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END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen

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  • Jakx
    ... From: Leanne To: brittrackupdates@yahoogroups.com ; torchwood@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 5:02 AM Subject: [torchwood] END OF TIME -
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Leanne
      To: brittrackupdates@yahoogroups.com ; torchwood@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 5:02 AM
      Subject: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen (additional spoiler space added before approval)
      spoiler space
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      spoiler space
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      REPEATING:
      DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.
      DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.
      DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.
      DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.
      DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.

      1. Geronamo? Really? That's the new catch phrase? We went from allons-y to geronamo?
      2. Ok... his first minute was cute... The panic at being a girl...
      3. "I don't want to go." ...Wow... Ok... Sobbed like a little bitch, not gonna lie.
      4. That flash of Jack in the bar, I HAVE to assume that it's way before or way after children of earth, otherwise I'm way too angry.
      5. That was the longest goodbye scene ever. 25 minutes of me sobbing. I actually had to pause it and say "damnit just die all ready!"
      6. They can still bring DT back... cause of human!doctor on that other dimension... Am I reaching here?
      7. Martha married Mickey? WOAH... I'm confused though because wasn't there a line in COE about Martha having married some guy who wasn't Mickey?
      8. What the hell happaned to the Master?
      9. WHY DID THE DOCTOR HAVE TO GET IN THAT DAMNED BOX? THERE HAD TO HAVE BEEN SOME FU****G MECHANICAL THING THEY COULD'VE MADE TO GO IN AND PRESS THE BUTTON, OR SOME REALLY REALLY OLD CANCER PATIENT WITH ONLY A DAY TO LIVE... OR SOMETHING! I don't get it, I don't like it. I'm fine with the decision to kill off 10 and create 11 - but that whole thing felt contrived. I knew it was going to be important, they made too big a deal of showing that box all the time...


      &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
      to answer some of your points:
      1) Chris Ecclestons catchphrase was "Fantastic", David`s was "Alonsy", so Matt is going to have his own.

      2) I like that as well. Espcially as his voice rose higher as he said it. :)

      3)They showed in the confidential that they recirded David saying that like several times each with a different emotion. I`m glad they chose the version they did, I think it was perfect.

      4) Probably well after COE. I rather gathered that the Doctor`s "Reward" was him going around changing history by saving the lives of his former companions. And while maybe not saving Jacks physical life (as he can`t stay dead), he was obviously saving Jacks sanity. I just can`t see Alonso settling on Earth in Torchwood.

      5) I was beginning to think he wasn`t going to die at all, and it was all one huge big PR stunt!!

      6) I agree. But rather than CloneDoc coming to this dimension, it would probably more likely to have the Doctor revist Pete`s World somehow.

      7) All that was mentioned in COE about Martha, was that she was on her honeymoon. We all assumed she had married Tom, as that`s what she told the Doctor she was planning to do. But we last saw her walking off with Mickey and Jack at the end of Journey`s End.

      8) I assumed he destroyed himself as he drove back the TimeLords. I will have to watch again.

      9) They didn`t have time to fetch a terminally ill patient. Almost as soon as the Doctor got in, the nuclear thing went off.

      Jakx

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    • Leanne
      3)They showed in the confidential that they recorded David saying that like several times each with a different emotion. I`m glad they chose the version they
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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        3)They showed in the confidential that they recorded David saying that like several times each with a different emotion. I`m glad they chose the version they did, I think it was perfect.

        >>Anyone have a youtube link to this?


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Leanne
        P L E A S E R E M E M B E R T O U S E S P O I L E R S P A C E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn t see that much
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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          !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


          Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful mess.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
          To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:34 pm
          Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen




          3)They showed in the confidential that they recorded David saying that like several times each with a different emotion. I`m glad they chose the version they did, I think it was perfect.

          >>Anyone have a youtube link to this?

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ThistleThorne@aol.com
          ... From: Leanne To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don t read if you
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
            To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
            Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen




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            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful mess.

            ********************************************************
            ********************************************************
            ********************************************************


            I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let out a HUGE sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.

            One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can go back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames House and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.


            *******************************************
            Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly
            --Dalai Lama

            ThistleThorne
            ThistleThorne@...@...
            http://www.fanfiction.net/~thistlethorne




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ThistleThorne@aol.com
            P L E A S E R E M E M B E R T O U S E S P O I L E R S P A C E ... From: Leanne To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:34
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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              !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
              To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:34 pm
              Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen




              3)They showed in the confidential that they recorded David saying that like several times each with a different emotion. I`m glad they chose the version they did, I think it was perfect.

              >>Anyone have a youtube link to this?

              *******************************
              *******************************
              *******************************

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eQvoH5y60M


              *******************************************
              Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly
              --Dalai Lama

              ThistleThorne
              ThistleThorne@...
              http://www.fanfiction.net/~thistlethorne







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Spankskin
              See below! _____ From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ThistleThorne@aol.com Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24 To:
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 2, 2010
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                See below!



                _____

                From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of ThistleThorne@...
                Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen







                -----Original Message-----
                From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com> aol.com>
                To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen

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                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see that much
                difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too much. I agree with
                David that it would have been too out of character - and would have broken
                me down into a slobbering pitiful mess.

                ********************************************************
                ********************************************************
                ********************************************************

                I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let out a HUGE
                sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.

                One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that
                note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can go
                back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames House
                and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.



