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[toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated

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  • Thomas Strandenaes
    I ll probably leave TOAD because of this feature . I would prefer to pay for it, instead of being left in the dust like that - it happened to me the other
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 31, 1998
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      I'll probably leave 'TOAD' because of this 'feature'. I would prefer to pay
      for it, instead of being left in the dust like that - it happened to me the
      other day, and I had to use SQL Plus *sigh*. Really frustrating. I accept
      that toadman eventually wants to go commercial with the program (which is
      REALLY good, and why the heck should he NOT get some sort of payment for his
      effors?!), and that the timeout feature will be a good way force people into
      using the commercial version. But *please* make a decision on this and offer
      a version that will NOT time out. I really love 'TOAD' and would hate to
      leave it behind, but the 'time out bomb' feature is really unacceptable.

      Thanks again to toadman for creating a wonderful Oracle-companion and
      offering it for free!

      --
      Thomas Strandenaes
      University of Tromsoe
      NORWAY

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    • Paul Durdin
      Hi all, ... This is bizare - it has cost me dearly today; i have to go home, download toad, return to work - cost UKP - lots!! I dosnt even warn you ahead of
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 1, 1998
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        Hi all,
        >
        > Did you know that your TOAD might eventually time out?!
        >
        > I was not aware that TOAD had a built-in timeout until last night after
        > midnight (incidentially the start of a new month) when I got the message
        > "Your version is very old, download a new one" and TOAD refused to start.
        >
        > This becomes a real problem if you're running NT and don't have the rights
        > to backdate the clock (which works). And even though the TOAD code is
        > amazingly small and compact, downloading it via a mobile phone or through a
        > hotel switchboard can be trying.
        >
        > SO BE SURE TO UPDATE YOUR TOAD BEFORE LEAVING FOR AN ASSIGNMENT!
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > Sten Vesterli
        > TPI Systementwicklung AG
        > sev@...
        >
        >
        > ______________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
        > at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
        >
        >
        This is bizare - it has cost me dearly today; i have to go home, download toad, return to work - cost UKP - lots!! I dosnt even warn you ahead of time!!!!

        Paul Durdin
        Taradata Ltd
        PaulDurdin@...


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      • Thomas Strandenaes
        Oh great, this was just the reponse I was hoping for! But let the records show that my comments are not the ego-trip criticism that Ken Komoto tries to make
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 1, 1998
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          Oh great, this was just the reponse I was hoping for!

          But let the records show that my comments are not the ego-trip criticism
          that Ken Komoto tries to make it look like - it is my sincere view that the
          time out feature makes it difficult to depend on TOAD. If toadman decided to
          take a long vacation (or worse), our days with the frog would be numbered. I
          think this is a unneccesary 'feature'. But I accept his decisions on this,
          and I'm really sorry if it looks like empty-headed 'whining'. If I could, I
          would devote parts of my spare time contributing to the TOAD project, more
          than by participating on this list and helping others out (which I actually
          try to do, believe it or not).

          Have a nice day.

          With regards,

          --
          Thomas Strandenaes
          Computing centre
          University of Tromsoe
          NORWAY

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        • Andrew Appleton
          Hello Thomas, Well, that would be one way to view Jim s motives for including this feature. However, I still prefer to believe that this feature is included to
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 1, 1998
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            Hello Thomas,

            Well, that would be one way to view Jim's motives for including this
            feature. However, I still prefer to believe that this feature is included to
            prevent support nightmares from people still using old versions of Toad
            which have known bugs and problems. Why should he continue to support old
            versions, when the level of support he gives to his, *NON-COMMERCIAL*,
            *NON-PROFIT* application is a very high, professional level?

            I would ask you to rethink dropping TOAD because of this feature. The
            responsibility is yours to download the latest version. I keep my version
            within at least three days of the latest version at most times. Admittedly
            it is sometimes difficult to do, especially when I forget to update the
            version on my laptop and take it out on the road. But, for goodness sakes,
            the zip file is only about 1mb or so, and I can nearly always get to
            somewhere where I can download a copy, or have a colleague in the office
            send me the latest version if I'm on the road...


            Andrew Appleton
            Programmer/Analyst
            Hollywood Ent.


