlethorne






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • md_moore42
                        ... com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY ... that he suffered he is going to revert back to a certain extent. That facade is what kept him sane and allowed him to move
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 15, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Wiebke White <hab318princess@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Reply at the end
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > > > spoilers for DW - The End of Time - Part 2
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > s
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > p
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > o
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > i
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > l
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > e
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > r
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > s
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > p
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > a
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > c
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > e
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > Doctor Who - The End of Time - Part 2 - His Name's Alonso....
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > Captain Jack Harkness has one final encounter with the 10th
                          >
                          > > > > incarnation of the Doctor and meets someone that might just help
                          >
                          > > him
                          >
                          > > > > heal....
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > <<http://www.youtube com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY>http://www.youtube
                          com/watch? v=bWGI6hPB1VY
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > > --
                          >
                          > > > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --
                          >
                          > > Precious and rare all Love is, gender matters not.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > No I don't want him to mourn forever but this was set within MONTHS,
                          >
                          > or sooner, after Ianto and HIM MURDERING HIS GRANDSON. I am not angry
                          >
                          > that the Doctor wanted to swoop in and save Jack. I prayed that he
                          >
                          > would fix him. But his way of "fixing" a post-COE Jack is with
                          >
                          > meaningless sex? That devalues the character. It made it so Jack
                          >
                          > really is just the "traveling con-man omnisexual whore" we first met,
                          >
                          > and undoes all of the character growth he underwent to run Torchwood.
                          >
                          > But I think that in order to Jack to come back from the pain and loss
                          that he suffered he is going to revert back to a certain extent.Â
                          That facade is what kept him sane and allowed him to move on after all
                          the losses he has had in his life. I am sure that he has buried a
                          number of people that meant something to him. either from old age
                          or illness. That includes children, lovers, co-workers, etc.
                          >
                          > Stacey Figueroa
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > Â
                          > Reply:
                          > Â
                          > I've just rewatched the first episodes with Jack and the Doctor, and
                          the running theme is the Doctor STOPPING Jack saying hello and / or
                          flirting. The fact that Jack sits in a bar, lifeless... (hardly any
                          reaction to that adipose falling or the gorgeous woman next to him)...
                          telling Jack to flirt with Alonso is a total turn around for the
                          Doctor.  How do we know it's going to be meaningless sex?Â
                          All he does is give Jack a push to notice people around him. Jack's
                          flirting is hesitant, as if he's not done that for a very long time!Â
                          Even Ianto acknowledged that Jack had to go on, purely because Jack will
                          go on regardless, and I think Ianto would want him to live, not just
                          breathe and survive.
                          > It does not devalue the journey Jack has made... he has lost people
                          for over 150 years and losing Ianto and Stephen pushed him so far that
                          he gave up his "Defender of Earth' title he'd received from the Doctor
                          after returning after they Year that Never was. He's left his
                          purpose behind... and maybe noticing people (and Alonso looks
                          rather sad in himself), he may also notice needs around him and feel the
                          urge again to resume that role or another that has more purpose rather
                          than just drinking and staring into space.
                          > Wiebke
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                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          %%%%%%%
                          Beautifully stated. I was going to say that Jack puts up a wall to
                          protect himself when starting any relationship. That's normal with most
                          people. That doesn't mean that he isn't human behind that wall.
                          Reaching out at all has to be painful.

                          This is the equivalent of all of those TV movies that have the friends
                          of a widow pushing her into a singles bar. Jack has to start somewhere.
                          >
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