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new toy...

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  • dietmar hager
    hi folks, I wanna proudly present my brand new toy: it is a double refractor - a so called binoptic system. its specifications are: 2 pieces of 5 f/6 TMB
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 1 5:23 AM
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      hi folks,

      I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
      it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.

      its specifications are:
      2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
      on a alt/az fork tripod.

      I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
      sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
      what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up deals.

      Markus - you have my thanks!

      as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a full
      scale report on this item.

      here are some pics:

      http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm

      best greetings,

      Dietmar
    • Rob Willett
      Dietmar, Please, please, please do not post pictures like this. It s simply not fair on the rest of us struggling to afford a single 4 TMB whilst you have two
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 1 5:32 AM
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        Dietmar,

        Please, please, please do not post pictures like this.

        It's simply not fair on the rest of us struggling to afford a single
        4" TMB whilst you have two (2!!) of them as a pair of binoculars. :)

        Sigh, oh well back to work to try and earn some more money.

        Best of luck with them (he says enviously).

        Rob.

        On 1 Sep 2007, at 13:23, dietmar hager wrote:

        > hi folks,
        >
        > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
        > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
        >
        > its specifications are:
        > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
        > on a alt/az fork tripod.
        >
        > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
        > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
        > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up
        > deals.
        >
        > Markus - you have my thanks!
        >
        > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a full
        > scale report on this item.
        >
        > here are some pics:
        >
        > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
        >
        > best greetings,
        >
        > Dietmar
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Terry Tuggle
        Dietmar, Nice set of binoculars! The ultimate binoviewer! VBG Terry http://www.geocities.com/tlt284@sbcglobal.net/terryshuntofthemonth/index.htm _____ From:
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 1 5:53 AM
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          Dietmar,

          Nice set of binoculars! The ultimate binoviewer! VBG



          Terry

          http://www.geocities.com/tlt284@.../terryshuntofthemonth/index.htm




          _____

          From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of dietmar hager
          Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 7:24 AM
          To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [tmboptical] new toy...



          hi folks,

          I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
          it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.

          its specifications are:
          2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
          on a alt/az fork tripod.

          I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
          sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
          what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up deals.

          Markus - you have my thanks!

          as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a full
          scale report on this item.

          here are some pics:

          http://www.stargaze <http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm>
          r-observatory.com/binoptic.htm

          best greetings,

          Dietmar





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bradgregley10
          Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment! Greg. ... deals. ... full
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 1 7:30 AM
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            Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment!

            Greg.


            --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
            <dietmar.hager@...> wrote:
            >
            > hi folks,
            >
            > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
            > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
            >
            > its specifications are:
            > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
            > on a alt/az fork tripod.
            >
            > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
            > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
            > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up
            deals.
            >
            > Markus - you have my thanks!
            >
            > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a
            full
            > scale report on this item.
            >
            > here are some pics:
            >
            > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
            >
            > best greetings,
            >
            > Dietmar
            >
          • apm_telecopes
            you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers Teton, Mark Rieck in
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 1 10:09 AM
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              you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside , California


              we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far

              new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new ED douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year

              regards

              Markus Ludes, APM


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: bradgregley10
              To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:30 PM
              Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...


              Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment!

              Greg.

              --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
              <dietmar.hager@...> wrote:
              >
              > hi folks,
              >
              > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
              > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
              >
              > its specifications are:
              > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
              > on a alt/az fork tripod.
              >
              > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
              > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
              > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up
              deals.
              >
              > Markus - you have my thanks!
              >
              > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a
              full
              > scale report on this item.
              >
              > here are some pics:
              >
              > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
              >
              > best greetings,
              >
              > Dietmar
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tube Tim
              ... Hi Dietmar, Looks cool. This will be a lot of fun for terrestrial or celestial. I will be curious if the 3-D effect of a this Bino is more than the 3D
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 1 1:12 PM
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                >--- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
                ><dietmar.hager@...> wrote:
                >

                Hi Dietmar,

                Looks cool. This will be a lot of fun for terrestrial or celestial.

                I will be curious if the 3-D effect of a this Bino is more than the 3D
                effect in a binoviewer. I recall a couple years back at BFSP looking
                thru a pair of Nikon binoculars belonging to Harvey the 3D effect was
                like being there.

