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Re: [Tomy Tutor] Assembler/Basic and Cassette

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  • Cameron Kaiser
    ... No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image files and
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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      > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
      > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
      > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
      >
      > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?

      No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
      pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
      files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
      code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
      loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

      > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
      > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
      > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?

      If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
      with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
      which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
      the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
      external to the CPU).

      However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
      and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
      GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
      very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

      > TODO:
      > * debug the tape interface (Saved tapes sound OK, both Verify and Load
      > recognize the tape as a Tomy tape, but the data seems to be corrupted and
      > we end with a read error.)

      I'm glad Raphael had the same problem -- that proves I'm not totally
      incompetent! :-D

      > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
      > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
      > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
      > early eighties.

      The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
      based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
      the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
      systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
      the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

      --
      ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
      Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
      -- Nuclear war would really set back cable. -- Ted Turner ---------------------
    • kabldb
      ... Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic. ... I think there s enough info in the MESS source to work things out. ... Well, I wasn t actually trying to
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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        > > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
        > > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
        > > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
        > >
        > > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?
        >
        > No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
        > pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
        > files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
        > code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
        > loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

        Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic.

        > > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
        > > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
        > > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?
        >
        > If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
        > with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
        > which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
        > the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
        > external to the CPU).
        >
        > However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
        > and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
        > GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
        > very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

        I think there's enough info in the MESS source to work things out.

        > > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
        > > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
        > > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
        > > early eighties.
        >
        > The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
        > based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
        > the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
        > systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
        > the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

        Well, I wasn't actually trying to cross anything over there. Let's just only talk Tomy Tutor not to confuse anything. When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds. I know it's a strange discovery, and it is probably leading nowhere. I've uploaded the 2 recordings. When the load error occurs at 10.5 seconds the volume of feedback is lowered.

        ;-)
      • Cameron Kaiser
        ... I m not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I ll probably focus on MESS at
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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          > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
          > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
          > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.

          I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
          tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
          MESS at that point.

          --
          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
          -- The best things in life are sold out. --------------------------------------
        • kabldb
          ... No, why should you, it s broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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            > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
            > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
            > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
            >
            > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
            > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
            > MESS at that point.

            No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

            ;-)
          • Cameron Kaiser
            ... I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the lead-in
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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              > > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
              > > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
              > > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
              > >
              > > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
              > > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
              > > MESS at that point.
              >
              > No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have
              > expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought
              > that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the
              > cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

              I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the
              lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the
              lead-in sequence longer, it does not get detected by the machine. Like I say,
              I suspect there is something different about either how the Data Recorder
              writes the data, *or* how it plays it back, and that should be duplicatable
              either in software or with a trivial analogue circuit.

              --
              ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
              Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
              -- IBM is not a necessary evil. IBM is not necessary. -- Ted Nelson -----------
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