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Re: [torchwood] Re:Group Moderator Re Spoilers

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  • Craig J. Ries
    ... Apparently, netiquette is exceedingly painful for many of you... and for the life of me, I can t figure out why. Nobody is asking you to NOT discuss the
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 4 6:07 AM
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      Michelle Gauvreau wrote:
      >
      > it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.

      Apparently, netiquette is exceedingly painful for many of you... and for
      the life of me, I can't figure out why.

      Nobody is asking you to NOT discuss the episode... simply give courtesy
      to those of who have busy lives and aren't up to the minute on
      everything Torchwood.

      And courtesy simply means spoiler space, both with the titles by not
      discussing spoilers in said titles, and using spoiler space in your posts.

      But if entering in 20 blank lines causes you that much pain, then
      perhaps you should be the one to leave the group?

      > By the time Season 2 is on DVD it won't be interesting to discuss
      > anymore.

      Just because it isn't to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be for somebody else.

      Craig J. Ries
    • Elizabeth Holden
      ... Yes - what s difficult about a spoiler warning? This sounds like fair and normal usage to me. namaste, Elizabeth
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 4 6:44 AM
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        --- Michelle Gauvreau <gauvreauma@...> wrote:

        > Essentially then, it's not cool to discuss Season 2 in any manner unless a Spoiler warning is
        > posted first?

        Yes - what's difficult about a spoiler warning? This sounds like fair and normal usage to me.

        namaste,
        Elizabeth
      • CJ
        Lurker here. There is a solution to this dilemma. There are many spoiler groups for various shows on yahoo. If people on the list can t find one, why
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 4 7:19 AM
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          Lurker here. There is a solution to this dilemma. There are many spoiler groups for various shows on yahoo. If people on the list can't find one, why doesn't someone start one for those who want to discuss things right away? Just a thought. :-) :-)

          CJ


          "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...> wrote:
          Michelle Gauvreau wrote:
          >
          > it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.

          Apparently, netiquette is exceedingly painful for many of you... and for
          the life of me, I can't figure out why.

          Nobody is asking you to NOT discuss the episode... simply give courtesy
          to those of who have busy lives and aren't up to the minute on
          everything Torchwood.

          And courtesy simply means spoiler space, both with the titles by not
          discussing spoilers in said titles, and using spoiler space in your posts.

          But if entering in 20 blank lines causes you that much pain, then
          perhaps you should be the one to leave the group?

          > By the time Season 2 is on DVD it won't be interesting to discuss
          > anymore.

          Just because it isn't to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be for somebody else.

          Craig J. Ries



          Yahoo! Groups Links






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michelle Gauvreau
          I love the way you gleaned half a sentence from my entire post to formulate your response. My message was NOT about warning readers regarding spoiler space.
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 5 4:28 AM
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            I love the way you gleaned half a sentence from my entire post to formulate your response. My message was NOT about warning readers regarding spoiler space. It was about shortening the length of time an episode remains "taboo" to discuss openly. You insulted me for having an opinion that differs from yours. That, I believe, is poor net-iquette. To suggest I leave the group for having this opinion that differs from yours is beyond insulting. Firstly, I never suggested anyone leave if they didn't like something. That retort was simply immature of you.

            Read and understand before you blast off insults. No person on this list should be attacked for having an opinion. My opinion is that 5 to 6 months of marking *spoiler space* when discussing anything regarding Season 2 seems lengthy. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of doing so. Check your listening skills and spring on your trigger. Both seem a little out of whack.

            Michelle in Memphis.



            www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michelle Gauvreau
            I appreciate your level-headed response in this discussion . I ve only been a member of one other television program s discussion group. At that group they
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 5 4:38 AM
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              I appreciate your level-headed response in this 'discussion'. I've only been a member of one other television program's discussion group. At that group they waited one week to discuss a new episode. I'm a member of this group and will abide by the guidelines here. It won't stop me from having a different opinion.

              If you can see it from the other side (mine) every time I see the word SPOILER I don't read the message. *SPOILER* doesn't identify the content of the message, it just says you might not want to read this if you don't want to know what I'm writing. What if you have an inside scoop from the grapevine (which is what I've called *spoiler* in the past when talking about Buffy episodes) Some people have connections and have information before the rest of the group could possibly know.

