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Re: [tmboptical] Re: Monocentric eyepiece eye relief?

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  • Markus Ludes
    the eyepieces will be physical like a Pentax SMC Ortho with 1.25 barrel Markus ... From: ronbee77 To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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      the eyepieces will be physical like a Pentax SMC Ortho with 1.25" barrel

      Markus
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ronbee77 <ronby@...>
      To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:30 AM
      Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Monocentric eyepiece eye relief?


      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
      <TMBoptical@a...> wrote:
      >
      > 4mm = 3.2mm
      > 6mm = 4.8mm
      > 8mm = 6.4mm
      > 10mm = 8.0mm
      >
      > The field of view is 30 degrees. This will give the observer
      > a feeling of greater eyerelief than the numbers above. But
      > again, we are not going to compromise performance, for a large
      > field or 20mm of eyerelief. There are plenty of eyepieces
      > on the market that achieve that, but they lack the critical
      > contrast of a superior designed and manufactured Monocentric
      > eyepiece. I personally have no trouble using the Zeiss Abbe
      > 4mm orthoscopic.
      >
      > Thomas Back

      Oh no, no 5mm?

      Will the eyepiece physically be like "cone-like" where the exit pupil
      goes like the UO Ortho? I understand this physical design help
      greatly with short eye relief?

      Thanks,
      Ron B[ee]



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    • Mike Fowler <popocatept@aol.com>
      - ... snip ... snip, snip ... snip ... I too think that a 5 piece set with a 5mm is needed. If finances or other reasons preclude it now, can it be added
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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        -
        > <TMBoptical@a...> wrote:
        > >
        snip
        > > 4mm = 3.2mm
        > > 6mm = 4.8mm
        > > 8mm = 6.4mm
        > > 10mm = 8.0mm
        snip, snip
        > > Thomas Back
        >
        > Oh no, no 5mm?
        snip
        > Thanks,
        > Ron B[ee]

        I too think that a 5 piece set with a 5mm is needed. If finances or
        other reasons preclude it now, can it be added later?

        Mike Fowler
        Chicago
      • tmboptical <TMBoptical@aol.com>
        ... BTW Ron, thanks for the kind words on s.a.a. ... Mike, Ron and everyone else interested in the eyepieces, If the TMB Mono eyepiece project is successful,
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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          --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Fowler <popocatept@a...>"
          <popocatept@a...> wrote:
          > > Oh no, no 5mm?
          > snip
          > > Thanks,
          > > Ron B[ee]

          BTW Ron, thanks for the kind words on s.a.a.

          > I too think that a 5 piece set with a 5mm is needed. If
          > finances or other reasons preclude it now, can it be added
          > later?
          >
          > Mike Fowler
          > Chicago

          Mike, Ron and everyone else interested in the eyepieces,

          If the TMB Mono eyepiece project is successful, I'm sure we will
          be able to add a 5mm to the set. Time will tell. Thanks for your
          input, and believe me, I want a 5mm just as much as you guys do!

          On the subject of the TMB Monocentrics, I have received so many
          e-mail's to be put on the contact list, I simply do not have the
          time to answer in detail, every e-mail. Rest assured that each
          person that contacted me will definitely be on the list. Please
          don't be offended if I reply to each person with a form letter
          acknowledging that you are on the list. Thank you.

          Thomas Back
        • phbjr@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/1/03 7:22:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, TMBoptical@aol.com writes:
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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            In a message dated 3/1/03 7:22:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            TMBoptical@... writes:

            << On the subject of the TMB Monocentrics, I have received so many
            e-mail's to be put on the contact list, I simply do not have the
            time to answer in detail, every e-mail.

            Thomas,

            The list already includes everyone who answered in the affirmative to
            the poll taken back in December/January, correct?

            PaulB



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • izar21093 <izar@juno.com>
            Senior moment here. I do not know if I am on the eyepiece list or not. If not, please include my name. Bill G
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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              Senior moment here. I do not know if I am on the eyepiece list or not.

              If not, please include my name.

