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Series finale

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  • Sarah McNally
    Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for those who haven t seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at last we found out who Jack
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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      Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for those who haven't seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought.........


      ---------------------------------
      Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
      Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Louis Sather
      I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in my reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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        << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
        then?? >>

        I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in my
        reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once the
        Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
        against one another), but the first 25 minutes of the
        episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
        writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have had
        many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
        past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
        writing and execution of his stories has only been
        so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).

        I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
        be going with each of them.



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Looking for earth-friendly autos?
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      • majkia
        I heard a lot of fans whinging and carrying on as they learnt some spoilers, but I thought the way the episode evolved made a great deal of sense. I found it
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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          I heard a lot of fans whinging and carrying on as they learnt some spoilers,
          but I thought the way the episode evolved made a great deal of sense. I
          found it thrilling and very Doctor Whoish and I thought the writing just
          fine.

          Majkia - unable to say more without spoilers


          --
          ~~~~~~~~~
          Bloggy Bayou: http://majkia.livejournal.com

          Vampires, Werewolves and Mages Oh My! http://www.quillings.wikispaces.com
          ~~~~~~~~~


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • donutsweeps
          ... those who haven t seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought......... ... Sorry, I
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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            --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
            >
            > Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for
            those who haven't seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at
            last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought.........
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
            > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            Sorry, I hated it. Jack never talks about his past, ever, yet we're
            to believe that he'd randomly drop a bomb like that?
            Besides, what a depressing future he has to look foward to!
          • John Lawton
            Please be careful about spoilers eveyone. Many of us have not viewed the episode yet and I would like to watch it fresh and be surprised with whatever
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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              Please be careful about spoilers eveyone. Many of us have not viewed the
              episode yet and I would like to watch it fresh and be surprised with
              whatever happens, thank you.

              John

              -------Original Message-------

              From: donutsweeps
              Date: 7/1/2007 8:54:48 AM
              To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [torchwood] Re: Series finale

              --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
              >
              > Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for
              those who haven't seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at
              last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought.........
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
              > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              Sorry, I hated it. Jack never talks about his past, ever, yet we're
              to believe that he'd randomly drop a bomb like that?
              Besides, what a depressing future he has to look foward to!





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Craig J. Ries
              SPOILERS ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ... While it had some redeeming ideas (a Time Lord willing himself not to regenerate, for example), I thought
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                SPOILERS
                !
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                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
                !
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                !

                Sarah McNally wrote:
                > Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then??

                While it had some redeeming ideas (a Time Lord willing himself not to
                regenerate, for example), I thought it was really a giant clusterf*ck.

                > and at last we found out who Jack really is

                Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:

                Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                value?

                The Face of Boe is billions of years old and the last of his kind. Jack
                is from the 51st Century. Isn't it even slightly conceivable that Jack,
                being from the future and all, already knew who the Face of Boe was, and
                simply making a crack about his good looks, versus Boe's lack of good looks.

                And just a week ago, everybody was gobbling up the idea that the
                Master's wife HAD to be the Rani. *sigh*

                Craig J. Ries
              • Mark Laffitte
                Like I ve told many friends in my DW fan club here in the states. RTD is good, and I m glad that he brought DW back. But he (RTD) is no way in the same league
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                  Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here in the states. RTD is good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he (RTD) is no way in the same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Louis Sather
                  To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                  Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale



                  << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                  then?? >>

                  I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in my
                  reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once the
                  Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                  against one another), but the first 25 minutes of the
                  episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                  writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have had
                  many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                  past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                  writing and execution of his stories has only been
                  so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).

                  I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                  be going with each of them.

                  __________________________________________________________
                  Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                  Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                  http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Lawton
                  Well as far as I m concerned JNT was the one responsible for destroying the clasic series back in the 80s but that s just my humble opinion. John ... From:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                    Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one responsible for destroying the
                    clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my humble opinion.

                    John

                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: Mark Laffitte
                    Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                    To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                    Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here in the states. RTD is
                    good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he (RTD) is no way in the
                    same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Louis Sather
                    To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                    << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                    then?? >>

                    I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in my
                    reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once the
                    Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                    against one another), but the first 25 minutes of the
                    episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                    writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have had
                    many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                    past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                    writing and execution of his stories has only been
                    so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).