                Remember what he told Wilf about not going back on someones personal
                timeline and affecting the causal matrix - Stuart



                *******************************************
                Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly
                --Dalai Lama

                ThistleThorne
                <mailto:ThistleThorne%40aol.com> ThistleThorne@...@...
                <http://www.fanfiction.net/~thistlethorne>
                http://www.fanfiction.net/~thistlethorne







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • sem
                ... Forgive me for forgetting, but the guy who sat next to Jack, wasn t he in one ep of Torchwood or DW (a few xmas specials ago... maybe the Titanic one?) He
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                  >Behalf Of Spankskin
                  >Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39
                  >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                  >
                  >See below!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                  >Behalf
                  >Of ThistleThorne@...
                  >Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                  >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com> aol.com>
                  >To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                  >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                  >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                  >
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                  >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  >

                  >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that
                  >note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can
                  >go
                  >back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames
                  >House
                  >and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.

                  Forgive me for forgetting, but the guy who sat next to Jack, wasn't he in
                  one ep of Torchwood or DW (a few xmas specials ago... maybe the Titanic
                  one?) He looks so familiar.

                  catzy
                • sem
                  ... Forgot to ask. I missed this somehow and it s driving me nuts. What happened to the Master? Last I saw of him, he was attacking the lead Time Lord (great
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                    >>-----Original Message-----
                    >>From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >>Behalf Of Spankskin
                    >>Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39
                    >>To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                    >>Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                    >>
                    >>See below!
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> _____
                    >>
                    >>From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >>Behalf
                    >>Of ThistleThorne@...
                    >>Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                    >>To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                    >>Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                    >>
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                    >>
                    >
                    Forgot to ask. I missed this somehow and it's driving me nuts. What happened
                    to the Master? Last I saw of him, he was attacking the lead Time Lord (great
                    teamwork with the Doctor!). Then the Time Lords were gone but no sign of the
                    Master. Where did he go? There was never any mention of him after that.

                    Catzy
                  • KT
                    ... From: sem To: Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:16 AM Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don t read if
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "sem" <catz@...>
                      To: <torchwood@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:16 AM
                      Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen


                      >>>-----Original Message-----
                      >>>From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >>>Behalf Of Spankskin
                      >>>Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39
                      >>>To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                      >>>
                      >>>See below!
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> _____
                      >>>
                      >>>From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >>>Behalf
                      >>>Of ThistleThorne@...
                      >>>Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                      >>>To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                      >>>
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                      >>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      >>>
                      >>
                      > Forgot to ask. I missed this somehow and it's driving me nuts. What
                      > happened
                      > to the Master? Last I saw of him, he was attacking the lead Time Lord
                      > (great
                      > teamwork with the Doctor!). Then the Time Lords were gone but no sign of
                      > the
                      > Master. Where did he go? There was never any mention of him after that.
                      >
                      He got sucked back into the timelock with the other Timelords.
                    • Robert A. Rosenberg
                      At 22:24 -0500 on 01/02/2010, ThistleThorne@aol.com wrote about Re: ... The companion I would have wanted to see would have been Professor River Song (Alex
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                        At 22:24 -0500 on 01/02/2010, ThistleThorne@... wrote about Re:
                        [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't see:

                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: Leanne <<mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com>TicTacOrange@...>
                        >To: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                        >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                        >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                        >
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                        >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        >
                        >Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see
                        >that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too
                        >much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of
                        >character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful
                        >mess.
                        >
                        >********************************************************
                        >********************************************************
                        >********************************************************
                        >
                        >I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let out
                        >a HUGE sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.
                        >
                        >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was
                        >that note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the
                        >Doctor can go back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was
                        >pop into Thames House and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed
                        >him -- or whatever.

                        The companion I would have wanted to see would have been Professor
                        River Song (Alex Kingston). Of course that would have raised
                        continuity issues with that plot-line since it was never explained if
                        her doctor was #10 or #11 (Alex Kingston has been reported to be
                        appearing in at least one #11 episode). Since she recognized #10, the
                        implication was that it was him not #11 who she was having adventures
                        with. If so, when did he do that before End of Time (unless it was
                        during the hiatus after Mars that he references at the start of End
                        of Time)?



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Robert A. Rosenberg
                        At 08:38 +0100 on 01/03/2010, Spankskin wrote about Re: [torchwood] ... He also learned his lesson in Mars where he attempted to do that and it did not work
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                          At 08:38 +0100 on 01/03/2010, Spankskin wrote about Re: [torchwood]
                          END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't see:

                          >
                          >From: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                          >[mailto:<mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com]
                          >On Behalf
                          >Of <mailto:ThistleThorne%40aol.com>ThistleThorne@...
                          >Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                          >To: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                          >
                          >-----Original Message-----
                          >From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com> aol.com>
                          >To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                          >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                          >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                          >
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                          >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                          >
                          >Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see that much
                          >difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too much. I agree with
                          >David that it would have been too out of character - and would have broken
                          >me down into a slobbering pitiful mess.
                          >
                          >********************************************************
                          >********************************************************
                          >********************************************************
                          >
                          >I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let out a HUGE
                          >sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.
                          >
                          >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that
                          >note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can go
                          >back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames House
                          >and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.
                          >
                          >Remember what he told Wilf about not going back on someones personal
                          >timeline and affecting the causal matrix - Stuart

                          He also learned his lesson in Mars where he attempted to do that and
                          it did not work out.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • johanne briere
                          je suis désolée je n ai lu aucun message a de cette liste a propos des épisodes end of time du doctor who et pourtant j écris Hi ! I wrote above, that I
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
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                            je

                            suis

                            désolée

                            je

                            n'ai

                            lu

                            aucun

                            message

                            a

                            de

                            cette

                            liste

                            a

                            propos

                            des

                            épisodes

                            end

                            of

                            time

                            du

                            doctor

                            who

                            et

                            pourtant

                            j'écris





                            Hi !



