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[toad] Quest Pricing

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  • Darren_Hayduk@legacytech.com
    I have to say that I m a bit surprised at Quest s arrangement: I get to license TOAD for $249, but the product still EXPIRES AFTER ONE YEAR! I don t know of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 1, 1999
      I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at Quest's arrangement: I get to
      'license' TOAD for $249, but the product still EXPIRES AFTER ONE YEAR! I
      don't know of any other product where the product itself expires (sure,
      support contracts are for a fixed period of time, but the product
      itself?!?!?!)

      Now sure, I'll probably want continued access to bug fixes, enhancements,
      etc. But you don't always continue to upgrade for every version. Often
      times a particular version meets a need and no point messing with it. How
      many people are upgrading to Win98 or Office97 - just because? It should be
      the user's choice to spend the $$ for upgrades. But here, I have to - or my
      purchase stops working.

      Comments...

      Darren



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    • critter manager
      Although I ve only been using Toad for a few months, I JUMPED at the chance to purchase the product when the Quest version was finally released. Maybe I m
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 3, 1999
        Although I've only been using Toad for a few months, I JUMPED at the
        chance to purchase the product when the Quest version was finally
        released. Maybe I'm doing something odd with Toad that most of
        you haven't discovered yet, but I found immediately that Toad
        shaved hours from my work load every week. I've used or owned all
        of the other tools and -- debugging aside -- there is no tool in my
        toolbox that I use more than Toad. Not from Platinum; not from
        Quest; not from Embarcadero. When the product went commercial, I
        thought: Why not, if I can be legit for a paltry $250.

        So what exactly have I missed as a johny-come-lately? I mean,
        I've read some of the archives for this group scanning for tips
        and some of you guys have given the author pure shit over issues
        such as the expiration date or even going commercial. Yet once I had
        used the tool for a few days, I was wondering what sort of a schmuck
        wasn't charging 1K or more for the thing; yet there were many of you
        who whined about it not being free any longer (I would argue that 250
        is barely shareware pricing). Some cried for his source code while
        others cried for his entire head.

        So I ask again, what have I missed. I guess the author must have
        REALLY pissed on someone at some point to have brought this level of
        crap down upon himself although everything I read in the archives
        suggests the opposite. I only found Toad because some extraordinary
        nut in another list was bitching and moaning about Toad going
        commercial. I would say that Toad didn't become legit until it
        became commercial as most responsible firms wouldn't allow
        non-registered shareware or unsupported freeware. So what exactly
        did he do? How far back do I have to read in the list?

        Personally, I think they should stop distributing the free product
        altogether and just rely on a 30 day trial. It's abundantly clear
        that the people who continue to use it aren't deserving. This is
        the Oracle community afterall, if you can afford to use Oracle, you
        can afford to purchase lousy $250/seat tools. Lastly, as a
        developer, I do NOT want free tools because I don't want to work for
        free. Developers should be the first in line to pay for software or
        to renew annual licenses.

        So much for the solicited comments....


        As a very happy user of the "new and improved Toad", I can tell you that
        there is no sort of expiration in MY registered version whatsoever.
        What dates did you try in your copy? I've tried 2000, 01, 10, 30 and
        others. It just keeps on ticking.

        John


        > That's just crazy; in fact it's a damn good reason for *not* buying
        Toad.
        > If you buy software you expect it to continue working indefinitely,
        although
        > upgrade policies vary considerably from one supplier to another. This
        is
        > the first instance I have heard of where the software stops working if
        you
        > don't continue to pay out.
        >
        >> I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at Quest's arrangement: I get
        to
        >> 'license' TOAD for $249, but the product still EXPIRES AFTER ONE
        YEAR! I
        >> don't know of any other product where the product itself expires
        (sure,
        >> support contracts are for a fixed period of time, but the product
        >> itself?!?!?!)



        ______________________________________________________

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      • toadman
        ... Can I guess who that was? ... I would agree that any TOAD user could easily afford the Quest price, but I would question whether some of them could get the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 3, 1999
          > suggests the opposite. I only found Toad because some extraordinary
          > nut in another list was bitching and moaning about Toad going
          > commercial.

          Can I guess who that was?

          > This is
          > the Oracle community afterall, if you can afford to use Oracle, you
          > can afford to purchase lousy $250/seat tools.