              I'm only saying that 3 months from now, discussing "Kiss Kiss BANG BANG!" probably isn't a spoiler for any 'fan' of the show. I certainly appreciate people with busy lives, and those in places that don't receive the broadcasts for a while after they're aired. Anyone who doesn't see them until they're out on DVD probably hasn't had time to watch all the episodes in Season I yet so we should probably still consider that spoiler material?

              There's nothing hard about saying spoiler. But it seems everything to date can be considered a spoiler for somebody. It's just an opinion and I'm not trying to change the way this group runs. It's no problem to say SPOILER before I post anything regarding any episode. It's not the time it takes and it's very little trouble. Maybe there are others like me who will not read anything that says SPOILER because it could be speculation or inside information. There are two sides to the argument and I'm in the minority. No problem.

              REPEAT, just an opinion. I have no design on changing the way this group runs.

              Michelle in Memphis



              www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

              ---------------------------------
              Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Craig J. Ries
              ... If you re referring to my post, I don t think I have. As it is, and it s a bit of netiquette you re failing to use, you re not quoting any previous posts,
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 5 6:15 AM
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                Michelle Gauvreau wrote:
                >
                > Read and understand before you blast off insults.

                If you're referring to my post, I don't think I have. As it is, and it's
                a bit of netiquette you're failing to use, you're not quoting any
                previous posts, thus it's very difficult to figure out who you are
                actually replying to.

                You claim you are being censored because you have to use spoiler space
                more than 3 weeks after the episode airs. Yet you say your post has
                nothing to do with the use of spoiler space... it very much does indeed
                have to do with it.

                Simply put, we've got fans of Torchwood on this group from all over the
                world, and Benjamin's policy is designed to be inclusive of those
                people, not exclusive. It's simple recognition of the fact that not
                everybody is as fortunate as those of us who are getting the episodes
                right away.

                And yes, I agree with you: the best way to handle it is to simply put
                the title of the episode as the subject line, then go with spoiler space
                from there. That way, you can nail down rather quickly what the post is
                about.

                And no, I didn't say you should leave the list because I disagree with
                you; you should consider leave the list if you do not like the fact that
                the spoiler policy doesn't cater to you.

                Craig J. Ries
              • beatlefanfcb
                ... released, I think it s fair to wait a week or two after an episode has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are the UK and US. If
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 5 7:22 AM
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                  > While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has just been
                  released, I think it's fair to wait a week or two after an episode
                  has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are
                  the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to
                  get telecast it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.

                  I live in the US and I am embarassed by this posting. I apologize
                  to any one on this list who lives outside the US and UK. I am sure
                  this list has members from countries around the world and the
                  spoiler rules that have been suggested are quite reasonable and
                  designed to acknowledge the participation of all, no matter which
                  country you live in.

                  Most Americans do not think of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and
                  New Zealand as third world countries. Some of us even think that
                  most of those countries are more cultured than the US and certainly
                  people in a lot of other countries behave in a more civil maner than
                  we often do in the US.

                  I am on a John Barrowman list that seems to be run exclusively for
                  those living in the UK. There are frequent posts from people living
                  in the UK sneering at Americans and at those who do not live in
                  Britain. I hate to see people who live outside the US made to feel
                  that they are unwelcome or unequal participants on this list.

                  Frank Caesar Branchini
                  Edgewater, MD, USA
                • majkia
                  much of Europe gets BBC. my friend in the Netherlands gets Torchwood and Dr Who the same time the UK does. Majkia ... -- ~~~~~~~~~ Bloggy Bayou:
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 5 7:26 AM
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                    much of Europe gets BBC. my friend in the Netherlands gets Torchwood and Dr
                    Who the same time the UK does.