                That's a lot of grass to cut. :-)


                Tim


                > hi folks,
                >
                > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
                > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
                >
                > its specifications are:
                > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
                > on a alt/az fork tripod.
                >
                > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
                > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
                > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up deals.
                >
                > Markus - you have my thanks!
                >
                > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a full
                > scale report on this item.
                >
                > here are some pics:
                >
                > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
                >
                > best greetings,
                >
                > Dietmar
                >
              • Wayne G
                ... WG: Both interesting and curious, Markus. I just finished having a heated discussion about stereo and binocular viewers on another forum; one proponent
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 1 4:45 PM
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                  apm_telecopes wrote:
                  > you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside , California
                  >
                  >
                  > we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far
                  >
                  > new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new ED douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year
                  >

                  WG: Both interesting and curious, Markus. I just finished having a
                  heated discussion about stereo and binocular viewers on another forum;
                  one proponent claimed that he sees no loss of light whatsoever adding a
                  binoviewer to the light path over a straight single eyepiece, which I
                  find hard to believe.

                  What advantage do you see using a pair of 180mm telescopes over a single
                  one with binoviewer attached on astro viewing? I do note (Tim) that a
                  real binocular does have enhanced depth of field over just using a BV
                  with a single objective, even on astronomical views, though the brain
                  does seem to add some DOF of its own on such views.

                  WayneG
                • apm_telecopes
                  Wayne our brain and eyes are magic. If you use a binoviewer , sun, moon and planets looking brighter and bigger then with single eyepiece view. Here you notice
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 2 2:52 AM
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                    Wayne

                    our brain and eyes are magic.

                    If you use a binoviewer , sun, moon and planets looking brighter and bigger then with single eyepiece view.

                    Here you notice no dimming, but you feel opposite.

                    BUT

                    if you go with Binoviewer to galaxies and nebulaes, than you notice very quickly the big dimming against mono view.

                    using 2 scopes , means you have douple light and you also doing at least for closer objects an interferometrie

                    regards

                    Markus
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Wayne G
                    To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 1:45 AM
                    Subject: Re: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...


                    apm_telecopes wrote:
                    > you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside , California
                    >
                    >
                    > we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far
                    >
                    > new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new ED douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year
                    >

                    WG: Both interesting and curious, Markus. I just finished having a
                    heated discussion about stereo and binocular viewers on another forum;
                    one proponent claimed that he sees no loss of light whatsoever adding a
                    binoviewer to the light path over a straight single eyepiece, which I
                    find hard to believe.

                    What advantage do you see using a pair of 180mm telescopes over a single
                    one with binoviewer attached on astro viewing? I do note (Tim) that a
                    real binocular does have enhanced depth of field over just using a BV
                    with a single objective, even on astronomical views, though the brain
                    does seem to add some DOF of its own on such views.

                    WayneG





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tube Tim
                    ... With the larger bino that seemed to be the case where was with a pair of smaller ones it doesn t. Perhaps this was due to dark sky versus city skies and
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 2 4:40 AM
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                      >--- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, Wayne G <fomalhaut@...> wrote:
                      >

                      > WG:
                      > I do note (Tim) that a real binocular does have enhanced depth of
                      > field over just using a BV with a single objective, even on
                      > astronomical views,

                      With the larger bino that seemed to be the case where was with a pair
                      of smaller ones it doesn't. Perhaps this was due to dark sky versus
                      city skies and richer star fields filling in more details. Be that as
                      it may I've read research papers on machine vision for stereoscopic
                      vision and I thought the human vision system (HVS) loses the ability
                      to see 3D due to the displancement of the eyes ("range finder") in 30
                      meters (?). An experiment I've tried is shine a laser into a fog bank
                      and view the beam with both eyes. At some point you see the two beams
                      converge to one and I suspect that is the limit of range finder mode.
                      Not sure, maybe it doesn't mean anything.

                      > though the brain does seem to add some DOF
                      > of its own on such views.

                      THe HVS is pretty amazing as it can fill in the 3d details using
                      information about objects in the scene. Example, look at a scene and
                      cover one eye. You still know from the objects in the scene the chair
                      is in front of the desk and the LCD is on the rear portion of the
                      desk. Another example of HVS is look at a room filled with chairs
                      piled up at random. Find the one rocker chair amongst all others.
                      The HVS would solve this in the blink of an eye. A computer / VVD
                      would take it's time.