                            I wrote above, that I was sorry, I had not read any previous messages, I kept them all and will read throught them this afternoon. Space (Canada network) aired a Doctor Who marathan yesterday, ending it with End of Time. So I spend all evening, starting around 4 watching all the movie-special of David Tennant teneure as my Doctor :). It began with "The next doctor" in rerun and ended with the Canadian advertised premiere of End of times.



                            I will miss dearly David as my doctor. He got to me in ways that Christopher Eccleston had not. And Christopher was the first doctor for me, being nudged by a friend to watch. It was then on CBC at 11 pm on Sunday night and I missed so many episodes. Clearly John Barrowman as Captain Jack had left no impression whatsoever, I had seen those episodes where he was sidekicking with the doctor and Rose and he left no impressions. It took Torchwood and mostly this summer for me to "wake" to him.



                            Okay first things first. What was it with the "facture des deux épisodes" how to say in English ? the color ? the manufacturing ? the deployment of the visual decision. Darn sometimes English can elude me so much. La facture is how the show looks, feels, is shot, is being visualise ..... anyway. All the Star Wars look-alike imagery annoyed me to no end. But worst the ending à la Lord of the Rings just about made me cringed aloud in my home.



                            I have no past history with the doctor, never saw any other prior to Christopher Eccleston. But his regeneration was rather speedy; he took all of Rose over-over-energy into him and wham he turned into David Tennant. Nine became Ten. Was it not done this way in older series ? if not, then perhaps, the end of End of Time is making sense to "real hard-core old fans" and I may be excused for silliness.



                            But David Doctor Who Ten Tennant gets irradiated after saving his Star War sidekick but it takes forever to regenerate, so long that Lord of the Ring ending began with him trekking along every possible characters and waving bye bye my friend. Although when he came along as Doctor Ten, he had the memories of all previous doctor and did not need to wave bye or specifically say hello back.



                            So Martha and Mickey ? hein, where is the luscious cute doctor she called for a date and whom I thought she married? Mickey with Martha ? hein what ? and he did not speak to them, simply step in, saving them, influencing events once more. Rose in the past ? why ? please explain this to me. So it was prior to her life changing forever, to see her simple self, in time before, as if regretting having meet her. He feel in love with her in doctor nine incarnation and the love remained in doctor ten incarnation - he is the same, with the same feeling. So what's this ending?

                            Now Jack. Oh Jack. Back to Star Wars cantina. After having sidekick grand-pa as a Luke combo Obiwan to his HanSolo-combo-Luke-persona himself fighting away in the ship of R2D2 & C3PO, we get a cantina, with all kinds of Who Space Alien, and a sad Jack with his WW2 jacket, therefore post doctor nine, therefore post his first death, therefore post season 1 of Torchwood at least. Sad, drinking away sadness and loneliness in busy crowd. Hein ?



                            No, the endless ending of end of time bothered me, saddened me. He should have regenerated after leaving the irradiating cubicle. Simple ending, to a not simple doctor. A doctor sad from the Water of Mars, his reality that his stepping and changing the past, which he always refused before, was his own lost of himself. That would have been finality and clarity.



                            I have no disrespect for creators and authors of tv shows. They must deal with accountants, networks, advertisers. And hope to retain creativity in the process. Ihave no disrespect for actors and behind the scenes creators of tv shows. They work for a dream they had, a passion they had and hopefully retain.



                            But I have no disrespect for me as viewer either. I can't abide some decisions and my choice is to tune or not to tune and sometimes to buy the merchandises or not to buy. It's also a business this entertainment business. I have money to spend. I do. I will not spend it on Torchwood 4. Not in money. Not in time. Despite not disrecspecting creators, authors and actors.



                            For they are doing , in their own creation, decision, paths and choices, things that do not please me Johanne, one single viewer.



                            Captain Jack in his cantina, drinking alone, reading a note from his doctor, smiling at him, not questionning his note and starting to flirt a little - all healthy phase of live and of living. Immortal. Facing the death of all he loves and will love and has loved. John does good. But where stories are going are not entertaining nor amusing to me and that small cantina scene left me sad and lonely in my snowny neck of Montreal.



                            The ending of End of Time, a fine episode, a weird episode, a staggering of events, of disliking all the time lords together for their power and their inaptitude of living, ressembling the sectarian elitist feel of the Jedi Cult of Episode 1, 2 and 3 of Star Wars, where suddenly to me Jedi were turned into a sect with faulty values of the greatest faults at that. Well so did the Time Lords of Gallifrey, monsters that they are, leaving the Master to be a victim and the Doctor to be a clear-cut naive of sad and faulty memories.



                            Weird.



                            Johanne


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • sem
                            ... Bummer
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>P
                              >>>>
                              >>>>L
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>A
                              >>>>
                              >>>>S
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>R
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>M
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>M
                              >>>>
                              >>>>B
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>R
                              >>>>
                              >>>>T
                              >>>>
                              >>>>O
                              >>>>
                              >>>>U
                              >>>>
                              >>>>S
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>S
                              >>>>
                              >>>>P
                              >>>>
                              >>>>O
                              >>>>
                              >>>>I
                              >>>>
                              >>>>L
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>R
                              >>>>
                              >>>>S
                              >>>>
                              >>>>P
                              >>>>
                              >>>>A
                              >>>>
                              >>>>C
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>P
                              >>>>
                              >>>>O
                              >>>>
                              >>>>I
                              >>>>
                              >>>>L
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>R
                              >>>>
                              >>>>S
                              >>>>
                              >>>>P
                              >>>>
                              >>>>A
                              >>>>
                              >>>>C
                              >>>>
                              >>>>E
                              >>>>
                              >>>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >> Forgot to ask. I missed this somehow and it's driving me nuts. What
                              >> happened
                              >> to the Master? Last I saw of him, he was attacking the lead Time Lord
                              >> (great
                              >> teamwork with the Doctor!). Then the Time Lords were gone but no sign
                              >of
                              >> the
                              >> Master. Where did he go? There was never any mention of him after
                              >that.
                              >>
                              >He got sucked back into the timelock with the other Timelords.
                              >
                              Bummer
                            • johanne briere
                              From: jojoann@sympatico.ca To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don t read if you haven t seen Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:34:28
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                From: jojoann@...
                                To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:34:28 -0500




                                je
                                suis
                                désolée
                                je
                                n'ai
                                lu
                                aucun
                                message
                                a
                                de
                                cette
                                liste
                                a
                                propos
                                des
                                épisodes
                                end
                                of
                                time
                                du
                                doctor
                                who
                                et
                                pourtant
                                j'écris


                                Hi !