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Thomas Strandenaes [mailto:thomas.strandenaes@...]
            > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 1998 4:04 AM
            > To: Paul Durdin; toad@egroups.com
            > Subject: [toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated
            >
            >
            > I'll probably leave 'TOAD' because of this 'feature'. I would
            > prefer to pay
            > for it, instead of being left in the dust like that - it happened
            > to me the
            > other day, and I had to use SQL Plus *sigh*. Really frustrating. I accept
            > that toadman eventually wants to go commercial with the program (which is
            > REALLY good, and why the heck should he NOT get some sort of
            > payment for his
            > effors?!), and that the timeout feature will be a good way force
            > people into
            > using the commercial version. But *please* make a decision on
            > this and offer
            > a version that will NOT time out. I really love 'TOAD' and would hate to
            > leave it behind, but the 'time out bomb' feature is really unacceptable.
            >
            > Thanks again to toadman for creating a wonderful Oracle-companion and
            > offering it for free!
            >
            > --
            > Thomas Strandenaes
            > University of Tromsoe
            > NORWAY
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            > Earn free airline tickets WITH DOUBLE Rew@rds points.
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            >
            >

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          • Marc Thompson
            I agree with Andrew. The time-out feature prevents TOAD users from complaining about bugs in TOAD to either the TOAD mailing list or to the toadman himself,
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 1, 1998
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              I agree with Andrew. The time-out feature prevents TOAD users from
              complaining about bugs in TOAD to either the TOAD mailing list or to the
              toadman himself, about things that may have already been fixed. It must be
              extremely difficult (and tedious) for the toadman to receive dozens of bug
              reports and enhancement request, only for him to have to turn around and
              reply 'Download the latest version' over and over.
              Granted, there may be the requirement for a warning, say, 10 days before
              it expires, but the concept of the time-out itself provides more benefits to
              the support of the product.

              Marc.


              Andrew Appleton wrote:

              > Well, that would be one way to view Jim's motives for including this
              > feature. However, I still prefer to believe that this feature is included to
              > prevent support nightmares from people still using old versions of Toad
              > which have known bugs and problems. Why should he continue to support old
              > versions, when the level of support he gives to his, *NON-COMMERCIAL*,
              > *NON-PROFIT* application is a very high, professional level?
              >
              > Andrew Appleton
              > Programmer/Analyst
              > Hollywood Ent.
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Thomas Strandenaes [mailto:thomas.strandenaes@...]
              > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 1998 4:04 AM
              > > To: Paul Durdin; toad@egroups.com
              > > Subject: [toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated
              > >
              > >
              > > I'll probably leave 'TOAD' because of this 'feature'. I would
              > > prefer to pay
              > >
              > > --
              > > Thomas Strandenaes
              > > University of Tromsoe
              > > NORWAY
              >

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            • Stephan Born
              ... But it is always a little bit risky to update TOAD. Everey now and then there are bugs in the new version (the last thing i know about is the missing of
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                Andrew Appleton wrote:

                > Hello Thomas,
                >
                > Well, that would be one [...]

                > I would ask you to rethink dropping TOAD because of this feature. The
                > responsibility is yours to download the latest version. I keep my
                > version
                > within at least three days of the latest version at most times.
                > Admittedly
                > it is sometimes difficult to do, especially when I forget to update
                > the
                > version on my laptop and take it out on the road. But, for goodness
                > sakes,
                > the zip file is only about 1mb or so, and I can nearly always get to
                > somewhere where I can download a copy, or have a colleague in the
                > office
                > send me the latest version if I'm on the road...
                >

                But it is always a little bit risky to update TOAD. Everey now and then
                there are bugs in the new version (the last thing i know about is the
                missing
                of function names). I like to work with THE SAME version of toad during
                a project. I know, that all features of TOAD functioning in this
                version.
                These projects can take a long time. After that project I can get a new
                version
                of TOAD and check all features I need. But I don't like it to change the
                version
                within a project.

                I (and i suppose many of the TOAD-users) would pay for a version which
                does not time-out.

                Stephan Born

                --
                ---------------------------------------------------------------
                Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Stephan Born | "beusen" Systeme GmbH
                fon: +49 30 549932-17 | Landsberger Allee 392
                fax: +49 30 549932-21 | 12681 Berlin
                mailto:stephan.born@... | Germany
                ---------------------------------------------------------------


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              • Scott.Taylor@msj.com.au
                Mallesons Stephen Jaques Solicitors Confidential communication My 2c worth is that it is the Toadman s product (all hail), he is giving it away for free for
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                  Mallesons Stephen Jaques Solicitors
                  Confidential communication

                  My 2c worth is that it is the Toadman's product (all hail), he is giving it
                  away for free for the benefit of people like myself (and countless others),
                  and if he chooses to put a time limit on the product for support purposes,
                  so be it. If you don't like it, go back to sql+.

