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Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?

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  • Cameron Kaiser
    ... The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette. Otherwise it s pretty complete; it even has parallel port support. I m myself
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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      > I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it
      > seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some
      > interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier
      > to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?

      The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette.
      Otherwise it's pretty complete; it even has parallel port support.

      I'm myself (between Classilla and TTYtter and all my other projects) trying
      to get the Tutor to reliably load and save "via tape" to my Power Mac. I've
      got the tape system decoded and I can actually frame the bit stream and
      look at the data it writes to cassette, but I can't get the Tutor to *load*
      from the Mac. I don't think it's the Mac; I remember trying to use a friend's
      Windows machine to do the same thing and having the same problem.

      Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
      circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even
      cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.

      --
      ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
      Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
      -- Isaiah 30:15 ---------------------------------------------------------------
    • Bill Loguidice
      I would count as an active or potential user . I have two Tomy Tutors, accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese ones. As with
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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        I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
        accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
        ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I definitely
        actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
        hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
        had no luck.

        ====================================================
        Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
        Armchair Arcade, Inc.
        <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
        ====================================================
        Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
        http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
        Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
        http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
        ====================================================
        LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
        ====================================================



        From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of kabldb
        Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39 AM
        To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





        Really nice. Thanks.

        I tried Wayback, but got "Failed Connection" (from Wayback). I'll try again
        later.

        I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it
        seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some
        interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier
        to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?

        How many units did Tomy and friends sell ? Are there any active or potential
        users out there ?

        I'll try and go thru all of floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy ...

        ;-)



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cameron Kaiser
        ... I m still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool. -- ...
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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          > I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
          > accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
          > ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I definitely
          > actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
          > hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
          > had no luck.

          I'm still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have
          Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool.

          --
          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
          -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ----------
        • Bill Loguidice
          The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It s my understanding that the Tutor runs all
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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            The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
            on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
            all games.



            I'd love to get Rescue Copter above all others, though I'd certainly take
            any of them.



            ====================================================
            Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
            Armchair Arcade, Inc.
            <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
            ====================================================
            Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
            http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
            Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
            http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
            ====================================================
            LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
            http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
            ====================================================



            From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Cameron Kaiser
            Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:55 AM
            To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





            > I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
            > accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
            > ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I
            definitely
            > actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
            > hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
            > had no luck.

            I'm still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have
            Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool.

            --
            ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
            --
            Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
            <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
            -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn
            ----------





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cameron Kaiser
            ... Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the way the
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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              > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
              > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
              > all games.

              Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
              mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
              way the I/O port works.

              --
              ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
              Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
              -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------
            • Bill Loguidice
              Interesting. Care to share what you might have planned for the I/O port, assuming you were able to learn more about it?
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                Interesting. Care to share what you might have planned for the I/O port,
                assuming you were able to learn more about it?



                ====================================================
                Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                ====================================================
                Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                ====================================================
                LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                ====================================================



                From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Cameron Kaiser
                Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:01 PM
                To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work
                correctly
                > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor
                runs
                > all games.

                Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                way the I/O port works.

                --
                ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
                --
                Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
                -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy.
                -----------------





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ksarulofpurdimal
                I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                  I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly, I have one of the Japanese tape games.

                  Jim


                  --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
                  > > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
                  > > all games.
                  >
                  > Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                  > mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                  > way the I/O port works.
                  >
                  > --
                  > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                  > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                  > -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------
                  >
                • Bill Loguidice
                  Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What s on the tape?
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                    Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get
                    a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?



                    ====================================================
                    Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                    Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                    <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                    ====================================================
                    Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                    http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                    Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                    http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                    ====================================================
                    LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                    http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                    ====================================================



                    From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of ksarulofpurdimal
                    Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 1:49 PM
                    To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                    I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the
                    original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges
                    except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                    boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly,
                    I have one of the Japanese tape games.

