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Re: [Tomy Tutor ] Pyuuta Jr. Innards

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  • Cameron Kaiser
    ... ... and, while I m thinking of it, if the MONitor *does* appear, does it still work when a cartridge is plugged in? Thanks very, very much for the
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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      > This is quite interesting. The Custom Logic Array is very abbreviated
      > compared to a Tutor or full Pyuuta (and the DCSG is not part of it here;
      > it's up next to the cartridge slot). There is only one ROM "JR", so
      > obviously no Tomy BASIC. Is there GBASIC or a MONitor? (GRAPHIC mode,
      > press MODE three times, press MONITOR). The keys allege there is, but
      > it must not use the regular four-letter words.

      ... and, while I'm thinking of it, if the MONitor *does* appear, does it
      still work when a cartridge is plugged in?

      Thanks very, very much for the pictures!

      --
      ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
      Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
      -- We're Starfleet officers ... weird is just part of the job. -- ST: Voyager -
    • haohmaruus
      Sure, I ll get a picture of the loading screen and whatnot tomorrow if I have a chance. I don t know when I ll get actual cartridges for it, though, it depends
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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        Sure, I'll get a picture of the loading screen and whatnot tomorrow if
        I have a chance. I don't know when I'll get actual cartridges for it,
        though, it depends on if I want to pay for faster shipping (1 week) or
        the slower stuff (2 months).

        I assume MONitor is some sort of assembly monitor? That would be odd to
        include on what's essentially a gaming system. I assume that's why the
        circuitry is so much simpler, too. Maybe the Custom Logic Array (which
        I assume is used for address decoding)is simpler because it doesn't
        have to address as wide of an address space (since there's only one
        system ROM).

        And in pictures I've seen of the Pyuuta Jr., it's often shown with a
        tape drive attached. I wonder what it was used for.
      • Cameron Kaiser
        ... No sweat, I m just happy to get pictures. :) ... No, the MONitor is actually the interface to GBASIC, which is the Pyuuta s original tongue. It s used also
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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          > Sure, I'll get a picture of the loading screen and whatnot tomorrow if
          > I have a chance. I don't know when I'll get actual cartridges for it,
          > though, it depends on if I want to pay for faster shipping (1 week) or
          > the slower stuff (2 months).

          No sweat, I'm just happy to get pictures. :)

          > I assume MONitor is some sort of assembly monitor? That would be odd to
          > include on what's essentially a gaming system. I assume that's why the
          > circuitry is so much simpler, too. Maybe the Custom Logic Array (which
          > I assume is used for address decoding)is simpler because it doesn't
          > have to address as wide of an address space (since there's only one
          > system ROM).

          No, the MONitor is actually the interface to GBASIC, which is the Pyuuta's
          original tongue. It's used also for loading and saving in GRAPHIC mode.
          Look at

          http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/gbasic.html

          for what the MONitor looks like on a Tomy, and

          http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/gbkeyw.html

          for MONitor and GBASIC instructions.

          > And in pictures I've seen of the Pyuuta Jr., it's often shown with a
          > tape drive attached. I wonder what it was used for.

          I presume to load and save sprites and graphics. I guess that's all you
          could realistically do, assuming GBASIC isn't actually on the unit's ROM.
          That function is probably mediated by whatever MONitor the Jr has.

          Yes, the CLA is used for address decoding. On the twin-ROM Tutor, it's
          quite complex. If you look at the hardware illustration at

          http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/hardware.html

          you'll see a lot more discrete logic on the Tutor's mainboard than what
          the Jr's sporting there. I agree the reason is likely the single ROM.

          --
          ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
          Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
          -- Out of my mind (back in an hour). ------------------------------------------
        • ksarulofpurdimal
          ... I have one commercial Japanese tape for the Pyuuta. . . Jim
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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            --- In tomytutor@yahoogroups.com, "haohmaruus" <ccollet@e...> wrote:

            >
            > And in pictures I've seen of the Pyuuta Jr., it's often shown with a
            > tape drive attached. I wonder what it was used for.



