Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [torchwood] Re: COE

Expand Messages
  • Amazon X
    Well said, and I heartily agree. More below the space... ________________________________ From: michele.briere To:
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Well said, and I heartily agree. More below the space...




      ________________________________
      From: michele.briere <michele.briere@...>
      To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:26:37 AM
      Subject: [torchwood] Re: COE

      S
      P
      O
      I
      L
      E
      R

      S
      P
      A
      C
      E

      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .

      I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.

      TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.

      Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.

      As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.

      And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.

      Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.

      **Dare I say it, RTD is a little cavalier with with our feelings, telling to just go watch something else, instead of being a little sorry for hurting our feelings, but in the end, ensemble cast shows have to have a shake up.

      Now, who wants to bet that when Jack comes back from wherever he is (I'll bet he's going to find the Doctor), Gwen will have a new Hub, new staff and new cases all going. I'm pretty sure of it, really.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • flashn9wdq@charter.net
      Well said! dennis
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Well said!

        dennis

        ---- Daisy-Rose Skye <daisyrose.skye@...> wrote:
        > Play nicely.  Torchwood is a tv show, not something to get too emotional over.  CoE is as it is and no amount of comment on our part is going to change that.
        >  Daisy-Rose Skye.
        >
        >
        > Operation 'This Will Most Likely End Badly' is a go.
        >
        >
        > At my age I have seen everything, done everything and heard everything.
        > I just wish I could remember everything.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: "flashn9wdq@..." <flashn9wdq@...>
        > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
        > Cc: Karel <jerseyjunior@...>
        > Sent: Tuesday, 4 August, 2009 8:42:08 PM
        > Subject: Re: [torchwood] COE
        >
        >  
        >
        > ---- Karel <jerseyjunior@ comcast.net> wrote:
        > > > Why are people so anxious to tell others how they should act and feel? I'm
        > > glad you liked it so much. I wish I had. I really dislike when people tell
        > > me to get over it. It's not your concern. I pay to watch this show, the
        > > writer gets paid to write it. Why can't the viewer say, hey, I didn't like
        > > that part? Do we have to follow along blindly like sheep all time?
        > >
        > See other comments left for different responder.
        >
        > > Let me ask you - did you watch season 1 and 2? Do you own the DVDs? Is COE
        > > the same universe as Torchwood storyline? Which way would you like TW4 to
        > > go? Back to the orginial premise?
        > >
        > Yes, i both watched and own TW 1 & 2. I also plan on purchasing the CD's of the 4 audio events. Yes, I believe that COE is in the same universe as the Torchwood storyline. Thus my comment as such. As for which way i would like TW 4 to go - no real thoughts there. Most likley up to the writer/s. It is sorta like asking me how I would have liked TW 2 to go after the ending of TW 1. I am not sure just what you mean by the original premise but am guessing you mean back to catching aliens and defending. Yeah, i liked that. I tend to like action stories more than deep political/emotional (yes, some is needed)/social stories (like how much of BSG was devoted to). All not very well said but I hope the thought is there.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________________________________________
        > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
        > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Daisy-Rose Skye
        I fully agree with you. Jack does what is necessary regardless of the price, even to himself.  If he had been given the knowledge he needed from the start he
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I fully agree with you.

          Jack does what is necessary regardless of the price, even to himself.  If he had been given the knowledge he needed from the start he would have acted differently but would the outcome have been much different?
           Daisy-Rose Skye.


          Operation 'This Will Most Likely End Badly' is a go.


          At my age I have seen everything, done everything and heard everything.
          I just wish I could remember everything.




          ________________________________
          From: michele.briere <michele.briere@...>
          To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 6 August, 2009 1:26:37 AM
          Subject: [torchwood] Re: COE

           
          S
          P
          O
          I
          L
          E
          R

          S
          P
          A
          C
          E

          .
          .
          .
          .
          .
          .
          .
          .
          .

          I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.

          TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.

          Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.

          As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.

          And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.

          Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.





          __________________________________________________________________________________
          Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
          Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Em
          ... I have to disagree. I m a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it s the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "michele.briere" <michele.briere@...> wrote:
            >
            > S
            > P
            > O
            > I
            > L
            > E
            > R
            >
            > S
            > P
            > A
            > C
            > E
            >
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            > .
            >
            > I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.
            >
            > TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.
            >
            > Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.
            >
            > As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.
            >
            > And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.
            >
            > Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.
            >

            I have to disagree. I'm a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it's the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If people don't care about the characters, then how can they care about the plot? I, personally, watch tv shows for the characters, not the setting. It's why, of all the Star Trek franchises, I was most drawn to Deep Space Nine and not the others. That show had to rely on well developed characters because they were land locked, so to speak.

            COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am unwilling to give him any more of my time.
          • Karen Harrington
            Spoiler space moved by mod... ... I agree with you about Jack having to sacirfice his own grandson.� At that point what could he do.� But I think he was
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Spoiler space moved by mod...

              > S
              > P
              > O
              > I
              > L
              > E
              > R
              >
              > S
              > P
              > A
              > C
              > E
              >
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              > .
              >

              I agree with you about Jack having to sacirfice his own grandson.� At that point what could he do.� But I think he was caught slipping for it to even get that far.
              �
              I also write and I can tell you now that without great characters you can not have a great story.� Both the characters and the plot are equally important.� I guarantee you that no one would have given a hoot about Ianto dying if he wasn't the likeable character that he is.� And no one would be disappointed in Jack for killing his own blood if he wasn't the swashbuckling hero that we all know and love.
              �
              The characters is what makes us care about the storyline in the first place.� But in the end, I have to thank you for your intelligent statements.� You really made me think.
              �
              karenisawirter@yahoo,com


              --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Em <em615@...> wrote:


              From: Em <em615@...>
              Subject: [torchwood] Re: COE
              To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:52 AM


              �



              --- In torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com, "michele.briere" <michele.briere@ ...> wrote:

              > I write, and I can tell you when writing a story, the main story line needs to be continued no matter which character it runs over. TW is about the story, not the character. When the story line needs a hit to keep it moving, or even sent into a new direction, characters are sacrificed. This is how it works.
              >
              > TW has always been about the storyline, not the characters. The main story line has always been built toward the day Earth enters the galactic playing field. The opening statement by Jack, at the beginning of every episode, states this.
              >
              > Yes, we are all unhappy at the loss of Ianto. Our hero has shown his feet of clay, too, by sacrificing his grandson. Taking in the cannon up til that point, what else could he have done? Stephen was the only child present. I don't know why this is a difficult fact for people to process. It came down to one child or millions. You make the choice. Would you truly sacrifice millions of children, which would have included your grandchild anyway when you could have saved millions with the sacrifice of one? Jack did the only thing he could.
              >
              > As for Jack and the radio frequency -give the guy a break. He was blown up. I'm sure his brains were still a little scrambled.
              >
              > And Jack is obviously in pain over these two deaths, as well as his daughter turning her back on him. Yes, he left. But the bigger question is why. Is he running? Or is he going to go and do something about it? If I were writing Jack from this point, I'd send him gunning for the 456.
              >
              > Yes, RTD has a bad habit of steamrolling over our feelings for the characters. Yes, we are hurting for the loss of Ianto. At the end of the day, it's still just a tv show. And a sign of excellent writing is when it brings out peoples' feelings.
              >

              I have to disagree. I'm a writer, too; and while the storyline is important, it's the characters that make or break a show (or, in my case, a play). If people don't care about the characters, then how can they care about the plot? I, personally, watch tv shows for the characters, not the setting. It's why, of all the Star Trek franchises, I was most drawn to Deep Space Nine and not the others. That show had to rely on well developed characters because they were land locked, so to speak.

              COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am unwilling to give him any more of my time.



















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • sem
              ... Yes, it was awful losing 3 major characters so closely together, but it felt to me like RTD was closing up shop in case TW wasn t renewed. The end of
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                >> S
                >> P
                >> O
                >> I
                >> L
                >> E
                >> R
                >>
                >> S
                >> P
                >> A
                >> C
                >> E
                >>
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .>> S
                >> P
                >> O
                >> I
                >> L
                >> E
                >> R
                >>
                >> S
                >> P
                >> A
                >> C
                >> E
                >>
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >> .
                >>
                >>
                >
                >COE was so full of major plot holes, RTD really needed to bank more
                >heavily on his characters. I think he failed miserably. Killing off a
                >major character immediately after offing two others ruined the show for
                >me. Good drama comes from conflict, not senseless death. Children of
                >Earth was melodrama. Add to that RTD's disdain for his fans, and I am
                >unwilling to give him any more of my time.

                Yes, it was awful losing 3 major characters so closely together, but it felt
                to me like RTD was closing up shop in case TW wasn't renewed. The end of
                Torchwood as an entity would have been a powerful way to end the series. So
                many series' endings tie everything up into happy little balls where
                everyone gets what they want and lives happily ever after. Torchwood never
                seemed like it would be one of those shows.

                c
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.