              Bill G
              *****


              --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
              <TMBoptical@a...> wrote:
              > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Fowler <popocatept@a...>"
              > <popocatept@a...> wrote:
              > > > Oh no, no 5mm?
              > > snip
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Ron B[ee]
              >
              > BTW Ron, thanks for the kind words on s.a.a.
              >
              > > I too think that a 5 piece set with a 5mm is needed. If
              > > finances or other reasons preclude it now, can it be added
              > > later?
              > >
              > > Mike Fowler
              > > Chicago
              >
              > Mike, Ron and everyone else interested in the eyepieces,
              >
              > If the TMB Mono eyepiece project is successful, I'm sure we will
              > be able to add a 5mm to the set. Time will tell. Thanks for your
              > input, and believe me, I want a 5mm just as much as you guys do!
              >
              > On the subject of the TMB Monocentrics, I have received so many
              > e-mail's to be put on the contact list, I simply do not have the
              > time to answer in detail, every e-mail. Rest assured that each
              > person that contacted me will definitely be on the list. Please
              > don't be offended if I reply to each person with a form letter
              > acknowledging that you are on the list. Thank you.
              >
              > Thomas Back
            • Larry Geary
              ... No. That poll only counted heads. There was no way to capture names or email addresses. --Larry
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                > Thomas,
                >
                > The list already includes everyone who answered in the
                > affirmative to
                > the poll taken back in December/January, correct?
                >
                > PaulB


                No. That poll only counted heads. There was no way to capture names or email
                addresses.

                --Larry
              • cjamescook
                ... ... Okay, I ll bite on this one: On one hand, exotic glasses can be hundreds of dollars per kilo. This is expensive if you are building a primary
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 17, 2003
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                  > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Tony White <twhite@d...>"
                  > <twhite@d...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A while back (message 6173) Tom said that the Steinheil
                  > > monocentric's eye relief ratio was about .85. Assuming his
                  > > designs won't vary from that, I get:

                  <snip>

                  > > I assume Markus or Tom will correct me if I'm wrong. :)

                  --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
                  <TMBoptical@a...> replied:

                  > That was true with my first design that had a glass that was too
                  > expensive to use in production.

                  Okay, I'll bite on this one:
                  On one hand, exotic glasses can be hundreds of dollars per kilo. This
                  is expensive if you are building a primary objective. But here we are
                  talking about eyepieces, where the lenses are fractions of an ounce
                  (excuse the mixed units).

                  So for us armchair opticians, living vicariously through your
                  experiences and reports, how expensive can that be?

                  Take this as a general question if you wish: Just how expensive do
                  those exotic glasses get, generally speaking?

                  Cheers!
                  -Jim Cook
                  Bolton, Massachusetts, USA
                • Markus Ludes
                  Jim, excotic glas is not only way more expensive, its also a bit more difficult to polish. More info Tom Back can get to you best wishes Markus ... From:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 17, 2003
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                    Jim, excotic glas is not only way more expensive, its also a bit more difficult to polish. More info Tom Back can get to you

                    best wishes
                    Markus
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: cjamescook
                    To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:31 PM
                    Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Monocentric eyepiece eye relief?



                    > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Tony White <twhite@d...>"
                    > <twhite@d...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > A while back (message 6173) Tom said that the Steinheil
                    > > monocentric's eye relief ratio was about .85. Assuming his
                    > > designs won't vary from that, I get:

                    <snip>

                    > > I assume Markus or Tom will correct me if I'm wrong. :)

                    --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
                    <TMBoptical@a...> replied:

                    > That was true with my first design that had a glass that was too
                    > expensive to use in production.

                    Okay, I'll bite on this one:
                    On one hand, exotic glasses can be hundreds of dollars per kilo. This
                    is expensive if you are building a primary objective. But here we are
                    talking about eyepieces, where the lenses are fractions of an ounce
                    (excuse the mixed units).

                    So for us armchair opticians, living vicariously through your
                    experiences and reports, how expensive can that be?

                    Take this as a general question if you wish: Just how expensive do
                    those exotic glasses get, generally speaking?

