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Re: [torchwood] Voyage of the Damned review

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  • Will Vigar
    ... -- A Knife and Fork in a World of Soup [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 26, 2007
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      On 26/12/2007, Craig J. Ries <silvanthalas@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's my review from another list:
      >
      > SPOILER SPACE
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      > Don't care for the new opening music.
      >



      ***I quite agree. I wish they'd stop tinkering with it. My favourite bit
      > of musical punctuation (two gorgeous brass stabs) have been removed and it
      > sounds sort of hurried and messy...nothing has tus far eaten the first
      > version from the new run with te wonderful tuned percussion....which was
      > removed after about 5 episodes! Gah!
      >
      > In particular, I liked Mr. Copper. He was a great character,
      > well-written throughout the episode, and especially at the end.
      >



      ***yeah, I get te impression we haven't seen the last of him. No the ernard
      > Cribbins character...
      >
      --
      "A Knife and Fork in a World of Soup"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • msunshne
      Really the only good thing that came out of it is I can t stop saying Bavacavalatta. *or however you spell it*. lol
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 26, 2007
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        Really the only good thing that came out of it is
        I can't stop saying Bavacavalatta. *or however
        you spell it*. lol


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      • Stuart Grant
        S P O I L E R S P A C E Well….. I enjoyed it! It was nice to see the return of actors who had been in previous Dr Who versions – esp Bernard Cribbens, as
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 26, 2007
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          S



          P



          O



          I



          L



          E



          R



          S



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          A



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          E



          Well�..



          I enjoyed it!



          It was nice to see the return of actors who had been in previous Dr Who
          versions � esp Bernard Cribbens, as well as the actor who played
          Bernathingmyjig (last time he was all green, spoke with a lisp and had a
          tail as far as I remember).



          Did I hear a subtle gay rights reference in there � the correlation being
          cyborgs � with �You�re even allowed to marry now�?



          With (ALLEGEDLY) Astrid making a reappearance in the future, is this going
          to be a combination of Richard, sorry � Mr Copper, and Torchwood as a way
          in?



          Finally � for those in Benelux � SciFi will start showing series 1 of
          Torchwood on Jan 8th. Sci-Fi is available on Telenet & Belgacom digital in
          Belgium and other cable

          Networks in the Netherlands. Check HYPERLINK
          "http://www.scifi-tv.nl/"www.scifi-tv.nl for details.



          The fact that BBC2 is part of the standard package on almost all cable
          networks in Benelux means that we shall be able to see series 2 before
          series 1 (officially) � BBC � why don�t you let Benelux see the new
          Torchwood website?





          Stuart (sexystuartg/spankskin)



          HYPERLINK "http://www.f-e-x.org/spankskin"http://www.f-e-x.org/spankskin



          Get your own free fetish profile at



          HYPERLINK "http://www.f-e-x.org"http://www.f-e-x.org





          .

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        • Vickie
          Really I think a lot of you spend too much time picking it apart. You can t just sit back and enjoy the adventure that is showing right in front of you. I m in
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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            Really I think a lot of you spend too much time picking it apart.
            You can't just sit back and enjoy the adventure that is showing right in front of you.
            I'm in the USA and just watched Voyage of the Damned yesterday with my boys. And we loved it!
            If you going to pick at everything and not enjoy all the work that was put into this show why even watch it?

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Elizabeth Holden
            ... I thought exactly the opposite - I thought it was Doctor Who at its finest, and the only thing lacking was Captain Jack Harkness! (Well, nothing s
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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              --- msunshne <msunshne@...> wrote:

              > This episode wasn't very good was it? It was
              > missing something. Plus, the caricatures of the
              > passengers were awful.

              I thought exactly the opposite - I thought it was Doctor Who at its finest, and the only thing
              lacking was Captain Jack Harkness! (Well, nothing's perfect.)

              I thought all the characters were wonderful, but I particularly liked Astrid and the brave young
              midshipman.

              namaste,
              Elizabeth
            • Elizabeth Holden
              ... That went right over my head. When was he stranded on earth and what was the reference? ... He was fun. I liked him, too. ... Astrid didn t carry the same
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                --- "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...> wrote:

                > Here's my review from another list:
                >
                > SPOILER SPACE
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                > I liked the subtle reference to the Third Doctor's time stranded on earth.