                    I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                    be going with each of them.

                    __________________________________________________________
                    Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                    Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                    http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • Will Vigar
                    ... 100% with you, John. JNT utterly destroyed Who... -- A Knife and Fork in a World of Soup
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                      On 01/07/07, John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one responsible for destroying the
                      > clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my humble opinion.

                      100% with you, John. JNT utterly destroyed Who...

                      --
                      "A Knife and Fork in a World of Soup"
                    • donutsweeps
                      s p o i l e r s p o i l e r ... I assumed it was a joke as well
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                        s
                        p
                        o
                        i
                        l
                        e
                        r
                        s
                        p
                        o
                        i
                        l
                        e
                        r
                        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:
                        >
                        > Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                        > value?

                        I assumed it was a joke as well
                      • Louis Sather
                        Oh, NO ARGUEMENTS THERE!!!! JNT did ruin the show back in the 80 s. My comment wasn t that RTD completely ruins the show...I think he has some brilliant ideas
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                          Oh, NO ARGUEMENTS THERE!!!! JNT did ruin the show back
                          in the 80's.
                          My comment wasn't that RTD completely ruins the
                          show...I think he has some brilliant ideas and I like
                          the way he has brought it into the modern age. It is
                          just that his actual writing has never been as good as
                          the other people he has hired to write stories (Steven
                          Moffat, Gareth Roberts, Paul Cornell). In fact I can't
                          think of an episode he has written, well maybe
                          "Utopia", that I would rank in my favourites.


                          --- John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote:

                          > Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one
                          > responsible for destroying the
                          > clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my
                          > humble opinion.
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          > -------Original Message-------
                          >
                          > From: Mark Laffitte
                          > Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                          > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                          >
                          > Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here
                          > in the states. RTD is
                          > good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he
                          > (RTD) is no way in the
                          > same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Louis Sather
                          > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                          >
                          > << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                          > then?? >>
                          >
                          > I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in
                          > my
                          > reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once
                          > the
                          > Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                          > against one another), but the first 25 minutes of
                          > the
                          > episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                          > writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have
                          > had
                          > many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                          > past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                          > writing and execution of his stories has only been
                          > so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).
                          >
                          > I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                          > be going with each of them.
                          >
                          >
                          __________________________________________________________
                          > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                          > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
                          > Green Center.
                          > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) |
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                          ------------------------------------------------------------
                          "Don't taunt the FEAR Demon...It's just not nice."

                          Louis Sather
                          lesather@...
                          http://www.geocities.com/lesather/index.html


                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
                        • John Lawton
                          Agreed! RTD has some great ideas and I thank him for bringing Who back but he tries to bring to many politcally correct overtones to the show, whether they be
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                            Agreed! RTD has some great ideas and I thank him for bringing Who back but
                            he tries to bring to many politcally correct overtones to the show, whether
                            they be sexual or otherwise. When I watch a show like Dr. Who I watch it
                            for entertainment. I don't like having poltical agendas forced upon me.

                            John

                            -------Original Message-------

                            From: Louis Sather
                            Date: 7/1/2007 4:42:17 PM
                            To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                            Oh, NO ARGUEMENTS THERE!!!! JNT did ruin the show back
                            in the 80's.
                            My comment wasn't that RTD completely ruins the
                            show...I think he has some brilliant ideas and I like
                            the way he has brought it into the modern age. It is
                            just that his actual writing has never been as good as
                            the other people he has hired to write stories (Steven
                            Moffat, Gareth Roberts, Paul Cornell). In fact I can't
                            think of an episode he has written, well maybe
                            "Utopia", that I would rank in my favourites.

                            --- John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote:

                            > Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one
                            > responsible for destroying the
                            > clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my
                            > humble opinion.
                            >
                            > John
                            >
                            > -------Original Message-------
                            >
                            > From: Mark Laffitte
                            > Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                            > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                            >
                            > Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here
                            > in the states. RTD is
                            > good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he
                            > (RTD) is no way in the
                            > same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Louis Sather
                            > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                            >
                            > << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                            > then?? >>
                            >
                            > I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in
                            > my
                            > reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once
                            > the
                            > Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                            > against one another), but the first 25 minutes of
                            > the
                            > episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                            > writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have
                            > had
                            > many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                            > past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                            > writing and execution of his stories has only been
                            > so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).
                            >
                            > I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                            > be going with each of them.
                            >
                            >
                            __________________________________________________________
                            > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                            > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
                            > Green Center.
                            > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) |
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                            > with other members
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >

                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                            "Don't taunt the FEAR Demon...It's just not nice."