                  The idea of having people using the latest copy and having an active
                  mailing list such as this is to have the best product available at this
                  point in time. I'm sure no one can complain on the turn-around of bug
                  fixes...

                  That feels better.


                  Regards,
                  SJT









                  From: Stephan Born <Stephan.Born@...>
                  To: toad@...
                  Date: 02/11/98 07:19:42 PM
                  Subject: [toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated





                  Andrew Appleton wrote:

                  > Hello Thomas,
                  >
                  > Well, that would be one [...]

                  > I would ask you to rethink dropping TOAD because of this feature. The
                  > responsibility is yours to download the latest version. I keep my
                  > version
                  > within at least three days of the latest version at most times.
                  > Admittedly
                  > it is sometimes difficult to do, especially when I forget to update
                  > the
                  > version on my laptop and take it out on the road. But, for goodness
                  > sakes,
                  > the zip file is only about 1mb or so, and I can nearly always get to
                  > somewhere where I can download a copy, or have a colleague in the
                  > office
                  > send me the latest version if I'm on the road...
                  >

                  But it is always a little bit risky to update TOAD. Everey now and then
                  there are bugs in the new version (the last thing i know about is the
                  missing
                  of function names). I like to work with THE SAME version of toad during
                  a project. I know, that all features of TOAD functioning in this
                  version.
                  These projects can take a long time. After that project I can get a new
                  version
                  of TOAD and check all features I need. But I don't like it to change the
                  version
                  within a project.

                  I (and i suppose many of the TOAD-users) would pay for a version which
                  does not time-out.

                  Stephan Born

                  --
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Stephan Born | "beusen" Systeme GmbH
                  fon: +49 30 549932-17 | Landsberger Allee 392
                  fax: +49 30 549932-21 | 12681 Berlin
                  mailto:stephan.born@... | Germany
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------


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                • vanj
                  Or go spend thousands on a Commercial development tool, which you don t have to keep up to date. And you will find that most Commercial vendors don t want
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                    Or go spend thousands on a 'Commercial' development tool, which you don't have
                    to keep up to date. And you will find that most 'Commercial' vendors don't want
                    to know unless you are running the latest release.

                    Scott.Taylor@... wrote:
                    ----Cut -----

                    > If you don't like it, go back to sql+.

                    ----Cut -----

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                  • Ken Komoto
                    I find it extremely presumptuous that so many folks are complaining about an outstanding tool that they get for free! And I find it even more ridiculous that
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                      I find it extremely presumptuous that so many folks are complaining about an
                      outstanding tool that they get for free! And I find it even more ridiculous
                      that they threaten to abandon TOAD if their groundless whinings aren't catered
                      to. If they choose to leave, it's their loss! Let 'em go! Toadman has done
                      and is doing his best.

                      To those of you complaining, Get a Life! and go BUY a tool from someone who
                      gets
                      PAID to listen to your whining...
                      ============================================================
                      Kenneth Komoto Email: kgkomoto@...
                      Information Rsrcs-Rsrch Park Phone: (530)757-8780
                      University of California, Davis Fax : (530)757-8778
                      Davis, Ca 95616
                      ______________________________________________________________________
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                    • Smith, Ron
                      Perhaps it would help if everyone would stop talking about the problem and how it should be handled. Keep emails limited to bugs found on the CURRENT release.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                        Perhaps it would help if everyone would stop talking about the problem and
                        how it should be handled. Keep emails limited to bugs found on the CURRENT
                        release.

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Ken Komoto [SMTP:kgkomoto@...]
                        > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 3:53 PM
                        > To: toad@egroups.com
                        > Subject: [toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated
                        >
                        > I find it extremely presumptuous that so many folks are complaining about
                        > an
                        > outstanding tool that they get for free! And I find it even more
                        > ridiculous
                        > that they threaten to abandon TOAD if their groundless whinings aren't
                        > catered
                        > to. If they choose to leave, it's their loss! Let 'em go! Toadman has
                        > done
                        > and is doing his best.
                        >
                        > To those of you complaining, Get a Life! and go BUY a tool from someone
                        > who
                        > gets
                        > PAID to listen to your whining...
                        > ============================================================
                        > Kenneth Komoto Email: kgkomoto@...
                        > Information Rsrcs-Rsrch Park Phone: (530)757-8780
                        > University of California, Davis Fax : (530)757-8778
                        > Davis, Ca 95616
                        > ______________________________________________________________________
                        > No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great intro rate for Internet users!
                        > NextCard Internet VISA -- Apply online now!
                        > http://ads.egroups.com/click/61/1/nextcard
                        >
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                      • Phil Riker
                        Hear! Hear! You can say that again!!! ... Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                          Hear! Hear!
                          You can say that again!!!