                                I wrote above, that I was sorry, I had not read any previous messages, I kept them all and will read throught them this afternoon. Space (Canada network) aired a Doctor Who marathan yesterday, ending it with End of Time. So I spend all evening, starting around 4 watching all the movie-special of David Tennant teneure as my Doctor :). It began with "The next doctor" in rerun and ended with the Canadian advertised premiere of End of times.

                                I will miss dearly David as my doctor. He got to me in ways that Christopher Eccleston had not. And Christopher was the first doctor for me, being nudged by a friend to watch. It was then on CBC at 11 pm on Sunday night and I missed so many episodes. Clearly John Barrowman as Captain Jack had left no impression whatsoever, I had seen those episodes where he was sidekicking with the doctor and Rose and he left no impressions. It took Torchwood and mostly this summer for me to "wake" to him.

                                Okay first things first. What was it with the "facture des deux épisodes" how to say in English ? the color ? the manufacturing ? the deployment of the visual decision. Darn sometimes English can elude me so much. La facture is how the show looks, feels, is shot, is being visualise ..... anyway. All the Star Wars look-alike imagery annoyed me to no end. But worst the ending à la Lord of the Rings just about made me cringed aloud in my home.

                                I have no past history with the doctor, never saw any other prior to Christopher Eccleston. But his regeneration was rather speedy; he took all of Rose over-over-energy into him and wham he turned into David Tennant. Nine became Ten. Was it not done this way in older series ? if not, then perhaps, the end of End of Time is making sense to "real hard-core old fans" and I may be excused for silliness.

                                But David Doctor Who Ten Tennant gets irradiated after saving his Star War sidekick but it takes forever to regenerate, so long that Lord of the Ring ending began with him trekking along every possible characters and waving bye bye my friend. Although when he came along as Doctor Ten, he had the memories of all previous doctor and did not need to wave bye or specifically say hello back.

                                So Martha and Mickey ? hein, where is the luscious cute doctor she called for a date and whom I thought she married? Mickey with Martha ? hein what ? and he did not speak to them, simply step in, saving them, influencing events once more. Rose in the past ? why ? please explain this to me. So it was prior to her life changing forever, to see her simple self, in time before, as if regretting having meet her. He feel in love with her in doctor nine incarnation and the love remained in doctor ten incarnation - he is the same, with the same feeling. So what's this ending?
                                Now Jack. Oh Jack. Back to Star Wars cantina. After having sidekick grand-pa as a Luke combo Obiwan to his HanSolo-combo-Luke-persona himself fighting away in the ship of R2D2 & C3PO, we get a cantina, with all kinds of Who Space Alien, and a sad Jack with his WW2 jacket, therefore post doctor nine, therefore post his first death, therefore post season 1 of Torchwood at least. Sad, drinking away sadness and loneliness in busy crowd. Hein ?

                                No, the endless ending of end of time bothered me, saddened me. He should have regenerated after leaving the irradiating cubicle. Simple ending, to a not simple doctor. A doctor sad from the Water of Mars, his reality that his stepping and changing the past, which he always refused before, was his own lost of himself. That would have been finality and clarity.

                                I have no disrespect for creators and authors of tv shows. They must deal with accountants, networks, advertisers. And hope to retain creativity in the process. Ihave no disrespect for actors and behind the scenes creators of tv shows. They work for a dream they had, a passion they had and hopefully retain.

                                But I have no disrespect for me as viewer either. I can't abide some decisions and my choice is to tune or not to tune and sometimes to buy the merchandises or not to buy. It's also a business this entertainment business. I have money to spend. I do. I will not spend it on Torchwood 4. Not in money. Not in time. Despite not disrecspecting creators, authors and actors.

                                For they are doing , in their own creation, decision, paths and choices, things that do not please me Johanne, one single viewer.

                                Captain Jack in his cantina, drinking alone, reading a note from his doctor, smiling at him, not questionning his note and starting to flirt a little - all healthy phase of live and of living. Immortal. Facing the death of all he loves and will love and has loved. John does good. But where stories are going are not entertaining nor amusing to me and that small cantina scene left me sad and lonely in my snowny neck of Montreal.

                                The ending of End of Time, a fine episode, a weird episode, a staggering of events, of disliking all the time lords together for their power and their inaptitude of living, ressembling the sectarian elitist feel of the Jedi Cult of Episode 1, 2 and 3 of Star Wars, where suddenly to me Jedi were turned into a sect with faulty values of the greatest faults at that. Well so did the Time Lords of Gallifrey, monsters that they are, leaving the Master to be a victim and the Doctor to be a clear-cut naive of sad and faulty memories.

                                Weird.