                            Louis Sather
                            lesather@...
                            http://www.geocities.com/lesather/index.html

                            __________________________________________________________
                            Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
                            http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Lawton
                            SPOILERS!!! RTD ripped off Star Wars! The Doctor burnt The Master s body just like they did in Return Of The Jedi! John ... From: Louis Sather Date: 7/1/2007
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                              SPOILERS!!!





                              RTD ripped off Star Wars! The Doctor burnt The Master's body just like
                              they did in Return Of The Jedi!

                              John
                              -------Original Message-------

                              From: Louis Sather
                              Date: 7/1/2007 4:42:17 PM
                              To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                              Oh, NO ARGUEMENTS THERE!!!! JNT did ruin the show back
                              in the 80's.
                              My comment wasn't that RTD completely ruins the
                              show...I think he has some brilliant ideas and I like
                              the way he has brought it into the modern age. It is
                              just that his actual writing has never been as good as
                              the other people he has hired to write stories (Steven
                              Moffat, Gareth Roberts, Paul Cornell). In fact I can't
                              think of an episode he has written, well maybe
                              "Utopia", that I would rank in my favourites.

                              --- John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote:

                              > Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one
                              > responsible for destroying the
                              > clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my
                              > humble opinion.
                              >
                              > John
                              >
                              > -------Original Message-------
                              >
                              > From: Mark Laffitte
                              > Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                              > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                              >
                              > Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here
                              > in the states. RTD is
                              > good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he
                              > (RTD) is no way in the
                              > same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Louis Sather
                              > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                              >
                              > << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                              > then?? >>
                              >
                              > I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in
                              > my
                              > reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once
                              > the
                              > Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                              > against one another), but the first 25 minutes of
                              > the
                              > episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                              > writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have
                              > had
                              > many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                              > past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                              > writing and execution of his stories has only been
                              > so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).
                              >
                              > I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                              > be going with each of them.
                              >
                              >
                              __________________________________________________________
                              > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                              > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
                              > Green Center.
                              > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) |
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                              > Doctor who
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                              > see what is on.
                              > Yahoo! Groups
                              > Moderator Central
                              > An online resource
                              > for moderators.
                              > Yoga Groups
                              > Find Enlightenment
                              > & exchange insights
                              > with other members
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >

                              ----------------------------------------------------------
                              "Don't taunt the FEAR Demon...It's just not nice."

                              Louis Sather
                              lesather@...
                              http://www.geocities.com/lesather/index.html

                              __________________________________________________________
                              Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
                              http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7



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                            • John Lawton
                              The one thing that I felt was totally out of character for The Master was treating the imprisoned Doctor as a pet even going so far as to call him the pet Dog.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                                The one thing that I felt was totally out of character for The Master was
                                treating the imprisoned Doctor as a pet even going so far as to call him the
                                pet Dog. With as evil as The Master is or was he would never stoop to such
                                childish antics like that. Above all, both him and The Doctor or very
                                sofisticated individuals and having his character do something like that is
                                an insult to the heritage of The Master, as portrayed by Roger Delgado and
                                Anthony Ainley.

                                John

                                -------Original Message-------

                                From: donutsweeps
                                Date: 7/1/2007 8:54:48 AM
                                To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [torchwood] Re: Series finale

                                --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for
                                those who haven't seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at
                                last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought.........
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
                                > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                Sorry, I hated it. Jack never talks about his past, ever, yet we're
                                to believe that he'd randomly drop a bomb like that?
                                Besides, what a depressing future he has to look foward to!





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Lynn
                                Replying to several comments at once.... ... You re kidding, right? :) If RTD ripped off Star Wars then Star Wars ripped off the Hindu population of
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                                  Replying to several comments at once....

