Re: Anyone Else Hate Gwen? (and Owen)
- There's no question that Owen is a jerk. But the major difference
(for me) is that Owen doesn't pretend to be anything other than a
jerk. Thus he's in character as one might say. His thing is that
everyone, including him, is surprised when he actually manages to
find a more positive emotion as in Ghost Machine or Out of Time.
I think this is why he annoys me less than Gwen. He's pretty much as
advertised on the wrapper. She on the other hand puts out a front of
being the voice of moral rectitude while her own actions are
questionable at best. Owen's a jerk who occasionally shows redeeming
virtues. Gwen's the saintly girl whose real self is less virtuous
than her image.
The Owen thing certainly was introduced as a surprise. Clearly early
on the writers lead-on was that she was attracted to Jack (who
isn't). Her denial of Owen's assertion that Jack's gay and her
almost girlish gushing over his fashion choices made that pretty
clear. And after initial nervousness she got into the gun/flirting
session pretty quickly. Plus the monopolizing Jack's corpse should
leave you wondering. At that point Rhys had been resurrected
remember. Did she just blow him off for days while she hovered over
Jack's body while others, like Ianto, dealt with their feelings more
That was typical Gwen, especially as regards Rhys. So was the Retcon
incident. Likewise, when Tosh read her mind she clearly got that
Gwen knew her affair with Owen was wrong, but that she wasn't going
to stop it. Gwen's repeating pattern is one of possession. Jack is
her's, even when he's dead. Rhys is her's too, even if she has to
lie to him or dose him with Retcon, as long as she can keep him at
It wouldn't irk me so much if this Melrose Place Gwen stuff weren't a
drain on screen time for characters that are interesting like Ianto
or Tosh. Tosh was great in Greeks Bearing Gifts and Captain Jack
Harkness, especially the latter. Maybe because Gwen wasn't in 1941
to body block her from participating in the story. There's a good
reason the writers sent Tosh back with Jack and it wasn't just to
highlight WWII anti-Japanese prejudice. If Gwen had been there the
real Jack wouldn't have been able to get within ten meters of
She gets way too much screen time for someone who basically does
1) Misuse her boyfriend
2) Preach at her co-workers
3) Pretend to be the "human" influence on the team
If she's supposed to provide a character that the audience can relate
to then RTD must think his audience is Britney Spears.
I am sooooooooo hoping that they shove her into the background in
Series Two. But that's probably too much to hope for.
- This is very true. But pound for pound, Jack is so far weighing in
as a shy virgin compared to someone like, say, Patrick on Coupling.
Now granted, Coupling was a relationship comedy whereas Torchwood is
a sci-fi show. But as you noted below, we have more concrete
evidence of sex on the parts of Gwen, Owen and Tosh.
It is true that imagination can be relied upon to fill in the blanks
as it were. And where that fails there's all those lovely people
writing fanfic (about 3/4 of which is Jack/Ianto bless their little
hearts). It is true that while all of Torchwood's gay audience and
most of it's straight female audience would be perfectly fine with
the sight of Jack and Ianto doing something rather more graphic, it's
open to debate if the straight male demographic (the usual core sci-
fi audience) would cope well, even allowing for the fact that the
British have more evolved sensibilities than Americans.
Naturally this is manifest in the fact that Jack's kiss with Jack, or
even his brief one with Ianto, is considered as more "daring" than
Owen and Diane being shown in bed. Welcome back to Melrose Place.
Still it is irksome though. Plus, Jack and Ianto frankly have more
chemistry than Gwen and Owen. It's that whole angsty men together
I suppose it's just a little funny, because so much hype has been put
to this, but really only Carys's possession by alien sex gas was
really especially titillating. Otherwise Torchwood is noticeably
less risque than Buffy the Vampire Slayer was.
Jack may have some major issues going back to his abandonment by the
Doctor and Rose (however unintentional it may have been). But for
pity's sake that was at least a century ago on his personal
timeline! At some point you just have to get over it Jack! May
series two bring a little more "excitement" to the show. And fewer
--- In email@example.com, pfyre <pfyre@...> wrote:
> this is not an usual scenario in television series - I recall a
> series in which the nominal lead was supposed to be the 'ladies'
> always on the prowl, on the make, and yet if you were to go back
> the eps of the series - the socalled ladies man had very few dates
> less much else and yet the secondary lead was the one hopping in
and out of
> bed - but to this day the illusion persists
> that's what they've done with Jack - right from 'The Empty Child'
> we've gotten plenty of innuendo and double entendres galore but as
> actual physical evidence of Jack doing more than flirting and
> kissing we've gotten virtually nada hard evidence -- yet I'd be
> bet that the average and casual viewers of DW and/or TW would still
> that Jack in the rogue the one on the make and constantly hopping
> whether occupied by male or female or some other gender human or
> perhaps because as open and progressive as British tv and audiences
> you have to wonder if they're truly ready to see Jack shagging a
> alien or exquisitely, gorgeous Ianto? we want to see it, but is the
> audience member ready for it?
> I honestly don't think this means that Ianto is 'no one' to Jack
but more a
> comment on that there is no one that Jack has been able to be
> completely open about himself since being brought back to life on
> Five and abandoned by the two people he loved and trusted....
> me too - though we would have to say there is some proof that Gwen
> getting some from both Rhys and Owen (Rhys leaving the bed starkers
> morning, etc. - Owen, starkers, stepping up behind Gwen - who is
> dressed only in his shirt) -- and we saw Tosh and Mary apparently
> coital so she got some in series one -- so here's to hoping and
> that Jack AND Ianto manage to get some in series two with a bit
> evidence for the audience