                    Majkia

                    On Feb 5, 2008 9:22 AM, beatlefanfcb <beatlefanfcb@...> wrote:

                    > > While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has just been
                    > released, I think it's fair to wait a week or two after an episode
                    > has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are
                    > the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to
                    > get telecast it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.
                    >
                    > I live in the US and I am embarassed by this posting. I apologize
                    > to any one on this list who lives outside the US and UK. I am sure
                    > this list has members from countries around the world and the
                    > spoiler rules that have been suggested are quite reasonable and
                    > designed to acknowledge the participation of all, no matter which
                    > country you live in.
                    >
                    > Most Americans do not think of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and
                    > New Zealand as third world countries. Some of us even think that
                    > most of those countries are more cultured than the US and certainly
                    > people in a lot of other countries behave in a more civil maner than
                    > we often do in the US.
                    >
                    > I am on a John Barrowman list that seems to be run exclusively for
                    > those living in the UK. There are frequent posts from people living
                    > in the UK sneering at Americans and at those who do not live in
                    > Britain. I hate to see people who live outside the US made to feel
                    > that they are unwelcome or unequal participants on this list.
                    >
                    > Frank Caesar Branchini
                    > Edgewater, MD, USA
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    ~~~~~~~~~
                    Bloggy Bayou: http://www.majkia.livejournal.com

                    Vampires, Werewolves and Mages Oh My! http://www.quillings.wikispaces.com
                    ~~~~~~~~~


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Blue Rose
                    ... Agreed. Sarcasm or not, there are people who won t get that the comment was maybe meant as a humorous aside and will take offense. I know of many people
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 5 7:30 AM
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                      On Feb 5, 2008 10:22 AM, beatlefanfcb <beatlefanfcb@...> wrote:

                      > > While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has just been
                      > released, I think it's fair to wait a week or two after an episode
                      > has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are
                      > the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to
                      > get telecast it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.
                      >
                      > I live in the US and I am embarassed by this posting. I apologize
                      > to any one on this list who lives outside the US and UK. I am sure
                      > this list has members from countries around the world and the
                      > spoiler rules that have been suggested are quite reasonable and
                      > designed to acknowledge the participation of all, no matter which
                      > country you live in.
                      >
                      Agreed. Sarcasm or not, there are people who won't get that the comment was
                      maybe meant as a humorous aside and will take offense. I know of many
                      people who are neither in the US nor in the UK who are Torchwood and Doctor
                      Who fans. Also, there are people who *don't watch the episodes right
                      away*! and it's only fair to those people to have spoiler warnings just in
                      case. I'm one of those people. I want to be surprised when I finally
                      manage to sit down and see the episode, and have no desire to avoid my email
                      in the meantime.

                      It's a matter of politeness.

                      -Andrea, hailing from Boston, MA.


                      --
                      Email: bluerose156@...
                      AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156
                      http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • franklin knowlton
                      Frank knowlton here in maine usa i agree with you just beacuse we are not british doesn`t mean we are second class citizens. we should look at everyones
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 5 9:41 AM
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                        Frank knowlton here in maine usa i agree with you just
                        beacuse we are not british doesn`t mean we are second
                        class citizens. we should look at everyones opinions
                        and then make up our minds from there.
                        P.S i am a big fan of the beatles ,doctor who and torchwood

                        He who hesitates is sometimes saved.



                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                      • dizzheart@aol.com
                        In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:38:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, gauvreauma@yahoo.com writes: But it seems everything to date can be considered a spoiler for
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 5 12:47 PM
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                          In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:38:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                          gauvreauma@... writes:

                          But it seems everything to date can be considered a spoiler for somebody. >>

                          You made me laugh, Michelle, recalling the time I got flamed on another list
                          for suggesting that spoiler warnings should not be necessary for a book
                          that's been more or less continuously in print for 53 years, on a list devoted to
                          this author's genre where most members knew her works thoroughly off the
                          tops of their heads -- by one member who had not yet come across an audio copy
                          of this particular title.