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                        • Steve.Stocker@cnalife.com
                          I m I the only one tired of this subject? Let s get on with our lives ... From: Thomas Strandenaes [SMTP:thomas.strandenaes@adm.uit.no] Sent: Sunday, November
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                            I'm I the only one tired of this subject? Let's get on with our lives

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Thomas Strandenaes [SMTP:thomas.strandenaes@...]
                            Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 4:55 PM
                            To: Ken Komoto; toad@egroups.com
                            Subject: [toad] Re: WARNING: Keep your toad updated

                            Oh great, this was just the reponse I was hoping for!

                            But let the records show that my comments are not the ego-trip
                            criticism
                            that Ken Komoto tries to make it look like - it is my sincere view
                            that the
                            time out feature makes it difficult to depend on TOAD. If toadman
                            decided to
                            take a long vacation (or worse), our days with the frog would be
                            numbered. I
                            think this is a unneccesary 'feature'. But I accept his decisions on
                            this,
                            and I'm really sorry if it looks like empty-headed 'whining'. If I
                            could, I
                            would devote parts of my spare time contributing to the TOAD
                            project, more
                            than by participating on this list and helping others out (which I
                            actually
                            try to do, believe it or not).

                            Have a nice day.

                            With regards,

                            --
                            Thomas Strandenaes
                            Computing centre
                            University of Tromsoe
                            NORWAY


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                          • toadman
                            BFG ... Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                              BFG

                              > I find it extremely presumptuous that so many folks are complaining about an
                              > outstanding tool that they get for free! And I find it even more ridiculous
                              > that they threaten to abandon TOAD if their groundless whinings aren't catered
                              > to. If they choose to leave, it's their loss! Let 'em go! Toadman has done
                              > and is doing his best.
                              >
                              > To those of you complaining, Get a Life! and go BUY a tool from someone who
                              > gets
                              > PAID to listen to your whining...
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                            • James Medlin
                              I thought I was missing something, because Paul did not send an original email, he was replying to someone else s email, but I couldn t find the original email
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 2, 1998
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                                I thought I was missing something, because Paul did not send an original email, he was replying to someone else's email, but I couldn't find the original
                                email in my folder - at first. Turns out, the original email was sent over a month ago! (It was at that time that Toadman added the nag screens to the time
                                out feature.) If Paul was a member of the mailing list and got the original email, then he should have also known about the time-out feature - and known that
                                TOAD does now warn you ahead of time.

                                Or at least, Toadman has told us that it will. Personally, I don't think I've had a version much over a week old since I started using TOAD, and usually only
                                a day or two. As far as TOAD's stability, there are occasional hiccups, er, I mean ribbits, between versions, but they're usually fixed the next day (if not
                                sooner) by the Toadman. In the time that I've been using TOAD, I can only remember one time that a new version of TOAD flopped, and that was only on NT.
                                Toadman removed the version from the web site and had a fixed version out within hours (and if I remember correctly, took a day off from work to fix it (cost
                                to Toadman - lots!!!)).

                                I'm anxiously awaiting the upcoming announcement, though I have a feeling I know what it will generally be. And the sad thing is, it sounds like Toadman's
                                decision was not prompted by any sense of greed (though he deserves every cent he may make from TOAD), but because we the users wouldn't 'play nice', leave
                                him alone to make improvements, and simply appreciate his tool and support for what it is: free. (Myself included - I've made my share of requests of the
                                last 6 months or so too...)

                                Whatever the announcement, I thank Toadman for lending us the use of his program, and for making my job immensely easier.

                                James Medlin



                                Paul Durdin wrote:

                                > This is bizare - it has cost me dearly today; i have to go home, download toad, return to work - cost UKP - lots!! I dosnt even warn you ahead of time!!!!
                                >
                                > Paul Durdin
                                > Taradata Ltd
                                > PaulDurdin@...
                                >

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