                                  Spoiler Space:
                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >
                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >
                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >


                                  >

                                  John Lawton wrote:

                                  >RTD ripped off Star Wars! The Doctor burnt The Master's body just like
                                  >they did in Return Of The Jedi!

                                  You're kidding, right? :) If RTD "ripped off" Star Wars then Star Wars ripped off the Hindu population of India...

                                  Craig J. Ries wrote:

                                  >The Face of Boe is billions of years old and the last of his kind. Jack
                                  > is from the 51st Century.

                                  It's possible you're right -- it's also possible that the "billions of years old" thing is a legend.

                                  donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:

                                  > Jack never talks about his past, ever, yet we're
                                  > to believe that he'd randomly drop a bomb like that?

                                  I'd have to say that's a big conclusion to jump too. In S1 of Doctor Who, we saw Jack tell Rose and the Doctor things about his past, both serious things like his Time Agency background and capers like in the restaurant in Boomtown. Just because we didn't see much more of it (due to, you know, plot and stuff) I don't extrapolate from that any secrecy from Jack about his past with the Doctor and his companion.

                                  With the TW people, it's different, because he's trying not to reveal what he knows, to avoid the risk of altering timelines.

                                  > Besides, what a depressing future he has to look foward to!

                                  I have to disagree. Consider the alternative. What would he have to look forward to if he'd never age? He had a rough time making it through 140 years... even with the brighter outlook he has now (I hope) people are still going to be forever dying on him. And he's seen the year 100 trillion and it isn't pretty. Doomed to live until the universe collapses? I think that would be the truly awful future.

                                  Instead, he gets to find a totally different kind of existence eventually (though fortunately for us he has many youthful and hot years left to him first!) but when he does die, it's with the Doctor at his side. I think it's kind of beautiful, really.

                                  -lynn
                                • Robert DiClemente
                                  JNT took the series in a new direction for the 80s and the formula worked until the ratings went down the toilet, but I blame that on the idiot who put it up
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                                    JNT took the series in a new direction for the 80s and the formula worked until the ratings went down the toilet, but I blame that on the idiot who put it up against Coronation Street....Michael Grade maybe???? There were a lot of good stories that came out during JNTs reign, but there were also a share of bad ones. The same goes for RTD, he's had some good stories during his reign and bad one's, but so have all of the other producers of Doctor Who over the years.
                                    Others would say, had it not been for JNT, Doctor Who wouldn't have lasted as long as it did during the 80s, how many, I'm not sure, so we're never going to get the "perfect" producer, so let's just be happy that we have one.
                                    I think that I can say this without getting too many bruises, JNT had control over the show, but RTD has a much firmer grip on the content of the show, ie: storylines and how they should be written, instead of letting the writer get on with the story. 2005: Badwolf scenario, 2006: Torchwood and this year: Mr. Saxon, so let's drop the whole story arc for 13 episodes and get individual stories that have no connection, except for the fact that they all happen to be in the same season.
                                    Let's just hope that this next season will stray away from a common thread, fingers crossed.

                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: John Lawton <videoking@...>
                                    To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 2:18:00 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                                    Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one responsible for destroying the
                                    clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my humble opinion.

                                    John

                                    -------Original Message----- --

                                    From: Mark Laffitte
                                    Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                                    To: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                                    Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here in the states. RTD is
                                    good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he (RTD) is no way in the
                                    same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Louis Sather
                                    To: torchwood@yahoogrou ps.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                                    << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                                    then?? >>

                                    I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in my
                                    reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once the
                                    Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                                    against one another), but the first 25 minutes of the
                                    episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                                    writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have had
                                    many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                                    past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                                    writing and execution of his stories has only been
                                    so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).

                                    I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                                    be going with each of them.

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                                  • Lynn
                                    From: Robert DiClemente ... Can you please explain how having Bad Wolf graffiti on the side of the TARDIS, or as the name of the nuclear
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jul 1, 2007
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                                      From: Robert DiClemente <rmd515@...>

                                      > I think that I can say this without getting too many bruises, JNT had control over the show, but RTD has
                                      > a much firmer grip on the content of the show, ie: storylines and how they should be written, instead of
                                      > letting the writer get on with the story. 2005: Badwolf scenario, 2006: Torchwood and this year: Mr.
                                      > Saxon, so let's drop the whole story arc for 13 episodes and get individual stories that have no
                                      > connection, except for the fact that they all happen to be in the same season.