                      ___
                      Tim on a cloudy pre-dawn morning.

                      >
                      > WayneG
                      >
                    • erdmanpe
                      How is the output optical path done? From Dietmar s picture it looks like three right angle changes. Do you use prisms or mirrors? Is the path large enough
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 2 9:01 AM
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                        How is the output optical path done? From Dietmar's picture it looks
                        like three right angle changes. Do you use prisms or mirrors? Is the
                        path large enough for full 2" eyepieces (or are any of those small
                        enough for our eye spacing)?

                        Peter

                        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "apm_telecopes" <anfrage@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes
                        ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers
                        Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside , California
                        >
                        >
                        > we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far
                        >
                        > new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new ED
                        douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year
                        >
                        > regards
                        >
                        > Markus Ludes, APM
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: bradgregley10
                        > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:30 PM
                        > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...
                        >
                        >
                        > Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment!
                        >
                        > Greg.
                        >
                        > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
                        > <dietmar.hager@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > hi folks,
                        > >
                        > > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
                        > > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
                        > >
                        > > its specifications are:
                        > > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
                        > > on a alt/az fork tripod.
                        > >
                        > > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
                        > > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
                        > > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up
                        > deals.
                        > >
                        > > Markus - you have my thanks!
                        > >
                        > > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a
                        > full
                        > > scale report on this item.
                        > >
                        > > here are some pics:
                        > >
                        > > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
                        > >
                        > > best greetings,
                        > >
                        > > Dietmar
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • apm_telecopes
                        3 high reflection mirrors with about 98% reflection from Protostar are used output is 1.25 regards Markus ... From: erdmanpe To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 2 11:02 AM
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                          3 high reflection mirrors with about 98% reflection from Protostar are used

                          output is 1.25"

                          regards


                          Markus



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: erdmanpe
                          To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:01 PM
                          Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...


                          How is the output optical path done? From Dietmar's picture it looks
                          like three right angle changes. Do you use prisms or mirrors? Is the
                          path large enough for full 2" eyepieces (or are any of those small
                          enough for our eye spacing)?

                          Peter

                          --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "apm_telecopes" <anfrage@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-Telescopes
                          ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new Dealers
                          Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside , California
                          >
                          >
                          > we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far
                          >
                          > new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new ED
                          douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year
                          >
                          > regards
                          >
                          > Markus Ludes, APM
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: bradgregley10
                          > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:30 PM
                          > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...
                          >
                          >
                          > Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment!
                          >
                          > Greg.
                          >
                          > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
                          > <dietmar.hager@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > hi folks,
                          > >
                          > > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
                          > > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
                          > >
                          > > its specifications are:
                          > > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
                          > > on a alt/az fork tripod.
                          > >
                          > > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two very
                          > > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
                          > > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in setting up
                          > deals.
                          > >
                          > > Markus - you have my thanks!
                          > >
                          > > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and give a
                          > full
                          > > scale report on this item.
                          > >
                          > > here are some pics:
                          > >
                          > > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
                          > >
                          > > best greetings,
                          > >
                          > > Dietmar
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Wayne G
                          ... WG: Thank you Markus for being astute enough to recognize this! ... WG: Funny, I just had a fellow on another group accuse me of being combative or
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 2 4:39 PM
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                            apm_telecopes wrote:
                            > Wayne
                            >
                            > our brain and eyes are magic.
                            >

                            WG: Thank you Markus for being astute enough to recognize this!


                            > BUT if you go with Binoviewer to galaxies and nebulaes, than you notice very quickly the big dimming against mono view.
                            >

                            WG: Funny, I just had a fellow on another group accuse me of being
                            combative or intolerant (if not outright wrong) for trying to point out
                            to him the futility/ liabilities of using a BV on deep sky with even a
                            C-14 due to the losses involved. You have to have losses and a C-14 is
                            not SO powerful that it can afford them except on the brightest
                            objects. But the other person maintained that he can see threshold
                            stars just as well through a BV as without one. This is clearly
                            impossible by all rules of physics. There must be losses. But when you
                            try to debate such issues with facts, there are always a few reactive
                            types who try to label you as a way of being dismissive.

                            Don't forget, in today's world, there are no wrong people, just
                            differences of OPINION.

