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Re: [Tomy Tutor] Technical manuals ?

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  • ksarulofpurdimal
    Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full translation for
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 18, 2010
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      Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full translation for us. Then you can add the data to your tech repository.

      If you didn't, looks like it is time to engage the Wayback Machine to retrieve a copy of it.

      Jim

      --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I have Tomy Tutor working with MESS. Where do I find information about the
      > > architecture, chips, cartridge layouts, console software (ROMs) and stuff ?
      >
      > There really isn't much technical documentation. I've collected what I have
      > and what I've independently discovered here
      >
      > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/hardware.html
      > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/mmap.html
      >
      > but it's really not very much, compared to, say, the C64. PyutaDev used to
      > have some useful tech data (for people who Nihongo ga hanasu) but it
      > appears to have gone to the great Yahoo! in the sky.
      >
      > --
      > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
      > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
      > -- There's always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby. -- Tom Waits -------------
      >
    • ksarulofpurdimal
      Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full translation for
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 18, 2010
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        Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full translation for us. Then you can add the data to your tech repository.

        If you didn't, looks like it is time to engage the Wayback Machine to retrieve a copy of it.

        Jim

        --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I have Tomy Tutor working with MESS. Where do I find information about the
        > > architecture, chips, cartridge layouts, console software (ROMs) and stuff ?
        >
        > There really isn't much technical documentation. I've collected what I have
        > and what I've independently discovered here
        >
        > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/hardware.html
        > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/mmap.html
        >
        > but it's really not very much, compared to, say, the C64. PyutaDev used to
        > have some useful tech data (for people who Nihongo ga hanasu) but it
        > appears to have gone to the great Yahoo! in the sky.
        >
        > --
        > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
        > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
        > -- There's always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby. -- Tom Waits -------------
        >
      • Cameron Kaiser
        ... I have some of it, but that s a good idea -- I should Wayback it. I ll try to do that later unless someone is bored :) the URL for PyutaDev is on the ...
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 18, 2010
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          > Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it
          > disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full
          > translation for us. Then you can add the data to your tech repository.

          I have some of it, but that's a good idea -- I should Wayback it. I'll try
          to do that later unless someone is bored :) the URL for PyutaDev is on the
          memory map page:

          > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/mmap.html

          --
          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
          -- I've been walking on clouds/'n flipping off rainbows ... -- Strong Bad #150
        • kabldb
          Really nice. Thanks. I tried Wayback, but got Failed Connection (from Wayback). I ll try again later. I didn t test anything but some games with the Tomy
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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            Really nice. Thanks.

            I tried Wayback, but got "Failed Connection" (from Wayback). I'll try again later.

            I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?

            How many units did Tomy and friends sell ? Are there any active or potential users out there ?

            I'll try and go thru all of floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy ...

            ;-)



            --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it
            > > disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full
            > > translation for us. Then you can add the data to your tech repository.
            >
            > I have some of it, but that's a good idea -- I should Wayback it. I'll try
            > to do that later unless someone is bored :) the URL for PyutaDev is on the
            > memory map page:
            >
            > > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/mmap.html
            >
            > --
            > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
            > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
            > -- I've been walking on clouds/'n flipping off rainbows ... -- Strong Bad #150
            >
          • kabldb
            Oh, and there s a TutorEm in the files section.
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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              Oh, and there's a TutorEm in the files section.

              :-)



              --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, "kabldb" <kabldb@...> wrote:
              >
              > Really nice. Thanks.
              >
              > I tried Wayback, but got "Failed Connection" (from Wayback). I'll try again later.
              >
              > I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?
              >
              > How many units did Tomy and friends sell ? Are there any active or potential users out there ?
              >
              > I'll try and go thru all of floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy ...
              >
              > ;-)
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Did you manage to scrape a copy of the data off of PyutaDev before it
              > > > disappeared, Cameron? I have a friend who might have time to do a full
              > > > translation for us. Then you can add the data to your tech repository.
              > >
              > > I have some of it, but that's a good idea -- I should Wayback it. I'll try
              > > to do that later unless someone is bored :) the URL for PyutaDev is on the
              > > memory map page:
              > >
              > > > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/mmap.html
              > >
              > > --
              > > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
              > > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@
              > > -- I've been walking on clouds/'n flipping off rainbows ... -- Strong Bad #150
              > >
              >
            • Cameron Kaiser
              ... The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette. Otherwise it s pretty complete; it even has parallel port support. I m myself
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                > I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it
                > seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some
                > interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier
                > to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?