                                      Can you please explain how having "Bad Wolf" graffiti on the side of the TARDIS, or as the name of the nuclear reactor, or Gwenyth mentioning "bad wolf" for three seconds, or any of the very quick references to Torchwood in season 2, or a bunch of "Vote Saxon" posters, prevents writers from getting on with the story? Seriously, I don't get it. Most of these references were either visual or took 5 seconds or less until the episode where they mattered.

                                      I like that Doctor Who has continuity, both story and character-wise. I think it's a strength of the show, not a weakness. If I want 13 stories that have no connection, I can watch The Outer Limits or Twilight Zone.

                                      -lynn
                                    • slida
                                      ... From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn ... It s possible you re right -- it s also possible that the
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: torchwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:torchwood@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Lynn
                                        Spoiler Space:
                                        >

                                        >

                                        >

                                        >

                                        >

                                        >
                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >
                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >


                                        >

                                        It's possible you're right -- it's also possible that the "billions of
                                        years old" thing is a legend.

                                        >> And, if you think about it, Boe is in a similar type of jar when we
                                        see him as Jack kept the Doc's hand in.

                                        Just mentioning it, is all.....

                                        <Slida>
                                      • Sarah McNally
                                        S p o i l e r s I am not so sure it was a joke, I thought it was a typical RTD piece of writing - a good idea on the surface but then if you think about it
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                          S
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                                          o
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                                          r
                                          s

                                          I am not so sure it was a joke, I thought it was a typical RTD piece of writing - a good idea on the surface but then if you think about it many things do not add up... also whether it was a joke or not it was an interesting concept?



                                          donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:
                                          s
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                                          --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:
                                          >
                                          > Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                                          > value?

                                          I assumed it was a joke as well






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                                        • Sarah McNally
                                          s p o i l e r s ! ! ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe: In Last of the Time Lords, the immortal Captain Jack Harkness speculates how long he may live
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                            s
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                                            r
                                            s
                                            !
                                            !
                                            !
                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe:

                                            In Last of the Time Lords, the immortal Captain Jack Harkness speculates how long he may live and how he may look after millions of years, before mentioning having been a poster boy as a kid in the Boeshane Peninsula, and the "first one ever to be signed up for the Time Agency", accomplishments that earned him the nickname "the Face of Boe". This astonishes Martha and the Doctor. Writer Russell T. Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this scene as "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop backpedaling" about the two characters being the same. Davies also mentioned the addition of a line in "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "old friend", thus suggesting a stronger connection between the characters.[1]

                                            Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
                                            S
                                            p
                                            o
                                            i
                                            l
                                            e
                                            r
                                            s

                                            I am not so sure it was a joke, I thought it was a typical RTD piece of writing - a good idea on the surface but then if you think about it many things do not add up... also whether it was a joke or not it was an interesting concept?



                                            donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:
                                            s
                                            p
                                            o
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                                            e
                                            r
                                            s
                                            p
                                            o
                                            i
                                            l
                                            e
                                            r
                                            --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:
                                            >
                                            > Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                                            > value?

                                            I assumed it was a joke as well

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                                          • Joanne Oliver
                                            I did. It was brilliant. Didn t see that twist about Jack coming at all... Sarah McNally wrote: Did everyone enjoy the season
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                              I did. It was brilliant. Didn't see that twist about Jack coming at all...

                                              Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote: Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who then?? Sorry for those who haven't seen it yet but I thought it was brilliant and at last we found out who Jack really is - wonderful twist I thought.........