                                Johanne


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • wb2cjs
                                ... He is Midshipman Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Alonso_Frame
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 4, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "sem" <catz@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >-----Original Message-----
                                  > >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > >Behalf Of Spankskin
                                  > >Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39
                                  > >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                  > >
                                  > >See below!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _____
                                  > >
                                  > >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > >Behalf
                                  > >Of ThistleThorne@...
                                  > >Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                                  > >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >-----Original Message-----
                                  > >From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com> aol.com>
                                  > >To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                  > >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                                  > >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                  > >
                                  > >P
                                  > >
                                  > >L
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >A
                                  > >
                                  > >S
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >R
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >M
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >M
                                  > >
                                  > >B
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >R
                                  > >
                                  > >T
                                  > >
                                  > >O
                                  > >
                                  > >U
                                  > >
                                  > >S
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >S
                                  > >
                                  > >P
                                  > >
                                  > >O
                                  > >
                                  > >I
                                  > >
                                  > >L
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >R
                                  > >
                                  > >S
                                  > >
                                  > >P
                                  > >
                                  > >A
                                  > >
                                  > >C
                                  > >
                                  > >E
                                  > >
                                  > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that
                                  > >note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can
                                  > >go
                                  > >back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames
                                  > >House
                                  > >and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.
                                  >
                                  > Forgive me for forgetting, but the guy who sat next to Jack, wasn't he in
                                  > one ep of Torchwood or DW (a few xmas specials ago... maybe the Titanic
                                  > one?) He looks so familiar.
                                  >
                                  > catzy
                                  >
                                  He is Midshipman Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode:
                                  http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Alonso_Frame
                                • Aimee Sattler
                                  I think he is from the BBC show where a vampire, werewolf and a ghost all live in the same house. He plays the werewolf.Also, he may have been one of the staff
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 4, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think he is from the BBC show where a vampire, werewolf and a ghost all live in the same house. He plays the werewolf.Also, he may have been one of the staff from the episode call " Ship of the Dammed" that is the one where the Doctor first meets Donna's grandfather. 

                                    --- On Sun, 1/3/10, sem <catz@...> wrote:

                                    From: sem <catz@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                    To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 9:10 AM
















                                     













                                    >-----Original Message-----

                                    >From: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com] On

                                    >Behalf Of Spankskin

                                    >Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39

                                    >To: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com

                                    >Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen

                                    >

                                    >See below!

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > _____

                                    >

                                    >From: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com] On

                                    >Behalf

                                    >Of ThistleThorne@ aol.com

                                    >Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24

                                    >To: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com

                                    >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >-----Original Message-----

                                    >From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrang e%40aol.com> aol.com>

                                    >To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com

                                    >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm

                                    >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen

                                    >

                                    >P

                                    >

                                    >L

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >A

                                    >

                                    >S

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >R

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >M

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >M

                                    >

                                    >B

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >R

                                    >

                                    >T

                                    >

                                    >O

                                    >

                                    >U

                                    >

                                    >S

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >S

                                    >

                                    >P

                                    >

                                    >O

                                    >

                                    >I

                                    >

                                    >L

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >R

                                    >

                                    >S

                                    >

                                    >P

                                    >

                                    >A

                                    >

                                    >C

                                    >

                                    >E

                                    >

                                    >!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

                                    >



                                    >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that

                                    >note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can

                                    >go

                                    >back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames

                                    >House

                                    >and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.



                                    Forgive me for forgetting, but the guy who sat next to Jack, wasn't he in

                                    one ep of Torchwood or DW (a few xmas specials ago... maybe the Titanic

                                    one?) He looks so familiar.



                                    catzy






























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Colleen Vandergriff
                                    Yes Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode. He was also in Being Human, he plays George. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 5, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Yes Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode. He was also in Being Human, he
                                      plays George.



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • md_moore42
                                      ... I think that he is still following the Time Lord rules: he pops back before he meets Rose. (Hence telling her that she will have a great year). He pops
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 5, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, ThistleThorne@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
                                        > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                                        > Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > P
                                        >
                                        > L
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > A
                                        >
                                        > S
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > R
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > M
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > M
                                        >
                                        > B
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > R
                                        >
                                        > T
                                        >
                                        > O
                                        >
                                        > U
                                        >
                                        > S
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > S
                                        >
                                        > P
                                        >
                                        > O
                                        >
                                        > I
                                        >
                                        > L
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > R
                                        >
                                        > S
                                        >
                                        > P
                                        >
                                        > A
                                        >
                                        > C
                                        >
                                        > E
                                        >
                                        > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                        >
                                        > Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful mess.
                                        >
                                        > ********************************************************
                                        > ********************************************************
                                        > ********************************************************
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let out a HUGE sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.
                                        >
                                        > One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can go back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames House and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.
                                        >


                                        I think that he is still following the Time Lord rules: he pops back before he meets Rose. (Hence telling her that she will have a great year). He pops ahead after his last contact with Mickey. He is making certain that he doesn't cross his own timeline.
                                      • md_moore42
                                        ... Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is one of the Time Lords?
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jan 5, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "wb2cjs" <wb2cjs@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "sem" <catz@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >-----Original Message-----
                                          > > >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          > > >Behalf Of Spankskin
                                          > > >Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 00:39
                                          > > >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > >Subject: RE: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                          > > >
                                          > > >See below!
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > _____
                                          > > >
                                          > > >From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          > > >Behalf
                                          > > >Of ThistleThorne@
                                          > > >Sent: zondag 3 januari 2010 4:24
                                          > > >To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >-----Original Message-----
                                          > > >From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ <mailto:TicTacOrange%40aol.com> aol.com>
                                          > > >To: torchwood@yahoogrou <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                          > > >Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                                          > > >Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                          > > >
                                          > > >P
                                          > > >
                                          > > >L
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >A
                                          > > >
                                          > > >S
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >R
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >M
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >M
                                          > > >
                                          > > >B
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >R
                                          > > >
                                          > > >T
                                          > > >
                                          > > >O
                                          > > >
                                          > > >U
                                          > > >
                                          > > >S
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >S
                                          > > >
                                          > > >P
                                          > > >
                                          > > >O
                                          > > >
                                          > > >I
                                          > > >
                                          > > >L
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >R
                                          > > >
                                          > > >S
                                          > > >
                                          > > >P
                                          > > >
                                          > > >A
                                          > > >
                                          > > >C
                                          > > >
                                          > > >E
                                          > > >
                                          > > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed was that
                                          > > >note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If the Doctor can
                                          > > >go
                                          > > >back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do was pop into Thames
                                          > > >House
                                          > > >and pull Ianto out before he died -- or fixed him -- or whatever.
                                          > >
                                          > > Forgive me for forgetting, but the guy who sat next to Jack, wasn't he in
                                          > > one ep of Torchwood or DW (a few xmas specials ago... maybe the Titanic
                                          > > one?) He looks so familiar.
                                          > >
                                          > > catzy
                                          > >
                                          > He is Midshipman Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode:
                                          > http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Alonso_Frame
                                          >