                          Janice





                          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                          (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                          48)


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Blue Rose
                          You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use: http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408 ... -- Email: bluerose156@gmail.com AIM: A Blue
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 5 12:53 PM
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                            You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use:

                            http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408

                            On Feb 5, 2008 3:47 PM, <dizzheart@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:38:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                            > gauvreauma@... writes:
                            >
                            > But it seems everything to date can be considered a spoiler for somebody.
                            > >>
                            >
                            > You made me laugh, Michelle, recalling the time I got flamed on another
                            > list
                            > for suggesting that spoiler warnings should not be necessary for a book
                            > that's been more or less continuously in print for 53 years, on a list
                            > devoted to
                            > this author's genre where most members knew her works thoroughly off the
                            > tops of their heads -- by one member who had not yet come across an audio
                            > copy
                            > of this particular title.
                            >
                            > Janice
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                            > (
                            > http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                            > 48)
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --
                            Email: bluerose156@...
                            AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156
                            http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • dizzheart@aol.com
                            In a message dated 2/5/2008 12:54:20 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bluerose156@gmail.com writes: You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use:
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 5 12:56 PM
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                              In a message dated 2/5/2008 12:54:20 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                              bluerose156@... writes:

                              You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use:

                              _http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408_
                              (http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408) >>


                              That *is* funny :)

                              The spoiler issue on this list hasn't been a problem for me, since I just
                              skip all the messages about episodes I haven't seen yet. Doesn't seem that
                              tough to do.

                              Janice







                              **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                              (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                              48)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Blue Rose
                              That s because you re using a different email reader. On gmail, I get a one line summary of the tops of all of the emails I get, so avoiding spoilers becomes
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 5 1:05 PM
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                                That's because you're using a different email reader. On gmail, I get a one
                                line summary of the tops of all of the emails I get, so avoiding spoilers
                                becomes problematic.

                                So if I get an email where the top is something like, "Oh no! Major
                                character died, oh noooo" that about kills my day and spoils me before I can
                                watch the ep. :(

                                I think a 1-3 week grace period is quite plenty and gives people a chance to
                                catch up. I don't know how the schedules are for other countries and how
                                long it takes for them to get an episode. I have friends overseas so I can
                                stay on top of Doctor Who that way, but not everyone is so fortunate. :(

                                On Feb 5, 2008 3:56 PM, <dizzheart@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > In a message dated 2/5/2008 12:54:20 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                > bluerose156@... writes:
                                >
                                > You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use:
                                >
                                > _http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408_
                                > (http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408) >>
                                >
                                >
                                > That *is* funny :)
                                >
                                > The spoiler issue on this list hasn't been a problem for me, since I just
                                > skip all the messages about episodes I haven't seen yet. Doesn't seem
                                > that
                                > tough to do.
                                >
                                > Janice
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                                > (
                                > http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                                > 48)
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                --
                                Email: bluerose156@...
                                AIM: A Blue Rose 156 YM: blue_rose_156
                                http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Elizabeth Holden
                                ... That s beautiful! I love it! I think I might make one that says: HAMLET DIES Or maybe MACBETH IS DOOMED namaste, Elizabeth
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 5 1:21 PM
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                                  --- Blue Rose <bluerose156@...> wrote:

                                  > You strike me as someone who would LOVE this LJ icon I use:
                                  >
                                  > http://userpic.livejournal.com/48909963/10634408

                                  That's beautiful! I love it!

                                  I think I might make one that says: HAMLET DIES

                                  Or maybe MACBETH IS DOOMED

                                  namaste,
                                  Elizabeth
                                • Diorite Gabbro
                                  ... Except when someone puts the spoiler in the subject line, as is the case in the post which started this. Diorite
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 5 4:08 PM
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                                    --- dizzheart@... wrote:

                                    > The spoiler issue on this list hasn't been a
                                    > problem for me, since I just
                                    > skip all the messages about episodes I haven't seen
                                    > yet. Doesn't seem that
                                    > tough to do.
                                    >
                                    > Janice
                                    >

                                    Except when someone puts the spoiler in the subject
                                    line, as is the case in the post which started this.

                                    Diorite
                                  • dizzheart@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:08:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, diorite@yahoo.com writes: Except when someone puts the spoiler in the subject line, as is the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 5 4:15 PM
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                                      In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:08:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                      diorite@... writes:

                                      Except when someone puts the spoiler in the subject
                                      line, as is the case in the post which started this. >>


                                      Well, that's dopey anyway -- if someone gives away the entire point of the
                                      post in the subject line, how are they going to get people to bother to read
                                      the whole thing? :)

                                      Since I didn't notice the spoiler, and I do look at at least the title of
                                      every post -- I'd say my personal screening system works OK for me.