                The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette.
                Otherwise it's pretty complete; it even has parallel port support.

                I'm myself (between Classilla and TTYtter and all my other projects) trying
                to get the Tutor to reliably load and save "via tape" to my Power Mac. I've
                got the tape system decoded and I can actually frame the bit stream and
                look at the data it writes to cassette, but I can't get the Tutor to *load*
                from the Mac. I don't think it's the Mac; I remember trying to use a friend's
                Windows machine to do the same thing and having the same problem.

                Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
                circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even
                cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.

                --
                ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                -- Isaiah 30:15 ---------------------------------------------------------------
              • Bill Loguidice
                I would count as an active or potential user . I have two Tomy Tutors, accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese ones. As with
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                  I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
                  accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
                  ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I definitely
                  actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
                  hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
                  had no luck.

                  ====================================================
                  Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                  Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                  <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                  ====================================================
                  Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                  http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                  Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                  http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                  ====================================================
                  LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                  ====================================================



                  From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of kabldb
                  Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:39 AM
                  To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                  Really nice. Thanks.

                  I tried Wayback, but got "Failed Connection" (from Wayback). I'll try again
                  later.

                  I didn't test anything but some games with the Tomy Tutor in MESS, and it
                  seems to work fine. I looked into the MESS source and there are some
                  interesting details by Raphael Nabet, 2003. I tried to contact him earlier
                  to no avail. How stable would you say this MESS version is ?

                  How many units did Tomy and friends sell ? Are there any active or potential
                  users out there ?

                  I'll try and go thru all of floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy ...

                  ;-)



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Cameron Kaiser
                  ... I m still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool. -- ...
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                    > I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
                    > accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
                    > ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I definitely
                    > actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
                    > hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
                    > had no luck.

                    I'm still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have
                    Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool.

                    --
                    ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                    Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                    -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ----------
                  • Bill Loguidice
                    The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It s my understanding that the Tutor runs all
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                      The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
                      on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
                      all games.



                      I'd love to get Rescue Copter above all others, though I'd certainly take
                      any of them.



                      ====================================================
                      Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                      Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                      <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                      ====================================================
                      Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                      http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                      Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                      http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                      ====================================================
                      LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                      http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                      ====================================================



                      From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Cameron Kaiser
                      Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:55 AM
                      To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                      > I would count as an "active or potential user". I have two Tomy Tutors,
                      > accessories, and several cartridges, including a handful of the Japanese
                      > ones. As with most of my collection I rarely get to use it, but I
                      definitely
                      > actively collect for it. Like most Tutor collectors, I'd love to get my
                      > hands on some of the "3D"/next gen Japanese cartridges, though so far I've
                      > had no luck.

                      I'm still trying to track down one of those Pyuuta adapters. I do have
                      Baseball and Battlefighter (3D), though Rescue Copter looks really cool.

                      --
                      ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
                      --
                      Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                      <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
                      -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn
                      ----------





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Cameron Kaiser
                      ... Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the way the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                        > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
                        > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
                        > all games.

                        Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                        mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                        way the I/O port works.

                        --
                        ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                        Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                        -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------
                      • Bill Loguidice
                        Interesting. Care to share what you might have planned for the I/O port, assuming you were able to learn more about it?
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                          Interesting. Care to share what you might have planned for the I/O port,
                          assuming you were able to learn more about it?



                          ====================================================
                          Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                          Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                          <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                          ====================================================
                          Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                          http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                          Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                          http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                          ====================================================
                          LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                          http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                          ====================================================



                          From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Cameron Kaiser
                          Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:01 PM
                          To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                          > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work
                          correctly
                          > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor
                          runs
                          > all games.

                          Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                          mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                          way the I/O port works.

                          --
                          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
                          --
                          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                          <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
                          -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy.
                          -----------------





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ksarulofpurdimal
                          I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                            I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly, I have one of the Japanese tape games.