                    Cheers!
                    -Jim Cook
                    Bolton, Massachusetts, USA




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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • tmboptical
                    ... This ... are ... Jim, You will have to ask Markus for the exact pricing, but it would have raised the price of the eyepiece, and the glass was very
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 17, 2003
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                      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "cjamescook" <jimcook@a...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Tony White <twhite@d...>"
                      > > <twhite@d...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > A while back (message 6173) Tom said that the Steinheil
                      > > > monocentric's eye relief ratio was about .85. Assuming his
                      > > > designs won't vary from that, I get:
                      >
                      > <snip>
                      >
                      > > > I assume Markus or Tom will correct me if I'm wrong. :)
                      >
                      > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
                      > <TMBoptical@a...> replied:
                      >
                      > > That was true with my first design that had a glass that was too
                      > > expensive to use in production.
                      >
                      > Okay, I'll bite on this one:
                      > On one hand, exotic glasses can be hundreds of dollars per kilo.
                      This
                      > is expensive if you are building a primary objective. But here we
                      are
                      > talking about eyepieces, where the lenses are fractions of an ounce
                      > (excuse the mixed units).
                      >
                      > So for us armchair opticians, living vicariously through your
                      > experiences and reports, how expensive can that be?
                      >
                      > Take this as a general question if you wish: Just how expensive do
                      > those exotic glasses get, generally speaking?
                      >
                      > Cheers!
                      > -Jim Cook
                      > Bolton, Massachusetts, USA

                      Jim,

                      You will have to ask Markus for the exact pricing, but it would
                      have raised the price of the eyepiece, and the glass was very
                      difficult to work with, i.e., staining. The replacement glass
                      is still an high index glass, and no performance is lost. The
                      eye relief dropped from .85x to .80x, better than any ortho or
                      Plossl. And the prototype worked so well, that Markus was using
                      it with a ~40 degree field (no field stop), and it still had
                      good eyerelief for a 6mm eyepiece. Because the design is so sharp
                      out to a 40 AFOV, we have decided to increase the field from 30
                      degrees to 35 degrees, and the eyerelief will be even better
                      than what Markus experienced, at 40 degrees AFOV.

                      Thomas Back
                    • cjamescook
                      ... Clearly I only focused on the price of the glass and not the cost of working the glass. Obviously, I need to be more practical, thinking more like running
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 17, 2003
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                        > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical <TMBoptical@a...>"
                        > > <TMBoptical@a...> replied:
                        > >
                        > > > That was true with my first design that had a glass that was too
                        > > > expensive to use in production.
                        > >

                        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "cjamescook" <jimcook@a...>
                        replied:

                        > > So for us armchair opticians, living vicariously through your
                        > > experiences and reports, how expensive can that be?
                        > >
                        > > Take this as a general question if you wish: Just how expensive
                        > > do those exotic glasses get, generally speaking?

                        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@a...>
                        replied:

                        > You will have to ask Markus for the exact pricing, but it would
                        > have raised the price of the eyepiece, and the glass was very
                        > difficult to work with, i.e., staining. The replacement glass
                        > is still an high index glass, and no performance is lost. The
                        > eye relief dropped from .85x to .80x, better than any ortho or
                        > Plossl. And the prototype worked so well, that Markus was using
                        > it with a ~40 degree field (no field stop), and it still had
                        > good eyerelief for a 6mm eyepiece. Because the design is so sharp
                        > out to a 40 AFOV, we have decided to increase the field from 30
                        > degrees to 35 degrees, and the eyerelief will be even better
                        > than what Markus experienced, at 40 degrees AFOV.

                        Clearly I only focused on the price of the glass and not the cost of
                        working the glass. Obviously, I need to be more practical, thinking
                        more like running a business, and less of a purist.

                        Thanks for taking the time to answer.

                        -Jim
                      • phbjr@aol.com
                        In a message dated 4/17/03 5:20:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TMBoptical@aol.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 17, 2003
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                          In a message dated 4/17/03 5:20:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          TMBoptical@... writes:

                          << The eye relief dropped from .85x to .80x, better than any ortho or Plossl.

                          Is the "rule of thumb" for orthoscopics around 0.75x? (I'm basing
                          that on the stated eye relief of the Antares orthos). What is it for
                          Plossls?

                          Paul Bock



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