                                      Janice







                                      **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                                      (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                                      48)


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Michelle Gauvreau
                                      Posted by: Slida slida@chariot.net.au orgslida Tue Feb 5, 2008 2:18 am (PST) The 2 major markets for this show are the UK and US. If third world
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 5 4:25 PM
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                                        Posted by: "Slida" slida@... orgslida Tue Feb 5, 2008 2:18 am (PST) The 2 major markets for this show are the UK and US. If third world
                                        countries (sarcasm) take months to get telecast it's unreasonable to
                                        censor everyone in the meantime.

                                        <<Oh, for crying out loud – how egotistical are you? You’re on a public
                                        forum, sweetums, get use to having to comply with simple requests to be
                                        respectful of others! >>

                                        ***
                                        WOW, you guys are totally harsh! Sweetums, huh? How condescending can you be? Does anyone here understand the concept of discussion, entertaining another person's viewpoint, and responding without personal attacks?

                                        I, personally have no desire to be disrespectful of others and go out of my way to ensure I follow guidelines of any public forum to which I have membership. The same follows for this group. Have I ever posted a word about a specific episode? No. If I did would it be painful to say "spoiler space" and <CR> 20 times before I begin a post about an episode? NO. Did I say that at any point? NO.

                                        If 6 months is suggested as the appropriate time to consider discussion of any specific episode a SPOILER then that's the timeline given and that's the timeline I will follow. Nobody here is entitled to dish out crap because I happen to think it's lengthy. The mods know what's up and I respect their rules. God forbid I should crawl up beside everyone and say EXACTLY, EXACTLY, PERFECT, PERFECT. It is what it is.
                                        **********************

                                        <<Oh Goody – ‘cos so was I! Here’s mine: the rest of the world does not
                                        have to cow-tow to the egomanic ameican on this list…
                                        Thanks for listening,>>


                                        WOW again! having an opinion makes me an ego-maniac American? You interested in a good brawl or something? Harsh, very harsh dear. Cool down, chill out. You seem to be pole-vaulting over a mouse turd. I didn't insult your mother or anything, got it? Relax a little. Get it in perspective.


                                        <<So, you were saying something??
                                        Leanne in one of those ‘third World countries…… ??

                                        *** I did put the word (sarcasm) in parentheses after I said that. I did mean it as sarcasm entirely. If you wish to put it in a different context have at it. Again, relax. It was a joke and netiquettely labeled such. Geeesh! ***

                                        Michelle, the Egotistical American in Memphis



                                        www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

                                        ---------------------------------
                                        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Michelle Gauvreau
                                        Posted by: beatlefanfcb beatlefanfcb@verizon.net beatlefanfcb Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:22 am (PST) While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 5 4:40 PM
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                                          Posted by: "beatlefanfcb" beatlefanfcb@... beatlefanfcb Tue Feb 5, 2008 7:22 am (PST) > While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has just been
                                          released, I think it's fair to wait a week or two after an episode
                                          has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are
                                          the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to
                                          get telecast it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.

                                          <<<I live in the US and I am embarassed by this posting. I apologize
                                          to any one on this list who lives outside the US and UK. I am sure
                                          this list has members from countries around the world and the
                                          spoiler rules that have been suggested are quite reasonable and
                                          designed to acknowledge the participation of all, no matter which
                                          country you live in.

                                          Most Americans do not think of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and
                                          New Zealand as third world countries. Some of us even think that
                                          most of those countries are more cultured than the US and certainly
                                          people in a lot of other countries behave in a more civil maner than
                                          we often do in the US.

                                          I am on a John Barrowman list that seems to be run exclusively for
                                          those living in the UK. There are frequent posts from people living
                                          in the UK sneering at Americans and at those who do not live in
                                          Britain. I hate to see people who live outside the US made to feel
                                          that they are unwelcome or unequal participants on this list.