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                                            • donutsweeps
                                              ... speculates how long he may live and how he may look after millions of years, before mentioning having been a poster boy as a kid in the Boeshane Peninsula,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > s
                                                > p
                                                > o
                                                > i
                                                > l
                                                > e
                                                > r
                                                > s
                                                > !
                                                > !
                                                > !
                                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe:
                                                >
                                                > In Last of the Time Lords, the immortal Captain Jack Harkness
                                                speculates how long he may live and how he may look after millions of
                                                years, before mentioning having been a poster boy as a kid in the
                                                Boeshane Peninsula, and the "first one ever to be signed up for the
                                                Time Agency", accomplishments that earned him the nickname "the Face
                                                of Boe". This astonishes Martha and the Doctor. Writer Russell T.
                                                Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this
                                                scene as "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting
                                                Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop backpedaling"
                                                about the two characters being the same. Davies also mentioned the
                                                addition of a line in "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the
                                                Doctor "old friend", thus suggesting a stronger connection between the
                                                characters.[1]
                                                >
                                                well, wikipedia isn't the best of sources, but even if it's true, why
                                                can't he backpedal? He can write or rewrite whatever he wants. He
                                                wrote something and then realized he needed to change it. Hasn't JB
                                                said that it was only after the fan reactions that his character of
                                                Jack became the hero?
                                              • Lynn
                                                From: donutsweeps ... Actually, if you listen to the commentary, that isn t what he says at all. Of course he can change his mind at a
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                  From: donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...>


                                                  >
                                                  > s
                                                  > p
                                                  > o
                                                  > i
                                                  > l
                                                  > e
                                                  > r
                                                  > s
                                                  > !
                                                  > !
                                                  > !

                                                  > well, wikipedia isn't the best of sources, but even if it's true, why
                                                  >can't he backpedal? He can write or rewrite whatever he wants. He
                                                  >wrote something and then realized he needed to change it.

                                                  Actually, if you listen to the commentary, that isn't what he says at all. Of course he can change his mind at a later date, but that wasn't the point of Julie Gardner's comment. RTD was just concerned it was going too far. He didn't say he didn't like the idea or that it needed to be changed. (And seriously, what difference does it make, on a practical level, about what happens to Jack in 10s or 100s of thousands of years?)

                                                  > Hasn't JB
                                                  > said that it was only after the fan reactions that his character of
                                                  > Jack became the hero?

                                                  Actually, no. What he said was that some fans didn't like Jack at first. Fan reaction had nothing to do with where his story went -- all of his series 1 Doctor Who episodes were completed before the first one aired. His storyline was totally set before fans ever got a look at him.

                                                  Which, IMO, is as it should be. Any showrunner who'd be so quick to cave to the opinion of a few noisy fans -- who are probably totally unrepresentative of viewers as a whole -- show a lack of direction and faith in their own vision.

                                                  -Lynn
                                                • Karl Kammer
                                                  Dont forget Flash Gorden. the way she picked up the ring and the laugh is straight out of that film. Not that I would consider either of them rip offs. Also,
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                    Dont forget Flash Gorden. the way she picked up the ring and the laugh is straight out of that film. Not that I would consider either of them rip offs. Also, small pooint, It looked almost like they were on the distant planet from the end of time, look at the background, until of course the hand came in to get the ring.

                                                    John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote: SPOILERS!!!





                                                    RTD ripped off Star Wars! The Doctor burnt The Master's body just like
                                                    they did in Return Of The Jedi!

                                                    John
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: Louis Sather
                                                    Date: 7/1/2007 4:42:17 PM
                                                    To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale

                                                    Oh, NO ARGUEMENTS THERE!!!! JNT did ruin the show back
                                                    in the 80's.
                                                    My comment wasn't that RTD completely ruins the
                                                    show...I think he has some brilliant ideas and I like
                                                    the way he has brought it into the modern age. It is
                                                    just that his actual writing has never been as good as
                                                    the other people he has hired to write stories (Steven
                                                    Moffat, Gareth Roberts, Paul Cornell). In fact I can't
                                                    think of an episode he has written, well maybe
                                                    "Utopia", that I would rank in my favourites.

                                                    --- John Lawton <videoking@...> wrote:

                                                    > Well as far as I'm concerned JNT was the one
                                                    > responsible for destroying the
                                                    > clasic series back in the 80s but that's just my
                                                    > humble opinion.
                                                    >
                                                    > John
                                                    >
                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Mark Laffitte
                                                    > Date: 7/1/2007 2:13:37 PM
                                                    > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                                                    >
                                                    > Like I've told many friends in my DW fan club here
                                                    > in the states. RTD is
                                                    > good, and I'm glad that he brought DW back. But he
                                                    > (RTD) is no way in the
                                                    > same league as JONH NATHAN TURNER.
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > From: Louis Sather
                                                    > To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:07 AM
                                                    > Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale
                                                    >
                                                    > << Did everyone enjoy the season finale of Dr Who
                                                    > then?? >>
                                                    >
                                                    > I have seen it and personally I was rather mixed in
                                                    > my
                                                    > reaction. I LOVED the last 25 minutes or so (once
                                                    > the
                                                    > Doctor and the Master were able to finally face off
                                                    > against one another), but the first 25 minutes of
                                                    > the
                                                    > episode was too over-blown IMO without any solid
                                                    > writing and mostly about the SFX. Of course I have
                                                    > had
                                                    > many prolems with RTD's writing of the series in the
                                                    > past...I think he has some brilliant ideas, but the
                                                    > writing and execution of his stories has only been
                                                    > so-so (I feel the same way about George Lucas).
                                                    >
                                                    > I did enjoy Jack and Martha and where they appear to
                                                    > be going with each of them.
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    >
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                                                  • Karl Kammer
                                                    Poster boy and the peninsula of Boeshane. Becomes Face of Boe. If RTD has a wicked sense of humor he could just be playing with peoples heads. Reminds me of
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                      Poster boy and the peninsula of Boeshane. Becomes Face of Boe. If RTD has a wicked sense of humor he could just be playing with peoples heads. Reminds me of a line from a show, "I'm gonna play with you like a wet kitten" It didnt make any sense to anyone but the audience laughed.

                                                      Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote: s
                                                      p
                                                      o
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                                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe:

                                                      In Last of the Time Lords, the immortal Captain Jack Harkness speculates how long he may live and how he may look after millions of years, before mentioning having been a poster boy as a kid in the Boeshane Peninsula, and the "first one ever to be signed up for the Time Agency", accomplishments that earned him the nickname "the Face of Boe". This astonishes Martha and the Doctor. Writer Russell T. Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this scene as "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop backpedaling" about the two characters being the same. Davies also mentioned the addition of a line in "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "old friend", thus suggesting a stronger connection between the characters.[1]

                                                      Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
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                                                      I am not so sure it was a joke, I thought it was a typical RTD piece of writing - a good idea on the surface but then if you think about it many things do not add up... also whether it was a joke or not it was an interesting concept?

                                                      donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:
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                                                      --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:
                                                      >
                                                      > Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                                                      > value?

                                                      I assumed it was a joke as well

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                                                    • Sarah McNally
                                                      I think so too - RTD probably just dropped this in at the end of the series so we would all have something to talk about on all the forums!! As with all
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                        I think so too - RTD probably just dropped this in at the end of the series so we would all have something to talk about on all the forums!! As with all fiction there are no rules.

                                                        Karl Kammer <daddykarl@...> wrote:
                                                        Poster boy and the peninsula of Boeshane. Becomes Face of Boe. If RTD has a wicked sense of humor he could just be playing with peoples heads. Reminds me of a line from a show, "I'm gonna play with you like a wet kitten" It didnt make any sense to anyone but the audience laughed.

                                                        Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote: s
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                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe:

                                                        In Last of the Time Lords, the immortal Captain Jack Harkness speculates how long he may live and how he may look after millions of years, before mentioning having been a poster boy as a kid in the Boeshane Peninsula, and the "first one ever to be signed up for the Time Agency", accomplishments that earned him the nickname "the Face of Boe". This astonishes Martha and the Doctor. Writer Russell T. Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this scene as "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop backpedaling" about the two characters being the same. Davies also mentioned the addition of a line in "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "old friend", thus suggesting a stronger connection between the characters.[1]

                                                        Sarah McNally <mcfaddencat@...> wrote:
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                                                        s

                                                        I am not so sure it was a joke, I thought it was a typical RTD piece of writing - a good idea on the surface but then if you think about it many things do not add up... also whether it was a joke or not it was an interesting concept?

                                                        donutsweeps <donutsweeps@...> wrote:
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                                                        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, "Craig J. Ries" <silvanthalas@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Ok, this is going to come across as very harsh, but it must be said:
                                                        >
                                                        > Are so many of you that gullible as to not take this as a joke at face
                                                        > value?