                            WayneG
                          • Wayne G
                            ... WG: Funny Tim, your comments closely mirror a discussion I just had on another group again. There was a confusion about the true meaning and nature of
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 2 4:46 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Tube Tim wrote:
                              > WG:
                              >> I do note (Tim) that a real binocular does have enhanced depth of
                              >> field over just using a BV with a single objective, even on
                              >> astronomical views,
                              >>
                              >
                              > With the larger bino that seemed to be the case where was with a pair
                              > of smaller ones it doesn't. Perhaps this was due to dark sky versus
                              > city skies and richer star fields filling in more details. Be that as
                              > it may I've read research papers on machine vision for stereoscopic
                              > vision and I thought the human vision system (HVS) loses the ability
                              > to see 3D due to the displancement of the eyes ("range finder") in 30
                              > meters (?). An experiment I've tried is shine a laser into a fog bank
                              > and view the beam with both eyes. At some point you see the two beams
                              > converge to one and I suspect that is the limit of range finder mode.
                              > Not sure, maybe it doesn't mean anything.
                              >

                              WG: Funny Tim, your comments closely mirror a discussion I just had on
                              another group again. There was a confusion about the true meaning and
                              nature of terms like stereo vision, stereoscopic vision, binocular
                              vision and the like. But what you say above sounds absolutely right.


                              >
                              >
                              > THe HVS is pretty amazing as it can fill in the 3d details using
                              > information about objects in the scene.

                              WG: Right. The output to the brain is a stereo field to some degree
                              regardless of the input. The brain just expects and assumes a stereo
                              input and processes as such. It just varies in degree, just as a stereo
                              speaker system is still stereo even though it (the stereo signal) often
                              has monophonic components to it.

                              WayneG
                            • dietmar hager
                              ...hi guys, I knew you folks would wanna discuss abouzt that issue here...(((-: Diets no testreport yet - rain...clouds...rain....fog... ... are used ... looks
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 3 10:17 AM
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                                ...hi guys, I knew you folks would wanna discuss abouzt that issue
                                here...(((-:


                                Diets

                                no testreport yet - rain...clouds...rain....fog...


                                --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "apm_telecopes" <anfrage@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > 3 high reflection mirrors with about 98% reflection from Protostar
                                are used
                                >
                                > output is 1.25"
                                >
                                > regards
                                >
                                >
                                > Markus
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: erdmanpe
                                > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:01 PM
                                > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...
                                >
                                >
                                > How is the output optical path done? From Dietmar's picture it
                                looks
                                > like three right angle changes. Do you use prisms or mirrors? Is
                                the
                                > path large enough for full 2" eyepieces (or are any of those
                                small
                                > enough for our eye spacing)?
                                >
                                > Peter
                                >
                                > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "apm_telecopes" <anfrage@>
                                wrote:
                                > >
                                > > you and everyboday can buy this super Binoculars via APM-
                                Telescopes
                                > ( we hold the exclusiv for the US market ) and so via our new
                                Dealers
                                > Teton, Mark Rieck in Rigby Idaho and via OPT in Oceanside ,
                                California
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > we make them from 80 mm up to 175 mm so far
                                > >
                                > > new and light will be our next new version a 180/6 with my new
                                ED
                                > douplet Semiapo lenses, shall be ready before end of this year
                                > >
                                > > regards
                                > >
                                > > Markus Ludes, APM
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: bradgregley10
                                > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:30 PM
                                > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new toy...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Oh my! What a gorgeous piece of astro equipment!
                                > >
                                > > Greg.
                                > >
                                > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager"
                                > > <dietmar.hager@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > hi folks,
                                > > >
                                > > > I wanna proudly present my brand new toy:
                                > > > it is a double refractor - a so called "binoptic" system.
                                > > >
                                > > > its specifications are:
                                > > > 2 pieces of 5" f/6 TMB Apo
                                > > > on a alt/az fork tripod.
                                > > >
                                > > > I dealt this out with Markus Ludes and Markus Schumann - two
                                very
                                > > > sophisticated dealers you most probably know...(-:
                                > > > what I love with the APM guys is their flexibility in
                                setting up
                                > > deals.
                                > > >
                                > > > Markus - you have my thanks!
                                > > >
                                > > > as soon as I have gathered first light I shall return and
                                give a
                                > > full
                                > > > scale report on this item.
                                > > >
                                > > > here are some pics:
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/binoptic.htm
                                > > >
                                > > > best greetings,
                                > > >
                                > > > Dietmar
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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