                                          Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is one of the Time Lords?
                                        • Maxime
                                          ... Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is one of the Time Lords? == That is a mystery... Julie Gardner and the actress who plays
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jan 5, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            >>> P
                                            >>> L
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> A
                                            >>> S
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> R
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> M
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> M
                                            >>> B
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> R
                                            >>> T
                                            >>> O
                                            >>> U
                                            >>> S
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> S
                                            >>> P
                                            >>> O
                                            >>> I
                                            >>> L
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> R
                                            >>> S
                                            >>> P
                                            >>> A
                                            >>> C
                                            >>> E
                                            >>> !!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

                                            Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is one
                                            of the Time Lords?
                                            ==
                                            That is a mystery... Julie Gardner and the actress who plays the time
                                            lady both think she is the Doctor's mom... RTD has alluded to it
                                            possibly being chancellor Flavia from the classic series. I think RTD
                                            left it a big blank on purpose so that SM can do something with it if he
                                            chooses.

                                            The problem with it being him mum is that it invalidates the canon
                                            established in the TVM that the Doctor is half human on his mother's
                                            side... but then a few things in the new series have messed with that
                                            before (Jenny/ metacrisis doctor)

                                            Another possiblility is that it is Romana III - she returned from espace
                                            and was president of the TLs in some of the novels. I suppose in a long
                                            stretch it could be the Rani as she is also a time lady... but what she
                                            would be doing back in the bosom of the time lords and trying to help
                                            the doctor?

                                            Time, hopefully, will reveal all.

                                            It would have to be someone who has a very close connection with the
                                            Doctor since she was able to break out of the time lock to contact Wilf.


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Robert A. Rosenberg
                                            At 16:51 +0000 on 01/05/2010, md_moore42 wrote about [torchwood] Re: ... Also note that it he is doing it as Doctor #10 so there is no Don t I know You?
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jan 5, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              At 16:51 +0000 on 01/05/2010, md_moore42 wrote about [torchwood] Re:
                                              END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't see:

                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- In
                                              ><mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com,
                                              >ThistleThorne@... wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> -----Original Message-----
                                              >> From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@...>
                                              >> To: <mailto:torchwood%40yahoogroups.com>torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm
                                              >> Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> P
                                              >>
                                              >> L
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> A
                                              >>
                                              >> S
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> R
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> M
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> M
                                              >>
                                              >> B
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> R
                                              >>
                                              >> T
                                              >>
                                              >> O
                                              >>
                                              >> U
                                              >>
                                              >> S
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> S
                                              >>
                                              >> P
                                              >>
                                              >> O
                                              >>
                                              >> I
                                              >>
                                              >> L
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> R
                                              >>
                                              >> S
                                              >>
                                              >> P
                                              >>
                                              >> A
                                              >>
                                              >> C
                                              >>
                                              >> E
                                              >>
                                              >> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                              >>
                                              >> Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see
                                              >>that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too
                                              >>much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of
                                              >>character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful
                                              >>mess.
                                              >>
                                              >> ********************************************************
                                              >> ********************************************************
                                              >> ********************************************************
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let
                                              >>out a HUGE sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.
                                              >>
                                              >> One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed
                                              >>was that note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If
                                              >>the Doctor can go back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do
                                              >>was pop into Thames House and pull Ianto out before he died -- or
                                              >>fixed him -- or whatever.
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >I think that he is still following the Time Lord rules: he pops back
                                              >before he meets Rose. (Hence telling her that she will have a great
                                              >year). He pops ahead after his last contact with Mickey. He is
                                              >making certain that he doesn't cross his own timeline.

                                              Also note that it he is doing it as Doctor #10 so there is no "Don't
                                              I know You?" problem when she eventually meets him as Doctor #9. They
                                              did do that with the meetings in "Smith and Jones" where Martha and
                                              the Doctor meet each other for the first time (from their
                                              perspective) after having already met (from the other's perspective).