                                                        I assumed it was a joke as well

                                                        ---------------------------------
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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                                      • majkia
                                                        RTD probably just dropped this in at the end of the series so we would all have something to talk about on all the forums!! As with all fiction there are no
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                          RTD probably just dropped this in at the end of the series so we would all
                                                          have something to talk about on all the forums!! As with all fiction there
                                                          are no rules.>>

                                                          There are rules, "but they're more like guidelines" - Elizabeth Swann


                                                          Majkia
                                                          ~~~~~~~~~
                                                          Bloggy Bayou: http://majkia.livejournal.com

                                                          Vampires, Werewolves and Mages Oh My! http://www.quillings.wikispaces.com
                                                          ~~~~~~~~~


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                                                        • Robert DiClemente
                                                          I will address your questions in order. Badwolf references through out season 27, those weren t a detraction to the story, nor did they hinder the storyline,
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
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                                                            I will address your questions in order.
                                                            Badwolf references through out season 27, those weren't a detraction to the story, nor did they hinder the storyline, it's just if you're going to drop these little hints why not have an explanation of what they mean. In THE UNQUIET DEAD, the reference given by Gwenyth was just that a reference, why didn't we get more of an explanation of what she meant. I'd have to watch the episode again, but still it was a plot device that wasn't fully used to it's greatest potential.
                                                            As for the Torchwood references, those were a bit random, but please, that was a plug for TORCHWOOD the series, so I overlooked those bits, but at least we knew the background for all of the Torchwood references. TOOTH AND CLAW set that all up, so when Torchwood was mentioned we all had a reference to fall back on, instead of grasping at straws. I think it should be know that I'm looking at this from a writing stand point, so that's my main gripe about Badwolf, I wish there would have been more information given about what it all meant, instead of having it all wrapped up at the end of PARTING OF THE WAYS.
                                                            Mr. Saxon references were here and there, but we did see a final outcome of what it was all leading to, though I haven't seen the last four episodes of this season to wrap everything up in the Mr. Saxon storyline.
                                                            I don't think continuity is a weakness, I just don't think you need to have every season deal with one specific subject over a few stories.
                                                            Since I'm of the old school, "classic" series part of fandom, I feel this way, but I'm not knocking the show, I'm glad it's here.



                                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                                            From: Lynn <lynnloschin@...>
                                                            To: torchwood@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 11:33:52 PM
                                                            Subject: Re: [torchwood] Series finale


                                                            From: Robert DiClemente <rmd515@...>

                                                            > I think that I can say this without getting too many bruises, JNT had control over the show, but RTD has
                                                            > a much firmer grip on the content of the show, ie: storylines and how they should be written, instead of
                                                            > letting the writer get on with the story. 2005: Badwolf scenario, 2006: Torchwood and this year: Mr.
                                                            > Saxon, so let's drop the whole story arc for 13 episodes and get individual stories that have no
                                                            > connection, except for the fact that they all happen to be in the same season.

                                                            Can you please explain how having "Bad Wolf" graffiti on the side of the TARDIS, or as the name of the nuclear reactor, or Gwenyth mentioning "bad wolf" for three seconds, or any of the very quick references to Torchwood in season 2, or a bunch of "Vote Saxon" posters, prevents writers from getting on with the story? Seriously, I don't get it. Most of these references were either visual or took 5 seconds or less until the episode where they mattered.

                                                            I like that Doctor Who has continuity, both story and character-wise. I think it's a strength of the show, not a weakness. If I want 13 stories that have no connection, I can watch The Outer Limits or Twilight Zone.

                                                            -lynn






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                                                          • bruno.tanaka
                                                            Hello people. Well, I just have watched the finalle season, yes as brazilian I m too slow on it, but I realy liked it begining, but when I was in the middle of
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jul 3, 2007
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                                                              Hello people.
                                                              Well, I just have watched the finalle season, yes as brazilian I'm too
                                                              slow on it, but I realy liked it begining, but when I was in the middle
                                                              of it, I was compleatly lost.
                                                              Well, I confess I jumped the second season or whatever season it was,
                                                              but I didn't missed a thing... Jack was who? =S

                                                              Just to know, what season is that?
                                                              Coz I started to watch it that season on Jack appears, then for me it's
                                                              third!! =D
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