            I have one commercial Japanese tape for the Pyuuta. . .

            Jim
          • Cameron Kaiser
            ... For the Jr or the keyboard Pyuuta, though? -- ... Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- I do not fear computers.
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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              > > And in pictures I've seen of the Pyuuta Jr., it's often shown with a
              > > tape drive attached. I wonder what it was used for.
              >
              > I have one commercial Japanese tape for the Pyuuta. . .

              For the Jr or the keyboard Pyuuta, though?

              --
              ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
              Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
              -- I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. -- Isaac Asimov ----------
            • haohmaruus
              I just don t understand where it s supposed to plug in. There s literally three plugs on the Pyuuta Jr: The power cable, the RF port, and the joystick port.
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                I just don't understand where it's supposed to plug in. There's
                literally three plugs on the Pyuuta Jr: The power cable, the RF port,
                and the joystick port.
              • Cameron Kaiser
                ... Hmm. There is one thing interesting on your board, though -- it says Puuta [sic] Jr **B**. I wonder if the A was differently configured. -- ... Cameron
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                  > I just don't understand where it's supposed to plug in. There's
                  > literally three plugs on the Pyuuta Jr: The power cable, the RF port,
                  > and the joystick port.

                  Hmm. There is one thing interesting on your board, though -- it says Puuta
                  [sic] Jr **B**. I wonder if the A was differently configured.

                  --
                  ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
                  Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
                  -- Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary, use words. -- St Francis
                • haohmaruus
                  Hmm, so maybe the previous board rev had the necessary controller and port for the cassette drive. This board looks pretty densely populated for that era,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                    Hmm, so maybe the previous board rev had the necessary controller and
                    port for the cassette drive. This board looks pretty densely populated
                    for that era, though, so it's hard to imagine where they'd put it.

                    Once I have a game for the thing, I'm going to remove the circuit
                    board so I can trace the wires going to the joystick port and
                    hopefully backwards-engineer the pinout. I'll post the pinout, of
                    course, but I'll also look on the bottom of the board for any
                    interesting information written on the silk screen.
                  • haohmaruus
                    Here s a picture of the boot screen: http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutaboot.jpg And here s a picture of the menu:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                      Here's a picture of the boot screen:

                      http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutaboot.jpg

                      And here's a picture of the menu:

                      http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutamenu.jpg
                    • Cameron Kaiser
                      ... Interesting that it s in English. v2.2 ... Tutors and the Pyuuta II have v2.3. -- ... Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA *
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                        > Here's a picture of the boot screen:
                        >
                        > http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutaboot.jpg
                        >
                        > And here's a picture of the menu:
                        >
                        > http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutamenu.jpg

                        Interesting that it's in English. v2.2 ... Tutors and the Pyuuta II have
                        v2.3.

                        --
                        ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
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                      • haohmaruus
                        ... have ... Huh. I wonder why the newer Pyuuta Jr. would be of a earlier revision than the older Pyuutas and Tutors? The whole English thing is confusing,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                          > Interesting that it's in English. v2.2 ... Tutors and the Pyuuta II
                          have
                          > v2.3.

                          Huh. I wonder why the newer Pyuuta Jr. would be of a earlier revision
                          than the older Pyuutas and Tutors? The whole English thing is
                          confusing, too. Perhaps they wanted to keep the door open to a US
                          release.
                        • Cameron Kaiser
                          ... Well, the Pyuuta II was also in English, but it basically was identical to the US Tomy Tutor ROM-1, so that s its explanation. I m not sure why this uses
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                            > > Interesting that it's in English. v2.2 ... Tutors and the Pyuuta II
                            > > have v2.3.
                            >
                            > Huh. I wonder why the newer Pyuuta Jr. would be of a earlier revision
                            > than the older Pyuutas and Tutors? The whole English thing is
                            > confusing, too. Perhaps they wanted to keep the door open to a US
                            > release.