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • scott mccowan
                                              SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILR ... I m just wondering if Alonso gonna take Into s place when/if Torchwood returns ... From: Robert A. Rosenberg
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jan 6, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILR

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >> P

                                                >>

                                                >> L

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> A

                                                >>

                                                >> S

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> R

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> M

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> M

                                                >>

                                                >> B

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> R

                                                >>

                                                >> T

                                                >>

                                                >> O

                                                >>

                                                >> U

                                                >>

                                                >> S

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> S

                                                >>

                                                >> P

                                                >>

                                                >> O

                                                >>

                                                >> I

                                                >>

                                                >> L

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> R

                                                >>

                                                >> S

                                                >>

                                                >> P

                                                >>

                                                >> A

                                                >>

                                                >> C

                                                >>

                                                >> E

                                                >>

                                                >> !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

                                                >>

                                                I'm just wondering if Alonso gonna take Into's place when/if Torchwood returns
                                                --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Robert A. Rosenberg <rarpsl@...> wrote:

                                                From: Robert A. Rosenberg <rarpsl@...>
                                                Subject: [torchwood] Re: END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen
                                                To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 12:58 PM
















                                                 









                                                At 16:51 +0000 on 01/05/2010, md_moore42 wrote about [torchwood] Re:

                                                END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't see:



                                                >

                                                >

                                                >

                                                >

                                                >--- In

                                                ><mailto:torchwood% 40yahoogroups. com>torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com,

                                                >ThistleThorne@ ... wrote:

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >> -----Original Message-----

                                                >> From: Leanne <TicTacOrange@ ...>

                                                >> To: <mailto:torchwood% 40yahoogroups. com>torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com

                                                >> Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 4:55 pm

                                                >> Subject: Re: [torchwood] END OF TIME - don't read if you haven't seen


                                                >> Found it. I agree... the one they chose was the best. I didn't see

                                                >>that much difference between 1/2 and 3... but 4 would have been too

                                                >>much. I agree with David that it would have been too out of

                                                >>character - and would have broken me down into a slobbering pitiful

                                                >>mess.

                                                >>

                                                >> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********

                                                >> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********

                                                >> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********

                                                >>

                                                >>

                                                >> I was already a slobbering mess by the time this happened. I let

                                                >>out a HUGE sob when the Doctor said he didn' t want to go.

                                                >>

                                                >> One thing in all the "Companion Good-byes" I would have changed

                                                >>was that note to Jack. It should have said "His name is Ianto." If

                                                >>the Doctor can go back to 2005 to see Rose, the least he could do

                                                >>was pop into Thames House and pull Ianto out before he died -- or

                                                >>fixed him -- or whatever.

                                                >>

                                                >

                                                >I think that he is still following the Time Lord rules: he pops back

                                                >before he meets Rose. (Hence telling her that she will have a great

                                                >year). He pops ahead after his last contact with Mickey. He is

                                                >making certain that he doesn't cross his own timeline.



                                                Also note that it he is doing it as Doctor #10 so there is no "Don't

                                                I know You?" problem when she eventually meets him as Doctor #9. They

                                                did do that with the meetings in "Smith and Jones" where Martha and

                                                the Doctor meet each other for the first time (from their

                                                perspective) after having already met (from the other's perspective) .



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • carriepalmer.geo
                                                ... It could also be Susan, The Doctor s Granddaughter. Canon says she fell in love and married a human, but she could have gone back to the TLs for the War.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jan 6, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Maxime <maxngerry@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > >>> P
                                                  > >>> L
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> A
                                                  > >>> S
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> R
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> M
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> M
                                                  > >>> B
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> R
                                                  > >>> T
                                                  > >>> O
                                                  > >>> U
                                                  > >>> S
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> S
                                                  > >>> P
                                                  > >>> O
                                                  > >>> I
                                                  > >>> L
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> R
                                                  > >>> S
                                                  > >>> P
                                                  > >>> A
                                                  > >>> C
                                                  > >>> E
                                                  > >>> !!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
                                                  >
                                                  > Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is one
                                                  > of the Time Lords?
                                                  > ==
                                                  > That is a mystery... Julie Gardner and the actress who plays the time
                                                  > lady both think she is the Doctor's mom... RTD has alluded to it
                                                  > possibly being chancellor Flavia from the classic series. I think RTD
                                                  > left it a big blank on purpose so that SM can do something with it if he
                                                  > chooses.
                                                  >
                                                  > The problem with it being him mum is that it invalidates the canon
                                                  > established in the TVM that the Doctor is half human on his mother's
                                                  > side... but then a few things in the new series have messed with that
                                                  > before (Jenny/ metacrisis doctor)
                                                  >
                                                  > Another possiblility is that it is Romana III - she returned from espace
                                                  > and was president of the TLs in some of the novels. I suppose in a long
                                                  > stretch it could be the Rani as she is also a time lady... but what she
                                                  > would be doing back in the bosom of the time lords and trying to help
                                                  > the doctor?
                                                  >
                                                  > Time, hopefully, will reveal all.
                                                  >
                                                  > It would have to be someone who has a very close connection with the
                                                  > Doctor since she was able to break out of the time lock to contact Wilf.
                                                  >
                                                  It could also be Susan, The Doctor's Granddaughter. Canon says she fell in love and married a human, but she could have gone back to the TLs for the War.
                                                • Joni
                                                  2010/1/5 Colleen Vandergriff ... Also - the female Cactus Alien is Sinead Keenan - she plays George s girlfriend Nina (who
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jan 6, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    2010/1/5 Colleen Vandergriff <colleen@...>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes Alonzo Frame from the Titanic episode. He was also in Being Human, he
                                                    > plays George.