                            Jim


                            --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work correctly
                            > > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor runs
                            > > all games.
                            >
                            > Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                            > mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                            > way the I/O port works.
                            >
                            > --
                            > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                            > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                            > -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------
                            >
                          • Bill Loguidice
                            Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What s on the tape?
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                              Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get
                              a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?



                              ====================================================
                              Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                              Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                              <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                              ====================================================
                              Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                              http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                              Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                              http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                              ====================================================
                              LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                              http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                              ====================================================



                              From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of ksarulofpurdimal
                              Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 1:49 PM
                              To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                              I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the
                              original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges
                              except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                              boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly,
                              I have one of the Japanese tape games.

                              Jim

                              --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tomytutor%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                              Cameron Kaiser <spectre@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > The Pyuuta adapter is only for certain Pyuuta/Tutor games to work
                              correctly
                              > > on certain Pyuuta systems, right? It's my understanding that the Tutor
                              runs
                              > > all games.
                              >
                              > Right, and (TTBOMK) so does the Pyuuta Jr and Mark II. However, I want it
                              > mostly to look at the hardware to give me a little more insight into the
                              > way the I/O port works.
                              >
                              > --
                              > ------------------------------------ personal:
                              http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                              > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                              > -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy.
                              -----------------
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Cameron Kaiser
                              ... If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I m about to crack a Data
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the
                                > > original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges
                                > > except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                                > > boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly,
                                > > I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                                >
                                > Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to get
                                > a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?

                                If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to
                                talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I'm about to crack a
                                Data Recorder open to see if there is some logic in there controlling input
                                to the computer.

                                I have TRON, but will not part with it :) I would love to find a Japanese
                                demo cartridge -- I only have the American one, but I did make a video
                                capture of it:

                                http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/purcell.html
                                http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2280154749483391062

                                I would be very interested to see a capture of the Japanese demo cartridge,
                                too. Translating it would be trivial.

                                --
                                ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                -- Never trust a computer you can't lift. -- Mac rollout, 24 January 1984 -----
                              • Bill Loguidice
                                I know it probably wouldn t make much of a difference, but have you tried using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but have you tried
                                  using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                                  (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23174%3B+-+CD/MD/MP3+Cassette+Adapter/
                                  6323686.p?skuId=6323686&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6323686&ref=06&loc=01&id=1077
                                  625430711) in the original Tutor tape drive and running it from there rather
                                  than straight from the audio out? I have yet to try it myself, but it might
                                  be a more reliable way of making the stuff work.



                                  ====================================================
                                  Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
                                  Armchair Arcade, Inc.
                                  <http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
                                  ====================================================
                                  Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
                                  http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
                                  Film: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/film>
                                  http://www.armchairarcade.com/film
                                  ====================================================
                                  LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
                                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
                                  ====================================================



                                  From: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tomytutor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of Cameron Kaiser
                                  Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 3:15 PM
                                  To: tomytutor@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Tomy Tutor] Re: Technical manuals ?





                                  > > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for
                                  the
                                  > > original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese
                                  cartridges
                                  > > except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the
                                  > > boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online.
                                  Lastly,
                                  > > I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                                  >
                                  > Is the Japanese tape game available online? If not, it would be great to
                                  get
                                  > a WAV of it for play on a real Tutor/Pyuuta. What's on the tape?

                                  If someone manages to get the Tutor to *load* from a .wav, I would like to
                                  talk to that person. I have not yet been successful -- I'm about to crack a
                                  Data Recorder open to see if there is some logic in there controlling input
                                  to the computer.

                                  I have TRON, but will not part with it :) I would love to find a Japanese
                                  demo cartridge -- I only have the American one, but I did make a video
                                  capture of it:

                                  http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/purcell.html
                                  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2280154749483391062

                                  I would be very interested to see a capture of the Japanese demo cartridge,
                                  too. Translating it would be trivial.

                                  --
                                  ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
                                  --
                                  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                  <mailto:ckaiser%40floodgap.com>
                                  -- Never trust a computer you can't lift. -- Mac rollout, 24 January 1984
                                  -----





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Cameron Kaiser
                                  ... I suspect it wouldn t. I m just going to go straight to the source and watch the signal with an oscilloscope from the Mac and from the Data Recorder. I
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but have you tried
                                    > using one of those CD to cassette adapters
                                    > (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23174%3B+-+CD/MD/MP3+Cassette+Adapter/
                                    > 6323686.p?skuId=6323686&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6323686&ref=06&loc=01&id=1077
                                    > 625430711) in the original Tutor tape drive and running it from there rather
                                    > than straight from the audio out? I have yet to try it myself, but it might
                                    > be a more reliable way of making the stuff work.