                                          Frank Caesar Branchini
                                          Edgewater, MD, USA >>>>

                                          S-A-R-C-A-S-M ! ! ! It was meant as a stretch of reality. If I must publicy apologize for using that word then here is my apology. When I said "third world countries" it was intended as an analogy. As if to say "the farthest remote tropical island in the deepest corner of the universe" It was not meant to stab or insult anyone in any country who does not recieve transmission of Torchwood within years of initial airing. I apologize if anyone took that remark as an insult as I did not intend it as such. Every person who enjoys the show is equally as important as the next person no matter where you live or when you receive telecast of the programme. I apologize for embarassing Frank Ceasar Branchini by use of sarcasm. I do not represent all of America or every American when I post. So you may cast your aspersions on me alone and do not lump any other American into the pit of greivous offenders I seem to have slipped into unintentionally.

                                          On the other side, the responses I've read shed no light on brotherly love, understanding or forgiveness. You all are ready for a good stoning it seems. Whatever country you're from, do you stop and try to understand somebody before you berate them? Yikes. I had no idea a simple opinion could offend so many so deeply. It seems I've cut deep into your personal space and so I do apologize. I've really hit some massive nerve with an opinion I never thought would be so critical to so many. I'll be much more careful from now on when posting an opinion.

                                          Apologies to everyone I've offended. Sincerely, it was unknowingly done. I had no idea that thinking 6 months is a long time to keep episode content secret (or labeled to prevent spoilage) was such a sensitive subject. To me it was really a trivial opinion, and in having this opinion I did not wish to offend anyone who does NOT have the same opinion. To those who I have offended I deeply apologize. I plan to follow the group guidelines and promise never to voice an opinion that suggests I differ in thinking from those guidelines. In doing such I have massively offended those on other continents and embarassed my fellow Americans. Please accept the olive branch. I will not offend in any similar manner again.

                                          Michelle






                                          www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

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                                        • Michelle Gauvreau
                                          ... Agreed. Sarcasm or not, there are people who won t get that the comment was maybe meant as a humorous aside and will take offense. I know of many people
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 5 4:45 PM
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                                            <<<On Feb 5, 2008 10:22 AM, beatlefanfcb <beatlefanfcb@ verizon.net> wrote:

                                            > > While I agree spoilers are irksome when an episode has just been
                                            > released, I think it's fair to wait a week or two after an episode
                                            > has aired to open discussion. The 2 major markets for this show are
                                            > the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to
                                            > get telecast it's unreasonable to censor everyone in the meantime.
                                            >
                                            > I live in the US and I am embarassed by this posting. I apologize
                                            > to any one on this list who lives outside the US and UK. I am sure
                                            > this list has members from countries around the world and the
                                            > spoiler rules that have been suggested are quite reasonable and
                                            > designed to acknowledge the participation of all, no matter which
                                            > country you live in.
                                            >
                                            Agreed. Sarcasm or not, there are people who won't get that the comment was
                                            maybe meant as a humorous aside and will take offense. I know of many
                                            people who are neither in the US nor in the UK who are Torchwood and Doctor
                                            Who fans. Also, there are people who *don't watch the episodes right
                                            away*! and it's only fair to those people to have spoiler warnings just in
                                            case. I'm one of those people. I want to be surprised when I finally
                                            manage to sit down and see the episode, and have no desire to avoid my email
                                            in the meantime.

                                            It's a matter of politeness.

                                            -Andrea, hailing from Boston, MA.>>>

                                            I apologize to you as well Andrea. I understand completely where you're coming from and I agree. Nobody enjoys their viewing event being splattered with hints or totally exposed before they've seen it. I completely effed up and it won't happen again! I just want to make sure everyone understands I didn't want to offend anyone, I just wanted to say I thought 6 - 8months was a long time to imagine rabid fans not getting the viewership of one of their favorite shows. If I can help anyone out with DVDs please let me know. I wouldn't want to wait that long to see the show, and I'd be glad to help out anyone who does have to wait that long if possible.

                                            Michelle (formerly hailed from Newton, MA)




                                            www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

                                            ---------------------------------
                                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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                                          • Michelle Gauvreau
                                            ... Yes - what s difficult about a spoiler warning? This sounds like fair and normal usage to me. namaste, Elizabeth Nothing difficult. No problem at all. I
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 5 4:51 PM
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                                              --- Michelle Gauvreau <gauvreauma@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                              > Essentially then, it's not cool to discuss Season 2 in any manner unless a Spoiler warning is
                                              > posted first?

                                              Yes - what's difficult about a spoiler warning? This sounds like fair and normal usage to me.