                                                    Also - the female Cactus Alien is Sinead Keenan - she plays George's
                                                    girlfriend Nina (who potentially has a big plot development about to
                                                    happen). The new season of Being Human starts on the 10th if anyone
                                                    is interesting. Russell Tovey is awesome in it :)
                                                    Joni
                                                  • md_moore42
                                                    ... one ... time ... RTD ... if he ... that ... espace ... long ... she ... help ... Wilf. ... fell in love and married a human, but she could have gone back
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jan 7, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "carriepalmer.geo"
                                                      <carriepalmer.geo@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Maxime maxngerry@ wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > >>> P
                                                      > > >>> L
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> A
                                                      > > >>> S
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> R
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> M
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> M
                                                      > > >>> B
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> R
                                                      > > >>> T
                                                      > > >>> O
                                                      > > >>> U
                                                      > > >>> S
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> S
                                                      > > >>> P
                                                      > > >>> O
                                                      > > >>> I
                                                      > > >>> L
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> R
                                                      > > >>> S
                                                      > > >>> P
                                                      > > >>> A
                                                      > > >>> C
                                                      > > >>> E
                                                      > > >>> !!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and is
                                                      one
                                                      > > of the Time Lords?
                                                      > > ==
                                                      > > That is a mystery... Julie Gardner and the actress who plays the
                                                      time
                                                      > > lady both think she is the Doctor's mom... RTD has alluded to it
                                                      > > possibly being chancellor Flavia from the classic series. I think
                                                      RTD
                                                      > > left it a big blank on purpose so that SM can do something with it
                                                      if he
                                                      > > chooses.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > The problem with it being him mum is that it invalidates the canon
                                                      > > established in the TVM that the Doctor is half human on his mother's
                                                      > > side... but then a few things in the new series have messed with
                                                      that
                                                      > > before (Jenny/ metacrisis doctor)
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Another possiblility is that it is Romana III - she returned from
                                                      espace
                                                      > > and was president of the TLs in some of the novels. I suppose in a
                                                      long
                                                      > > stretch it could be the Rani as she is also a time lady... but what
                                                      she
                                                      > > would be doing back in the bosom of the time lords and trying to
                                                      help
                                                      > > the doctor?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Time, hopefully, will reveal all.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > It would have to be someone who has a very close connection with the
                                                      > > Doctor since she was able to break out of the time lock to contact
                                                      Wilf.
                                                      > >
                                                      > It could also be Susan, The Doctor's Granddaughter. Canon says she
                                                      fell in love and married a human, but she could have gone back to the
                                                      TLs for the War.
                                                      >



                                                      Well, I like the Romana idea and I like the Susan idea. I really
                                                      like the idea that RTD has left bobbles that future writers can pick up
                                                      and use or leave where they sit. Considering how many changes were made
                                                      from the classic Doctor, that's a gift. Not to say that I didn't like
                                                      the changes. It's more of an adult show now.

                                                      I missed the half-human business somewhere. I know that the American
                                                      reboot of the Doctor did that, but I thought that entire storyline was
                                                      jettisoned when the Brits took full control again. Personally, I don't
                                                      want the Doctor to be half-human. I love the idea that the Doctor's is
                                                      humanity's de Tocqueville.


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Leanne
                                                      mod - new message moved to end! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] RTD confirmed that the woman was the Doctor s mum.
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jan 12, 2010
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        mod - new message moved to end!
                                                        On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:39 AM, "md_moore42" <md_moore42@...> wrote:

                                                        >
                                                        > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "carriepalmer.geo"
                                                        > <carriepalmer.geo@...> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Maxime maxngerry@ wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > >>> P
                                                        > > > >>> L
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> A
                                                        > > > >>> S
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> R
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> M
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> M
                                                        > > > >>> B
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> R
                                                        > > > >>> T
                                                        > > > >>> O
                                                        > > > >>> U
                                                        > > > >>> S
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> S
                                                        > > > >>> P
                                                        > > > >>> O
                                                        > > > >>> I
                                                        > > > >>> L
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> R
                                                        > > > >>> S
                                                        > > > >>> P
                                                        > > > >>> A
                                                        > > > >>> C
                                                        > > > >>> E
                                                        > > > >>> !!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Then you can help me--who is the woman who uncovers her face and
                                                        > is
                                                        > one
                                                        > > > of the Time Lords?
                                                        > > > ==
                                                        > > > That is a mystery... Julie Gardner and the actress who plays the
                                                        > time
                                                        > > > lady both think she is the Doctor's mom... RTD has alluded to it
                                                        > > > possibly being chancellor Flavia from the classic series. I think
                                                        > RTD
                                                        > > > left it a big blank on purpose so that SM can do something with it
                                                        > if he
                                                        > > > chooses.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > The problem with it being him mum is that it invalidates the canon
                                                        > > > established in the TVM that the Doctor is half human on his
                                                        > mother's
                                                        > > > side... but then a few things in the new series have messed with
                                                        > that
                                                        > > > before (Jenny/ metacrisis doctor)
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Another possiblility is that it is Romana III - she returned from
                                                        > espace
                                                        > > > and was president of the TLs in some of the novels. I suppose in a
                                                        > long
                                                        > > > stretch it could be the Rani as she is also a time lady... but
                                                        > what
                                                        > she
                                                        > > > would be doing back in the bosom of the time lords and trying to
                                                        > help
                                                        > > > the doctor?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Time, hopefully, will reveal all.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > It would have to be someone who has a very close connection with
                                                        > the
                                                        > > > Doctor since she was able to break out of the time lock to contact
                                                        > Wilf.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > It could also be Susan, The Doctor's Granddaughter. Canon says she
                                                        > fell in love and married a human, but she could have gone back to the
                                                        > TLs for the War.
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > Well, I like the Romana idea and I like the Susan idea. I really
                                                        > like the idea that RTD has left bobbles that future writers can pick
                                                        > up
                                                        > and use or leave where they sit. Considering how many changes were
                                                        > made
                                                        > from the classic Doctor, that's a gift. Not to say that I didn't like
                                                        > the changes. It's more of an adult show now.
                                                        >
                                                        > I missed the half-human business somewhere. I know that the American
                                                        > reboot of the Doctor did that, but I thought that entire storyline was
                                                        > jettisoned when the Brits took full control again. Personally, I don't
                                                        > want the Doctor to be half-human. I love the idea that the Doctor's is
                                                        > humanity's de Tocqueville.
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >


                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                        RTD confirmed that the woman was the Doctor's mum.
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