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Re: Anyone Else Hate Gwen? (and Owen)

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  • psionycx
    There s no question that Owen is a jerk. But the major difference (for me) is that Owen doesn t pretend to be anything other than a jerk. Thus he s in
    Message 1 of 92 , May 9, 2007
      There's no question that Owen is a jerk. But the major difference
      (for me) is that Owen doesn't pretend to be anything other than a
      jerk. Thus he's in character as one might say. His thing is that
      everyone, including him, is surprised when he actually manages to
      find a more positive emotion as in Ghost Machine or Out of Time.

      I think this is why he annoys me less than Gwen. He's pretty much as
      advertised on the wrapper. She on the other hand puts out a front of
      being the voice of moral rectitude while her own actions are
      questionable at best. Owen's a jerk who occasionally shows redeeming
      virtues. Gwen's the saintly girl whose real self is less virtuous
      than her image.

      The Owen thing certainly was introduced as a surprise. Clearly early
      on the writers lead-on was that she was attracted to Jack (who
      isn't). Her denial of Owen's assertion that Jack's gay and her
      almost girlish gushing over his fashion choices made that pretty
      clear. And after initial nervousness she got into the gun/flirting
      session pretty quickly. Plus the monopolizing Jack's corpse should
      leave you wondering. At that point Rhys had been resurrected
      remember. Did she just blow him off for days while she hovered over
      Jack's body while others, like Ianto, dealt with their feelings more
      privately?

      That was typical Gwen, especially as regards Rhys. So was the Retcon
      incident. Likewise, when Tosh read her mind she clearly got that
      Gwen knew her affair with Owen was wrong, but that she wasn't going
      to stop it. Gwen's repeating pattern is one of possession. Jack is
      her's, even when he's dead. Rhys is her's too, even if she has to
      lie to him or dose him with Retcon, as long as she can keep him at
      home waiting.

      It wouldn't irk me so much if this Melrose Place Gwen stuff weren't a
      drain on screen time for characters that are interesting like Ianto
      or Tosh. Tosh was great in Greeks Bearing Gifts and Captain Jack
      Harkness, especially the latter. Maybe because Gwen wasn't in 1941
      to body block her from participating in the story. There's a good
      reason the writers sent Tosh back with Jack and it wasn't just to
      highlight WWII anti-Japanese prejudice. If Gwen had been there the
      real Jack wouldn't have been able to get within ten meters of
      Torchwood Jack.

      She gets way too much screen time for someone who basically does
      three things:

      1) Misuse her boyfriend
      2) Preach at her co-workers
      3) Pretend to be the "human" influence on the team

      If she's supposed to provide a character that the audience can relate
      to then RTD must think his audience is Britney Spears.

      I am sooooooooo hoping that they shove her into the background in
      Series Two. But that's probably too much to hope for.
    • psionycx
      This is very true. But pound for pound, Jack is so far weighing in as a shy virgin compared to someone like, say, Patrick on Coupling. Now granted, Coupling
      Message 92 of 92 , May 15, 2007
        This is very true. But pound for pound, Jack is so far weighing in
        as a shy virgin compared to someone like, say, Patrick on Coupling.
        Now granted, Coupling was a relationship comedy whereas Torchwood is
        a sci-fi show. But as you noted below, we have more concrete
        evidence of sex on the parts of Gwen, Owen and Tosh.

        It is true that imagination can be relied upon to fill in the blanks
        as it were. And where that fails there's all those lovely people
        writing fanfic (about 3/4 of which is Jack/Ianto bless their little
        hearts). It is true that while all of Torchwood's gay audience and
        most of it's straight female audience would be perfectly fine with
        the sight of Jack and Ianto doing something rather more graphic, it's
        open to debate if the straight male demographic (the usual core sci-
        fi audience) would cope well, even allowing for the fact that the
        British have more evolved sensibilities than Americans.

        Naturally this is manifest in the fact that Jack's kiss with Jack, or
        even his brief one with Ianto, is considered as more "daring" than
        Owen and Diane being shown in bed. Welcome back to Melrose Place.
        Still it is irksome though. Plus, Jack and Ianto frankly have more
        chemistry than Gwen and Owen. It's that whole angsty men together
        thing.

        I suppose it's just a little funny, because so much hype has been put
        to this, but really only Carys's possession by alien sex gas was
        really especially titillating. Otherwise Torchwood is noticeably
        less risque than Buffy the Vampire Slayer was.

        Jack may have some major issues going back to his abandonment by the
        Doctor and Rose (however unintentional it may have been). But for
        pity's sake that was at least a century ago on his personal
        timeline! At some point you just have to get over it Jack! May
        series two bring a little more "excitement" to the show. And fewer
        Weevils.

        --- In torchwood@yahoogroups.com, pfyre <pfyre@...> wrote:
        >
        > this is not an usual scenario in television series - I recall a
        1980s
        > series in which the nominal lead was supposed to be the 'ladies'
        man'
        > always on the prowl, on the make, and yet if you were to go back
        and check
        > the eps of the series - the socalled ladies man had very few dates
        much
        > less much else and yet the secondary lead was the one hopping in
        and out of
        > bed - but to this day the illusion persists
        >
        > that's what they've done with Jack - right from 'The Empty Child'
        onwards -
        > we've gotten plenty of innuendo and double entendres galore but as
        for
        > actual physical evidence of Jack doing more than flirting and
        occasionally
        > kissing we've gotten virtually nada hard evidence -- yet I'd be
        willing to
        > bet that the average and casual viewers of DW and/or TW would still
        believe
        > that Jack in the rogue the one on the make and constantly hopping
        beds
        > whether occupied by male or female or some other gender human or
        alien
        >

        >
        > perhaps because as open and progressive as British tv and audiences
        are,
        > you have to wonder if they're truly ready to see Jack shagging a
        gorgeous
        > alien or exquisitely, gorgeous Ianto? we want to see it, but is the
        average
        > audience member ready for it?
        >

        >
        > I honestly don't think this means that Ianto is 'no one' to Jack
        but more a
        > comment on that there is no one that Jack has been able to be
        truthful and
        > completely open about himself since being brought back to life on
        Satellite
        > Five and abandoned by the two people he loved and trusted....
        >

        >
        > me too - though we would have to say there is some proof that Gwen
        is
        > getting some from both Rhys and Owen (Rhys leaving the bed starkers
        in the
        > morning, etc. - Owen, starkers, stepping up behind Gwen - who is
        apparently
        > dressed only in his shirt) -- and we saw Tosh and Mary apparently
        post
        > coital so she got some in series one -- so here's to hoping and
        praying
        > that Jack AND Ianto manage to get some in series two with a bit
        more
        > evidence for the audience
        >
        > pfyre
        >
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