                That went right over my head. When was he stranded on earth and what was the reference?

                > In particular, I liked Mr. Copper. He was a great character,
                > well-written throughout the episode, and especially at the end.

                He was fun. I liked him, too.

                > Overall, the episode was pretty good, save the 5 minutes starting with
                > the whole "slo mo": the fact that it basically evokes Rose's "death" is
                > just all around poor and cringe-worthy, imo. Sorry, the character of
                > Astrid, after 60 minutes, doesn't carry the same weight as Rose.

                Astrid didn't carry the same weight at any point, but I think the parellel you're citing went over
                my head, too.

                namaste,
                Elizabeth
              • Elizabeth Holden
                ... Bravo! I forgot his name as soon as the show was over. But it s a great name! I think I thought it was Banacavalatta. nAh - Wikipedia says it s
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                  --- msunshne <msunshne@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Really the only good thing that came out of it is
                  > I can't stop saying Bavacavalatta. *or however
                  > you spell it*. lol

                  Bravo! I forgot his name as soon as the show was over. But it's a great name! I think I thought it
                  was Banacavalatta. nAh - Wikipedia says it's "Bannakaffalatta" - so that's good enough for me.

                  Yes, he was cute. I liked his 'engagement' to Astrid.

                  namaste,
                • Elizabeth Holden
                  ... Yeah, me too. I confess, I watched it all with a big stupid fannish grin on my face. (Except when it made me cry.) ... I had no idea! ... Yes. I liked
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                    --- Stuart Grant <sexystuartg@...> wrote:

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                    > Well…..
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                    > I enjoyed it!

                    Yeah, me too. I confess, I watched it all with a big stupid fannish grin on my face. (Except when
                    it made me cry.)

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It was nice to see the return of actors who had been in previous Dr Who
                    > versions – esp Bernard Cribbens, as well as the actor who played
                    > Bernathingmyjig (last time he was all green, spoke with a lisp and had a
                    > tail as far as I remember).

                    I had no idea!

                    > Did I hear a subtle gay rights reference in there – the correlation being
                    > cyborgs – with “You’re even allowed to marry now”?

                    Yes. I liked that, too, obviously.

                    > With (ALLEGEDLY) Astrid making a reappearance in the future, is this going
                    > to be a combination of Richard, sorry – Mr Copper, and Torchwood as a way
                    > in?

                    We won't know till we know. I didn't know Astrid was supposed to be returning. Well... she who is
                    disincorporated can presumably be reincorporated, given the right technology/storyline.

                    > Finally – for those in Benelux – SciFi will start showing series 1 of
                    > Torchwood on Jan 8th. Sci-Fi is available on Telenet & Belgacom digital in
                    > Belgium and other cable

                    Faugh. Excuse me while I grump in jealousy. We'll probably see it in Canada in 2009 - if then. I
                    don't know why they feel the need to wait forever to show it on the CBC.

                    > The fact that BBC2 is part of the standard package on almost all cable
                    > networks in Benelux means that we shall be able to see series 2 before
                    > series 1 (officially) – BBC – why don’t you let Benelux see the new
                    > Torchwood website?

                    Sheer cruelty to anyone not a British resident!

                    namaste,
                    Elizabeth
                  • wflynnjr62
                    Where can you view this in the US? Can someone send me a link?
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                      Where can you view this in the US? Can someone send me a link?
                    • Craig J. Ries
                      ... At one point, the Doctor is asked about how he knew so much about Earth, and he says that he was once homeless. I took it to mean the time he spent on
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                        Elizabeth Holden wrote:
                        > --- "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Here's my review from another list:
                        >>
                        >> SPOILER SPACE
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                        > When was he stranded on earth and what was the reference?

                        At one point, the Doctor is asked about how he knew so much about Earth,
                        and he says that he was once homeless. I took it to mean the time he
                        spent on Earth as the 3rd Doctor and didn't have access to the TARDIS,
                        since the TARDIS is his home.

                        > but I think the parellel you're citing went over my head, too.

                        Rose was "falling" into that portal at the end of "Doomsday", along with
                        the whole musical theme, the fact that Astrid was the one saving the day
                        and sacrificing herself in the process... the whole sequence was
                        basically a rehash of "Doomsday", save that Rose was saved, and Astrid
                        wasn't.