                    Jim

                    --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tomytutor%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work
                    correctly
                    > > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor
                    runs
                    > > all games.
                    >
                    > Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                    > mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                    > way the I/O port works.
                    >
                    > --
                    > ------------------------------------ personal:
                    http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                    > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                    > -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy.
                    -----------------
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Cameron Kaiser
                    ... If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I m about to crack a Data
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                      > > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the
                      > > original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges
                      > > except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                      > > boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly,
                      > > I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                      >
                      > Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get
                      > a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?

                      If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to
                      talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I'm about to crack a
                      Data Recorder open to see if there is some logic in there controlling input
                      to the computer.

                      I have TRON, but will not part with it :) I would love to find a Japanese
                      demo cartridge -- I only have the American one, but I did make a video
                      capture of it:

                      http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/purcell.html
                      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2280154749483391062

                      I would be very interested to see a capture of the Japanese demo cartridge,
                      too. Translating it would be trivial.

                      --
                      ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                      Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                      -- Never trust a computer you can't lift. -- Mac rollout, 24 January 1984 -----
                    • Bill Loguidice
                      I know it probably wouldn t make much of a difference, but have you tried using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                        I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but have you tried
                        using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                        (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23174%3B+-+CD/MD/MP3+Cassette+Adapter/
                        6323686.p?skuId=6323686&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6323686&ref=06&loc=01&id=1077
                        625430711) in the original Tutor tape drive and running it from there rather
                        than straight from the audio out? I have yet to try it myself, but it might
                        be a more reliable way of making the stuff work.



                        ====================================================
                        Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                        Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                        <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                        ====================================================
                        Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                        http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                        Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                        http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                        ====================================================
                        LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                        http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                        ====================================================



                        From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Cameron Kaiser
                        Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 3:15 PM
                        To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                        > > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for
                        the
                        > > original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese
                        cartridges
                        > > except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                        > > boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online.
                        Lastly,
                        > > I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                        >
                        > Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to
                        get
                        > a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?

                        If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to
                        talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I'm about to crack a
                        Data Recorder open to see if there is some logic in there controlling input
                        to the computer.

                        I have TRON, but will not part with it :) I would love to find a Japanese
                        demo cartridge -- I only have the American one, but I did make a video
                        capture of it:

                        http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/purcell.html
                        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2280154749483391062

                        I would be very interested to see a capture of the Japanese demo cartridge,
                        too. Translating it would be trivial.

                        --
                        ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
                        --
                        Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                        <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
                        -- Never trust a computer you can't lift. -- Mac rollout, 24 January 1984
                        -----





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cameron Kaiser
                        ... I suspect it wouldn t. I m just going to go straight to the source and watch the signal with an oscilloscope from the Mac and from the Data Recorder. I
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                          > I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but have you tried
                          > using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                          > (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23174%3B+-+CD/MD/MP3+Cassette+Adapter/
                          > 6323686.p?skuId=6323686&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6323686&ref=06&loc=01&id=1077
                          > 625430711) in the original Tutor tape drive and running it from there rather
                          > than straight from the audio out? I have yet to try it myself, but it might
                          > be a more reliable way of making the stuff work.

                          I suspect it wouldn't. I'm just going to go straight to the source and watch
                          the signal with an oscilloscope from the Mac and from the Data Recorder. I
                          also need to make sure signal voltage and impedance are the same.

                          --
                          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                          -- If the cops know where Heisenberg is, can he be caught speeding? -----------
                        • kabldb
                          /quote Once I figure out what I m doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            /quote
                            Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                            /unquote

                            Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?

                            I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?

                            /quote
                            The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette. Otherwise it's pretty complete; it even has parallel port support.

                            I'm myself (between Classilla and TTYtter and all my other projects) trying to get the Tutor to reliably load and save "via tape" to my Power Mac. I've got the tape system decoded and I can actually frame the bit stream and look at the data it writes to cassette, but I can't get the Tutor to *load* from the Mac. I don't think it's the Mac; I remember trying to use a friend's Windows machine to do the same thing and having the same problem.
                            /unquote

                            Thanks. I looked at the notes in MESS source ...