                            Well, the Pyuuta II was also in English, but it basically was identical
                            to the US Tomy Tutor ROM-1, so that's its explanation. I'm not sure why
                            this uses the earlier revision either, unless the version numbering is
                            specific to the Jr and not the whole line (after all, you do have a board
                            rev B, so maybe there were ROM changes also between rev A and rev B and
                            the ROM version numbers are not comparable).

                            One other screenshot, if I could impose -- what does Graphic mode look
                            like? Were you able to get into the MONitor at all?

                            Thanks and sorry to be a pain; this is my first chance to see one of these
                            things in action.

                            --
                            ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
                            Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
                            -- The things which hurt, instruct. -- Benjamin Franklin ----------------------
                          • haohmaruus
                            ... When I hit mode three times and then hit monitor, a little menu appears at the bottom of the screen with the following options: SAVE LOAD VERIFY GRAPH MENU
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                              > One other screenshot, if I could impose -- what does Graphic mode look
                              > like? Were you able to get into the MONitor at all?

                              When I hit mode three times and then hit monitor, a little menu appears
                              at the bottom of the screen with the following options:

                              SAVE LOAD VERIFY GRAPH MENU

                              SAVE, LOAD, and VERIFY make the screen flash a bit and then the system
                              locks up. GRAPH seems to just bring you back to the GRAPHIC program,
                              and MENU brings you back out to the beginning menu. I'll get you a
                              screenshot of it tomorrow.

                              > Thanks and sorry to be a pain; this is my first chance to see one of
                              these
                              > things in action.

                              Not at all! Usually when I get something insanely obscure, even
                              most "classic" gamers or computer fans don't care at all. If you bring
                              up the Pyuuta or PV-1000 or FM-7 or GX4000 or Cassette Vision to them,
                              their eyes just glaze over and they go back to talking about Atari and
                              Commodore. So it's nice for once to not be the only one enthusiastic
                              about getting something so cool and rare.
                            • Cameron Kaiser
                              ... That would be great! Two more things, since MONitor is different: could you also take a picture of GRAPHIC mode after it starts (with the palette below) so
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 9, 2005
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                                > > One other screenshot, if I could impose -- what does Graphic mode look
                                > > like? Were you able to get into the MONitor at all?
                                >
                                > When I hit mode three times and then hit monitor, a little menu appears
                                > at the bottom of the screen with the following options:
                                >
                                > SAVE LOAD VERIFY GRAPH MENU
                                >
                                > SAVE, LOAD, and VERIFY make the screen flash a bit and then the system
                                > locks up. GRAPH seems to just bring you back to the GRAPHIC program,
                                > and MENU brings you back out to the beginning menu. I'll get you a
                                > screenshot of it tomorrow.

                                That would be great!

                                Two more things, since MONitor is different: could you also take a picture of
                                GRAPHIC mode after it starts (with the palette below) so I can see how
                                colour selection works, and then press MOD twice to turn on sprites and take
                                a picture of that? I want to see how the sprite colour and palette colour
                                selection differs.

                                That's all the MONitor does in the Pyuuta and Tutors, too, except that it
                                offers GBASIC specific commands as well and you type them in. Your report
                                suggests that the Jr doesn't have GBASIC, and frankly, I can't say I'm
                                surprised.

                                It would be interesting to find out if saved images/GBASIC programs from a
                                Tutor or Pyuuta could work (at least the image and sprite forks) on a Jr.,
                                but that'll have to wait until we find one with a cassette port. -_-

                                Again, thanks so much. When I collect all of this, I will post them on the
                                Little Orphan site so at least there can be a moderately comprehensive Jr
                                entry until I get one of my own. *rubs hands*

                                --
                                ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
                                Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
                                -- Proudly running on the Apple Network Server 500/200 ------------------------
                              • haohmaruus
                                Here s GRAPHIC at start up: http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutagraph1.jpg And here it is after pressing mode twice:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 9, 2005
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                                  Here's GRAPHIC at start up:

                                  http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutagraph1.jpg

                                  And here it is after pressing mode twice:

                                  http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutagraph2.jpg
                                • Cameron Kaiser
                                  ... Interesting. What happens with the SEL and REV business -- what does it seem to do (in either mode)? When it says press [1] to fill, what is it
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 9, 2005
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                                    > Here's GRAPHIC at start up:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutagraph1.jpg
                                    >
                                    > And here it is after pressing mode twice:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutagraph2.jpg

                                    Interesting. What happens with the "SEL" and "REV" business -- what does it
                                    seem to do (in either mode)? When it says "press [1] to fill," what is it
                                    filling in?

                                    --
                                    ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
                                    Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
                                    -- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "Live and Let Die" ---------------------------------
                                  • haohmaruus
                                    I ll try those out when I get home from work and let you know. Anything else? Do any of the Pyuuta/Tutor emulators support the Pyuuta Jr? Because I do have an
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 10, 2005
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                                      I'll try those out when I get home from work and let you know.
                                      Anything else? Do any of the Pyuuta/Tutor emulators support the Pyuuta
                                      Jr? Because I do have an EPROM reader and I *might* be willing to risk
                                      desoldering the ROM from the thing and dumping it. But only after I've
                                      had the thing for a few months and thoroughly enjoyed all the games,
                                      in case I end up screwing it up.


                                      Also, I'll keep an eye open for another Pyuuta Jr. If I see one, I'll
                                      let you know. Do you have some price limit in mind? The boxed ones
                                      seem to go for way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than the
                                      loose ones.
                                    • Cameron Kaiser
                                      ... Absolutely -- that was why I was very antsy about desoldering the ROMs out of my Pyuuta. (The Pyuuta II has the same ROMs as the American Tutor,
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Aug 10, 2005
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                                        > I'll try those out when I get home from work and let you know.
                                        > Anything else? Do any of the Pyuuta/Tutor emulators support the Pyuuta
                                        > Jr? Because I do have an EPROM reader and I *might* be willing to risk
                                        > desoldering the ROM from the thing and dumping it. But only after I've
                                        > had the thing for a few months and thoroughly enjoyed all the games,
                                        > in case I end up screwing it up.

                                        Absolutely -- that was why I was very antsy about desoldering the ROMs
                                        out of my Pyuuta. (The Pyuuta II has the same ROMs as the American Tutor,
                                        fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view.)

                                        The graphic mode just looks so much different that I'm trying to figure out
                                        how it works. When you're able to get that screenshot of MONitor mode, that
                                        would complete the photography I think :)

                                        No emulator supports the Jr, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Although
                                        the CLA is different, the base architecture should be compatible enough to
                                        allow the ROM to boot. It might not work right in a Tomy Tutor emulator if
                                        a cartridge were present, but it should still come up into GRAPHIC mode if
                                        one were not.

                                        > Also, I'll keep an eye open for another Pyuuta Jr. If I see one, I'll
                                        > let you know. Do you have some price limit in mind? The boxed ones
                                        > seem to go for way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than the
                                        > loose ones.

                                        I imagine so -_- at this point, I'd be happy to get *any* unit. I'm very
                                        flexible about prices and I can draw up international money orders in yen
                                        (my Pyuuta and Ultimax were Japanese imports from Aki), so I've done
                                        these kinds of things before. I just need a lead on one ...

                                        Thanks so much for entertaining my little fandom seizure on this. :)

                                        --
                                        ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
                                        Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@...
                                        -- If you're not very clever, you should be conciliatory. -- Benjamin Disraeli
                                      • haohmaruus
                                        Okie doke, here s a picture of the MONITOR: http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutamon.jpg I ll try out those commands you were asking about tomorrow.
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Aug 10, 2005
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                                          Okie doke, here's a picture of the MONITOR:

                                          http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/pyuutamon.jpg

                                          I'll try out those commands you were asking about tomorrow.
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