          I would agree that any TOAD user could easily afford the Quest price,
          but I would question whether some of them could get the request through
          the budget channels within a 30 day eval period. Have your ever worked
          for a non-profit or university?

          > Lastly, as a
          > developer, I do NOT want free tools because I don't want to work for
          > free. Developers should be the first in line to pay for software or
          > to renew annual licenses.

          Yet they are typically the last. :)

          > As a very happy user of the "new and improved Toad", I can tell you that
          > there is no sort of expiration in MY registered version whatsoever.
          > What dates did you try in your copy? I've tried 2000, 01, 10, 30 and
          > others. It just keeps on ticking.

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        • Darren_Hayduk@legacytech.com
          ... I agree 100% ... I think that none of us have any right to say anything about Toadman s decisions with the product. I for one was very happy to see him
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 1999
            Oracle_man said:
            > I found immediately that Toad shaved hours from
            > my work load every week.

            I agree 100%

            > and some of you guys have given the author pure shit over issues
            > such as the expiration date or even going commercial.
            I think that none of us have any right to say anything about Toadman's
            decisions with the product. I for one was very happy to see him
            (financially) rewarded for his hard work.

            > Developers should be the first in line to pay for software
            > or to renew annual licenses.
            I said:
            >> but the product still EXPIRES AFTER ONE YEAR! I don't know
            >> of any other product where the product itself expires (sure,
            >> support contracts are for a fixed period of time, but the product
            >> itself?!?!?!)

            I have no problem paying for software. But it should be my decision to
            continue to pay for support as the years go on, or use the product as-is.


            Now, from your posting and another from the Toadman, I'm getting the
            impression that the commercial (paid-for) version doesn't expire. If so,
            then I apologize for starting the whole thread. However, when I read: (from
            the Quest web site)

            "Annual license eliminates current 60-day expiration. Purchase of
            an annual license removes the 60-day timeout and entitles the
            purchaser to one full year of use."

            This sure sounds like I am only entitled to use the the purchased software
            for one year. After that, I would be violating the license if I continued
            to use it. I would have to pay $149 to extend the license for another year.
            The Quest salesperson also confirmed this.

            Just to reiterate, I'm not upset about having to now pay for Toad (and you
            are correct - $249 is a great price for a tool of this caliber). I'm just
            questioning the practice of pay for a tool and then only being able to use
            it for a year...

            Darren



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          • David Schmoldt
            Exactly. TOAD is very popular at work. I don t know of anyone who doesn t think it s worth the price. At the same time, our budget is set until at least
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 3, 1999
              Exactly. TOAD is very popular at work. I don't know of anyone who
              doesn't think it's worth the price. At the same time, our budget is set
              until at least July 1999, and more realistically until several months
              after that. In other words, if you don't budget for the item a year in
              advance, you're SOL.

              We just purchased SQL Navigator 2 months ago, and planning for that goes
              back at least a year.

              So I think toadman/Quest have a very realistic attitude towards how the
              business world works. <sigh>

              Dave

              toadman wrote:

              > > This is
              > > the Oracle community afterall, if you can afford to use Oracle, you
              > > can afford to purchase lousy $250/seat tools.
              >
              > I would agree that any TOAD user could easily afford the Quest price,
              > but I would question whether some of them could get the request through
              > the budget channels within a 30 day eval period. Have your ever worked
              > for a non-profit or university?
              >
              > > Lastly, as a
              > > developer, I do NOT want free tools because I don't want to work for
              > > free. Developers should be the first in line to pay for software or
              > > to renew annual licenses.
              >
              > Yet they are typically the last. :)
              >

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            • toadman
              ... Yeah, but that s a standard annual license agreement. If you don t opt for future annual licenses, you loose support and the ability to download updates.
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 4, 1999
                Darren_Hayduk@... wrote:
                >
                > So, there is no expiration coded into Toad? That's good to here, but
                > doesn't the terms of the license say that I need to stop using it after a
                > year?

                Yeah, but that's a standard annual license agreement. If you don't opt
                for future annual licenses, you loose support and the ability to
                download updates. Although given the current web release mechanism,
                there would be no way to prevent the downloads.

                But that's not the same as saying that TOAD expires after a year, which
                it does not do. I don't know of any software with an annual license
                agreement that ceases to work once you've paid for it.



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