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Re: [torchwood] Re: COE

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  • Daisy-Rose Skye
    I fully agree with you. Jack does what is necessary regardless of the price, even to himself.  If he had been given the knowledge he needed from the start he
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
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      I fully agree with you.

      Jack does what is necessary regardless of the price, even to himself.  If he had been given the knowledge he needed from the start he would have acted differently but would the outcome have been much different?
       Daisy-Rose Skye.


      Operation 'This Will Most Likely End Badly' is a go.


      At my age I have seen everything, done everything and heard everything.
      I just wish I could remember everything.




      ________________________________
      From: michele.briere <michele.briere@...>
      To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, 6 August, 2009 1:26:37 AM
      Subject: [torchwood] Re: COE

       
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      I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.

      TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.

      Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.

      As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.

      And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.

      Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.





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    • Em
      ... I have to disagree. I m a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it s the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
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        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "michele.briere" <michele.briere@...> wrote:
        >
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        > I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.
        >
        > TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.
        >
        > Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.
        >
        > As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.
        >
        > And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.
        >
        > Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.
        >

        I have to disagree. I'm a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it's the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If people don't care about the characters, then how can they care about the plot? I, personally, watch tv shows for the characters, not the setting. It's why, of all the Star Trek franchises, I was most drawn to Deep Space Nine and not the others. That show had to rely on well developed characters because they were land locked, so to speak.

        COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am unwilling to give him any more of my time.
      • Karen Harrington
        Spoiler space moved by mod... ... I agree with you about Jack having to sacirfice his own grandson.� At that point what could he do.� But I think he was
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
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          Spoiler space moved by mod...

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          I agree with you about Jack having to sacirfice his own grandson.� At that point what could he do.� But I think he was caught slipping for it to even get that far.
          �
          I also write and I can tell you now that without great characters you can not have a great story.� Both the characters and the plot are equally important.� I guarantee you that no one would have given a hoot about Ianto dying if he wasn't the likeable character that he is.� And no one would be disappointed in Jack for killing his own blood if he wasn't the swashbuckling hero that we all know and love.
          �
          The characters is what makes us care about the storyline in the first place.� But in the end, I have to thank you for your intelligent statements.� You really made me think.
          �
          karenisawirter@yahoo,com


          --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Em <em615@...> wrote:


          From: Em <em615@...>
          Subject: [torchwood] Re: COE
          To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:52 AM


          �



          --- In torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com, "michele.briere" <michele.briere@ ...> wrote:

          > I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.
          >
          > TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.
          >
          > Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.
          >
          > As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.
          >
          > And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.
          >
          > Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.
          >

          I have to disagree. I'm a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it's the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If people don't care about the characters, then how can they care about the plot? I, personally, watch tv shows for the characters, not the setting. It's why, of all the Star Trek franchises, I was most drawn to Deep Space Nine and not the others. That show had to rely on well developed characters because they were land locked, so to speak.

          COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am unwilling to give him any more of my time.



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sem
          ... Yes, it was awful losing 3 major characters so closely together, but it felt to me like RTD was closing up shop in case TW wasn t renewed. The end of
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
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            >
            >COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more
            >heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a
            >major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for
            >me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of
            >Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am
            >unwilling to give him any more of my time.

            Yes, it was awful losing 3 major characters so closely together, but it felt
            to me like RTD was closing up shop in case TW wasn't renewed. The end of
            Torchwood as an entity would have been a powerful way to end the series. So
            many series' endings tie everything up into happy little balls where
            everyone gets what they want and lives happily ever after. Torchwood never
            seemed like it would be one of those shows.

            c
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