                        Craig J. Ries
                      • Craig J. Ries
                        ... If you don t like the fact that some of us are going to give our opinions in detail about what we like and don t like with each episode, then please stop
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                          Vickie wrote:
                          >
                          > If you going to pick at everything and not enjoy all the work
                          > that was put into this show why even watch it?

                          If you don't like the fact that some of us are going to give our
                          opinions in detail about what we like and don't like with each episode,
                          then please stop reading them.

                          I've spent my entire life watching Doctor Who, and I always want the
                          show to be at it's best. If it isn't, I'm going to say as much.

                          Craig J. Ries
                        • Elizabeth Holden
                          ... Ah - very cool! I took that to be a reference to the destruction of Gallifrey, since I didn t know about the other event. (Well, I d heard of it, but I d
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                            --- "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...> wrote:

                            > Elizabeth Holden wrote:
                            > > --- "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> Here's my review from another list:
                            > >>
                            > >> SPOILER SPACE
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                            > > When was he stranded on earth and what was the reference?
                            >
                            > At one point, the Doctor is asked about how he knew so much about Earth,
                            > and he says that he was once homeless. I took it to mean the time he
                            > spent on Earth as the 3rd Doctor and didn't have access to the TARDIS,
                            > since the TARDIS is his home.

                            Ah - very cool! I took that to be a reference to the destruction of Gallifrey, since I didn't know
                            about the other event. (Well, I'd heard of it, but I'd forgotten.)

                            > Rose was "falling" into that portal at the end of "Doomsday", along with
                            > the whole musical theme, the fact that Astrid was the one saving the day
                            > and sacrificing herself in the process... the whole sequence was
                            > basically a rehash of "Doomsday", save that Rose was saved, and Astrid
                            > wasn't.

                            I saw other Astrid/Rose parallels too: that both were in service industries and bored with their
                            lives, that both wanted to travel in space (and both liked the Doctor, but nothing unique in
                            that), both were blondes, and intrepid.

                            I don't consider this a problem - I liked the parallels.

                            namaste,
                            Elizabeth
                          • Tricia
                            ... Because that s the difference between being a fan and being a passive couch potato. I certainly didn t watch it to pick it apart and I certainly wasn t
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                              > Really I think a lot of you spend too much time picking it apart.
                              > You can't just sit back and enjoy the adventure that is showing
                              > right in front of you.
                              > I'm in the USA and just watched Voyage of the Damned yesterday with
                              > my boys. And we loved it!
                              > If you going to pick at everything and not enjoy all the work that
                              > was put into this show why even watch it?

                              Because that's the difference between being a fan and being a passive
                              couch potato. I certainly didn't watch it to pick it apart and I
                              certainly wasn't expecting to be disappointed in it. Despite this I
                              was. I have been a Doctor Who fan for almost all of my life and I have
                              very much enjoyed it's current incarnation. However I think that on
                              this particular occasion the production team have allowed themselves
                              to become distracted by the trappings of their obviously expanded
                              budget - flashy sets, costumes and effects not to mention "stunt
                              casting" - at the expense of the story and tight direction. Although
                              the entire episode was visually stunning I found Kylie Minogue's
                              acting to be stilted and uninspiring, the direction to be weak and
                              failing in the task of conveying any sense of urgency or peril
                              whatsoever and the extremely slight, self indulgent and contrived plot
                              not in any way justifying the extra time given the special.

                              I believe they can do better and I believe they have done better. And
                              because I'm a fan, I care. If you can't bear to see any criticism at
                              all, then I suspect lists like this are probably not the best place
                              for you because fans have always expressed their opinions, good and
                              bad and no doubt always will.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Elizabeth Holden
                              ... Yes - different episodes strike us as good or bad in different ways. And it s probably also true that every fan loves Doctor Who (or Torchwood) for
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                                --- Tricia <phaedri@...> wrote:

                                > Because that's the difference between being a fan and being a passive
                                > couch potato. I certainly didn't watch it to pick it apart and I
                                > certainly wasn't expecting to be disappointed in it. Despite this I
                                > was.

                                Yes - different episodes strike us as good or bad in different ways. And it's probably also true
                                that every fan loves Doctor Who (or Torchwood) for slightly different reasons, and will have
                                different preferences. "The Last of the Time Lords" was a difficult episode for me, which I am
                                still coming to terms with by analyzing it and re-analyzing it until I find an interpretation that
                                is palatable to me. That's part of the fannish fun.