                                    I suspect it wouldn't. I'm just going to go straight to the source and watch
                                    the signal with an oscilloscope from the Mac and from the Data Recorder. I
                                    also need to make sure signal voltage and impedance are the same.

                                    --
                                    ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                    Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                    -- If the cops know where Heisenberg is, can he be caught speeding? -----------
                                  • kabldb
                                    /quote Once I figure out what I m doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                                      /quote
                                      Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                                      /unquote

                                      Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?

                                      I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?

                                      /quote
                                      The driver IMHO seems fine to me. The only thing it lacks is cassette. Otherwise it's pretty complete; it even has parallel port support.

                                      I'm myself (between Classilla and TTYtter and all my other projects) trying to get the Tutor to reliably load and save "via tape" to my Power Mac. I've got the tape system decoded and I can actually frame the bit stream and look at the data it writes to cassette, but I can't get the Tutor to *load* from the Mac. I don't think it's the Mac; I remember trying to use a friend's Windows machine to do the same thing and having the same problem.
                                      /unquote

                                      Thanks. I looked at the notes in MESS source ...

                                      /quote
                                      TODO:
                                      * debug the tape interface (Saved tapes sound OK, both Verify and Load recognize the tape as a Tomy tape, but the data seems to be corrupted and we end with a read error.)
                                      /unquote

                                      I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the early eighties. I loaded the TI file back into the TI-99/4A, and audio feedback was as expected. All went well. I tried and load the Tomy file back into Tomy Tutor (remember I'm an all emulator guy), and at first it sounded as the wave file, then it sounded as if it was changing to a higher pitch/tune and then came the data sounding different (the MESS audio feedback was different from just listening to the wave file) and rather quickly an error occurs (feedback continues). This is what I get:
                                      ?U FIND
                                      * READY
                                      In both cases the audio format are 16 bits mono 44100 Hz, and the actually data recorded are 1 bit. It looks like it's being held for 64 samples with the TI and 50 samples with the Tomy.

                                      :-)
                                    • kabldb
                                      Yeah, if not scans, then let us have pictures of adapter, boxes and tape.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 19, 2010
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                                        Yeah, if not scans, then let us have pictures of adapter, boxes and tape.

                                        :-)


                                        --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, ksarulofpurdimal <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I do have one of the Pyuuta adapters, and can verify that it is only for the original version of the Pyuuta. I also have all of the Japanese cartridges except for Superbike, Tron, and the Demonstration cartridge. I have the boxes for 17 of them, which I probably need to scan and put online. Lastly, I have one of the Japanese tape games.
                                        >
                                        > Jim
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Cameron Kaiser
                                        ... No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image files and
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                          > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
                                          > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
                                          > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                                          >
                                          > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?

                                          No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
                                          pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
                                          files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
                                          code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
                                          loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

                                          > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
                                          > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
                                          > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?

                                          If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
                                          with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
                                          which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
                                          the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
                                          external to the CPU).

                                          However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
                                          and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
                                          GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
                                          very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

                                          > TODO:
                                          > * debug the tape interface (Saved tapes sound OK, both Verify and Load
                                          > recognize the tape as a Tomy tape, but the data seems to be corrupted and
                                          > we end with a read error.)

                                          I'm glad Raphael had the same problem -- that proves I'm not totally
                                          incompetent! :-D

                                          > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
                                          > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
                                          > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
                                          > early eighties.

                                          The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
                                          based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
                                          the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
                                          systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
                                          the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

                                          --
                                          ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                          Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                          -- Nuclear war would really set back cable. -- Ted Turner ---------------------
                                        • kabldb
                                          ... Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic. ... I think there s enough info in the MESS source to work things out. ... Well, I wasn t actually trying to
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                            > > > Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong (I suspect I need to make a little
                                            > > > circuit to adjust the audio to what the Tutor is expecting), then we can
                                            > > > even cross-develop and I'll post my work and source code.
                                            > >
                                            > > Would that be 9995 assembly language programming or Basic ?
                                            >
                                            > No, the cross-tape reader is written in Perl, actually. The source is
                                            > pretty easy to understand. When I get it finished, it will accept image
                                            > files and BASIC text. The Tomy OS, TTBOMK, offers no way to load machine
                                            > code from tape through the ROM routines (this makes sense, because it is
                                            > loading everything to VDP RAM, which can't be executed by the CPU).