                            /quote
                            TODO:
                            * debug the tape interface (Saved tapes sound OK, both Verify and Load recognize the tape as a Tomy tape, but the data seems to be corrupted and we end with a read error.)
                            /unquote

                            I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the early eighties. I loaded the TI file back into the TI-99/4A, and audio feedback was as expected. All went well. I tried and load the Tomy file back into Tomy Tutor (remember I'm an all emulator guy), and at first it sounded as the wave file, then it sounded as if it was changing to a higher pitch/tune and then came the data sounding different (the MESS audio feedback was different from just listening to the wave file) and rather quickly an error occurs (feedback continues). This is what I get:
                            ?U FIND
                            * READY
                            In both cases the audio format are 16 bits mono 44100 Hz, and the actually data recorded are 1 bit. It looks like it's being held for 64 samples with the TI and 50 samples with the Tomy.

                            :-)
                          • kabldb
                            Yeah, if not scans, then let us have pictures of adapter, boxes and tape.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                              Yeah, if not scans, then let us have pictures of adapter, boxes and tape.

                              :-)


                              --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, ksarulofpurdimal <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly, I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                              >
                              > Jim
                              >
                              >
                            • Cameron Kaiser
                              ... No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image files and
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
                                > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
                                > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                                >
                                > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?

                                No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
                                pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
                                files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
                                code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
                                loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

                                > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
                                > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
                                > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?

                                If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
                                with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
                                which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
                                the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
                                external to the CPU).

                                However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
                                and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
                                GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
                                very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

                                > TODO:
                                > * debug the tape interface (Saved tapes sound OK, both Verify and Load
                                > recognize the tape as a Tomy tape, but the data seems to be corrupted and
                                > we end with a read error.)

                                I'm glad Raphael had the same problem -- that proves I'm not totally
                                incompetent! :-D

                                > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
                                > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
                                > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
                                > early eighties.

                                The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
                                based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
                                the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
                                systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
                                the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

                                --
                                ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                -- Nuclear war would really set back cable. -- Ted Turner ---------------------
                              • kabldb
                                ... Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic. ... I think there s enough info in the MESS source to work things out. ... Well, I wasn t actually trying to
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
                                  > > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
                                  > > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                                  > >
                                  > > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?
                                  >
                                  > No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
                                  > pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
                                  > files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
                                  > code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
                                  > loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

                                  Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic.

                                  > > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
                                  > > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
                                  > > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?
                                  >
                                  > If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
                                  > with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
                                  > which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
                                  > the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
                                  > external to the CPU).
                                  >
                                  > However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
                                  > and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
                                  > GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
                                  > very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

                                  I think there's enough info in the MESS source to work things out.

                                  > > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
                                  > > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
                                  > > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
                                  > > early eighties.
                                  >
                                  > The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
                                  > based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
                                  > the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
                                  > systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
                                  > the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

                                  Well, I wasn't actually trying to cross anything over there. Let's just only talk Tomy Tutor not to confuse anything. When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds. I know it's a strange discovery, and it is probably leading nowhere. I've uploaded the 2 recordings. When the load error occurs at 10.5 seconds the volume of feedback is lowered.

                                  ;-)
                                • Cameron Kaiser
                                  ... I m not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I ll probably focus on MESS at
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                    > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                    > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                    > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.

                                    I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                    tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                    MESS at that point.

                                    --
                                    ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                    Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                    -- The best things in life are sold out. --------------------------------------
                                  • kabldb
                                    ... No, why should you, it s broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                      > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                      > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                      > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                      > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                      > MESS at that point.

                                      No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

                                      ;-)
                                    • Cameron Kaiser
                                      ... I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the lead-in
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                        > > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                        > > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                        > > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                        > > MESS at that point.
                                        >
                                        > No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have
                                        > expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought
                                        > that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the
                                        > cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

                                        I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the
                                        lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the
                                        lead-in sequence longer, it does not get detected by the machine. Like I say,
                                        I suspect there is something different about either how the Data Recorder
                                        writes the data, *or* how it plays it back, and that should be duplicatable
                                        either in software or with a trivial analogue circuit.

                                        --
                                        ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                        Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                        -- IBM is not a necessary evil. IBM is not necessary. -- Ted Nelson -----------
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