                                              namaste,
                                              Elizabeth


                                              Nothing difficult. No problem at all. I think I meant to say "Season 1" however. Probably any discussion of any episode in any season should be considered spoiler as some may not have had time to view their entire DVD package since it was only made available in January. It's very possible, yes?

                                              No offense intented and advance apologies if I've done it again. :o)

                                              Michelle



                                              www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

                                              ---------------------------------
                                              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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                                            • Michelle Gauvreau
                                              Posted by: dizzheart@aol.com dizzheart@aol.com dizzheart Tue Feb 5, 2008 12:47 pm (PST) In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:38:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 5 5:10 PM
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                                                Posted by: "dizzheart@..." dizzheart@... dizzheart Tue Feb 5, 2008 12:47 pm (PST)

                                                In a message dated 2/5/2008 4:38:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                gauvreauma@yahoo. com writes:

                                                But it seems everything to date can be considered a spoiler for somebody. >>

                                                <<<You made me laugh, Michelle, recalling the time I got flamed on another list
                                                for suggesting that spoiler warnings should not be necessary for a book
                                                that's been more or less continuously in print for 53 years, on a list devoted to
                                                this author's genre where most members knew her works thoroughly off the
                                                tops of their heads -- by one member who had not yet come across an audio copy
                                                of this particular title.

                                                Janice>>>

                                                May the supreme being of your choice bless your day Janice. You made me feel human again! SOMEBODY understood what I was saying. THANK YOU! :O)

                                                Michelle




                                                www.batteriesdirect.com batteries cheaper than retail FREE S&H!!! No incentive given for telling you. Take back respect for your time & money. Frequent merchants who don't artificially inflate shipping and handling costs for profit. Sincerely, Michelle

                                                ---------------------------------
                                                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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                                              • Slida
                                                The 2 major markets for this show are the UK and US. If third world countries (sarcasm) take months to get telecast it s unreasonable to censor everyone in the
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 5 8:44 PM
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                                                  The 2 major markets for this show are the UK and US. If third world
                                                  countries (sarcasm) take months to get telecast it's unreasonable to
                                                  censor everyone in the meantime.
                                                  Oh, for crying out loud � how egotistical are you? You�re on a public
                                                  forum, sweetums, get use to having to comply with simple requests to be
                                                  respectful of others!
                                                  I'm not disagreeing with you, just expressing an opinion.
                                                  Oh Goody � �cos so was I! Here�s mine: the rest of the world does not
                                                  have to cow-tow to the egomanic ameican on this list�
                                                  Thanks for listening,
                                                  So, you were saying something??
                                                  Leanne in one of those �third World countries��

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                                                • Blue Rose
                                                  Hey, no sweat... I wasn t offended in the least, and while I can understand the annoyance of doing spoiler warnings as far as six months past the episode,
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Feb 6 5:12 AM
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                                                    Hey, no sweat... I wasn't offended in the least, and while I can understand
                                                    the annoyance of doing spoiler warnings as far as six months past the
                                                    episode, imagine the annoyance of the people who have to wait THAT LONG to
                                                    watch their favorite show.

                                                    In any case...it's annoying on both sides, but I think I'll sympathize
                                                    heavier with the people who haven't been able to find a way to watch it yet.




                                                    On Feb 5, 2008 7:45 PM, Michelle Gauvreau <gauvreauma@...> wrote:

                                                    >
                                                    > I apologize to you as well Andrea. I understand completely where you're
                                                    > coming from and I agree. Nobody enjoys their viewing event being splattered
                                                    > with hints or totally exposed before they've seen it. I completely effed up
                                                    > and it won't happen again! I just want to make sure everyone understands I
                                                    > didn't want to offend anyone, I just wanted to say I thought 6 - 8months was
                                                    > a long time to imagine rabid fans not getting the viewership of one of their
                                                    > favorite shows. If I can help anyone out with DVDs please let me know. I
                                                    > wouldn't want to wait that long to see the show, and I'd be glad to help out
                                                    > anyone who does have to wait that long if possible.
                                                    >
                                                    >



                                                    --
                                                    Email: bluerose156@...
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                                                    http://x-bluerose-x.livejournal.com


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