                                            Okay, so the cross-develop would be Basic.

                                            > > I'm an emulator only guy (once decided to have a clean desk etc.). Since
                                            > > cartridges work fine with MESS, I thought that one could cross assemble and
                                            > > create cartridges. Do you know if 9995 and 9900 and very much alike ?
                                            >
                                            > If you write 9900 code, it should work fine on the 9995. The only difference
                                            > with the 9995 is the built-in scratchpad RAM and the 8-bit muxed data bus,
                                            > which is for most intents and purposes irrelevant to the program (remember,
                                            > the 99/8 is a 9995 also, and the 99/4 has the same scratchpad RAM, just
                                            > external to the CPU).
                                            >
                                            > However, no one has really done much analysis of how to get a ROM to autostart
                                            > and some cartridges may contain Tomy GPL, which is not at all the same as TI
                                            > GPL (as demonstrated by experimentation with the Pyuuta mark II, which has a
                                            > very different CLA than the Pyuuta and Tutor).

                                            I think there's enough info in the MESS source to work things out.

                                            > > I tried to make small programs and save to tape using MESS with both
                                            > > TI-99/4A and Tomy Tutor. I listened to the wave files produced and they
                                            > > sound alright. Different but as I remember the sounds from way back in the
                                            > > early eighties.
                                            >
                                            > The TI and the Tomy have totally different tape formats. IIRC, the TI is
                                            > based on AFSK, while the Tomy uses a purely digital pulse system similar to
                                            > the Commodore, although the bit framing is totally different. The tape
                                            > systems are wholly incompatible, unfortunately, so the research done into
                                            > the TI CS1 formats is no good here.

                                            Well, I wasn't actually trying to cross anything over there. Let's just only talk Tomy Tutor not to confuse anything. When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds. I know it's a strange discovery, and it is probably leading nowhere. I've uploaded the 2 recordings. When the load error occurs at 10.5 seconds the volume of feedback is lowered.

                                            ;-)
                                          • Cameron Kaiser
                                            ... I m not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I ll probably focus on MESS at
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                              > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                              > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                              > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.

                                              I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                              tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                              MESS at that point.

                                              --
                                              ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                              Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                              -- The best things in life are sold out. --------------------------------------
                                            • kabldb
                                              ... No, why should you, it s broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                                > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                                > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                                > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
                                                >
                                                > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                                > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                                > MESS at that point.

                                                No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

                                                ;-)
                                              • Cameron Kaiser
                                                ... I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the lead-in
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                                  > > > When I save from Basic the file created starts with something like a
                                                  > > > constant tone for 8.5 seconds. When I load the same file the feedback in
                                                  > > > MESS only has 2.5 seconds. Both sounds last for 16.5 seconds.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I'm not desperately relying on MESS as a source of veracity regarding the
                                                  > > tape. Once I have it working with the real Tutor, I'll probably focus on
                                                  > > MESS at that point.
                                                  >
                                                  > No, why should you, it's broken. I was only trying to help. I would have
                                                  > expected the feedback to be very much like the saved file. And I thought
                                                  > that this info might raise an eyebrow and maybe give input to tackle the
                                                  > cassette problem from other angles. Not that you have to or anything.

                                                  I apologize if it sounded like I was brushing it off, but I assure you the
                                                  lead-in is not the problem; I can detect that easily. Even if I make the
                                                  lead-in sequence longer, it does not get detected by the machine. Like I say,
                                                  I suspect there is something different about either how the Data Recorder
                                                  writes the data, *or* how it plays it back, and that should be duplicatable
                                                  either in software or with a trivial analogue circuit.

                                                  --
                                                  ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
                                                  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@...
                                                  -- IBM is not a necessary evil. IBM is not necessary. -- Ted Nelson -----------
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