                                While "Voyage of the Damned" just thrilled and delighted me from one end to the other. I thought
                                it was - perhaps not the best of the episodes, but the Doctor as I most love him. Which is what
                                matters most to me.

                                > I have been a Doctor Who fan for almost all of my life

                                While I only started to watch two years ago - never liked it at all when I was young.

                                > Although
                                > the entire episode was visually stunning I found Kylie Minogue's
                                > acting to be stilted and uninspiring

                                Hmm. I liked her fine, but she certainly didn't have the personality of a Rose or a Martha. I did
                                like her better than Donna - though I've come to like Donna more than I did, with the passage of
                                time.

                                I thought Astrid was (rather endearingly) a lost soul, a person who had never been given the
                                chance for self-expression that she craved. She hadn't quite become what she could be, yet, but
                                she knew what she wanted - new experiences, new adventures, a chance to explore the universe
                                freely. I could relate to that!

                                > the direction to be weak

                                Really?

                                > and
                                > failing in the task of conveying any sense of urgency or peril
                                > whatsoever and the extremely slight, self indulgent and contrived plot
                                > not in any way justifying the extra time given the special.

                                Well, the plot wasn't itself a heavy-hitter, granted, but I was pretty much on the edge of my seat
                                anyway. I liked it umpteen times more than the Empress of Racnoss last year. Complaints about
                                *that* one available on request.

                                I liked the plot in numerous ways, and the irony of it.

                                > I believe they can do better and I believe they have done better.

                                Hmm. Examples? I liked "Doomsday" much better, and the Steven Moffatt episodes, and a handful of
                                others. (I'm rather partial to "Gridlock", for example.) But I liked "Voyage of the Damned" much
                                more than both "The Christmas Invasion" and "The Runaway Bride", for numerous reasons. And I
                                thought the plot was much more coherent and exciting.

                                > because I'm a fan, I care.

                                Yes, as do we all. One way or another! After all, here I am, still trying to sort out my
                                reactions to "The Last of the Time Lords" in typical fannish style.

                                namaste,
                                Elizabeth
                              • majkia
                                Certainly we can all view it as we like and be as critical as we like. As for me, I loved it, and it made me laugh out loud in quite a few places and I enjoyed
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                                  Certainly we can all view it as we like and be as critical as we like.
                                  As for me, I loved it, and it made me laugh out loud in quite a few
                                  places and I enjoyed the hell out of it, as it were.

                                  Majkia

                                  P.S. I even liked the new theme music version. So there!
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  / Skinny Pete: If there's one thing I know, it's never to mess with
                                  mother nature, mother in-laws and, mother freaking Ukrainians.
                                  -TheItalianJob /
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                • Elizabeth Holden
                                  ... Yes. Sometimes when I don t like something, talking about it with other people makes me appreciate it in a new way. ... Yes, me too, and I cried a time or
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 27, 2007
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                                    --- majkia <majkia@...> wrote:

                                    > Certainly we can all view it as we like and be as critical as we like.

                                    Yes. Sometimes when I don't like something, talking about it with other people makes me appreciate
                                    it in a new way.

                                    > As for me, I loved it, and it made me laugh out loud in quite a few
                                    > places

                                    Yes, me too, and I cried a time or two as well.

                                    > and I enjoyed the hell out of it, as it were.

                                    Exactly!

                                    > P.S. I even liked the new theme music version. So there!

                                    I'm embarrassed to say I don't even remember the new music, or my reaction to it. I think I liked
                                    it. Must watch it again to be sure!

                                    namaste,
                                    Elizabeth
                                  • Vickie
                                    OMG! Okay, I m a US citizen and I totally believe in the freedom of speech. You have the right to say what you think about the show and to tell me where to
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 28, 2007
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                                      OMG!
                                      Okay, I'm a US citizen and I totally believe in the freedom of speech.
                                      You have the right to say what you think about the show and to tell me where to stick it.
                                      I too have been watching Dr Who most of my life.
                                      I also have the right to read any comment posted, as do you.
                                      I also have the right to reply to any comment posted, as do you.
                                      And I have the right to state my opinion, as do you.
                                      Which is...
                                      Relax people! Your taking everything to seriously. Sit back and enjoy.
                                      LOL



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