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new 105/650 problems

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  • Wayne B.
    most of you may remember me, THE new Guy, who joined this group just a few weeks ago. i posted a few questions, and then a few more letting every one here
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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      most of you may remember me, THE new Guy, who joined this group just
      a few weeks ago. i posted a few questions, and then a few more
      letting every one here know i bought a new scope from APM. a
      TMB105/650 LW.

      actually the scope was shipped to me from a guy from N.J. and im
      guessing most of you know him very well.

      after the first 3 days, the weather man was in my corner and the next
      few nights were QUITE good.

      the first night a friend was with me whos knows more about apos than
      i, pointed out that a simple star test was not very impressive.

      and of course i had some other simple small concerns, that maybe
      werent so important anymore.

      so i made the call to Germany and talked with Markus.

      he wanted me to make sure and send him a picture of what i see.

      so i emailed him a calm and respectful letter expressing my concerns.
      i have a copy of it if anyone wants to read it.

      i few days later i recieved a responce from him, tellimg me he was
      going to ask Mr. Back to look at himself when he gets back from
      vacation. well the very next day, we all know what happend to
      thomas. so i knew that another action must be takin. i asked markus
      about it again in another email, and a few days later, his suggestion
      was for me to send my scope to some guy in south Florida. i was told
      this person is now a business partner of APM for US sales ???

      i spoke to this guy one time on the phone. i shipped out my scope to
      him 3 days later. in the mean time, at his request, i am trying to
      contact him again to let him know the tracking #.

      i have no email for this guy! he doesnt answear the phone during
      business hours and he has no voice mail ??????????

      i starting to feel like im just some guy who spent a CRAP load of
      money on a product that should be top shelf. but since im expressing
      concerns, the level of, or the quality of service is making me feel
      like..... you get what you pay for ???? or a simple example, buying
      a
      used car with no warrenty or buying a brand new BMW with a few simple
      problems that any dealership would be happy to make you happy.

      i dont know if im allowed to post names and quotes here, so i wont.

      this is the longest letter ive ever typed.

      if ANY ONE has a strong connection here that may be able to help,
      please let me know. i have plenty of nationwide long distance, and i
      would be happy to talk to any one who understands this stuff, and can
      offer me any assistance.

      a big thank you in advance for your time and help.

      respectfully: Wayne B.
    • Tube Tim
      ... Hi Wayne, ... What was the problem with the star test? ___ Tim
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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        >--- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne B." <spaceexp2001@...
        > wrote:

        Hi Wayne,

        > the first night a friend was with me whos knows more about apos than
        > i, pointed out that a simple star test was not very impressive.

        What was the problem with the star test?

        ___
        Tim
      • Geert Vandenbulcke
        Hi Wayne, Actually I m more worried about the the first night a friend was with me who knows more about apos than I, pointed out that a simple star test was
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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          Hi Wayne,

          Actually I'm more worried about the "the first night a friend was with me
          who knows more about apos than I, pointed out that a simple star test was
          not very impressive." part... You might've been worrying about nothing.
          Don't judge a telescope after one first night out. Was the telescope cooled
          down well, how was the seeing, how where observing conditions, what
          accessories and eyepieces did you use? Anyway, seems you are somewhat
          unlucky about how communications are going. I hope your worries are sorted
          out and answered in due time and that you will be happy with your TMB in the
          end.

          Geert Vandenbulcke
          Belgium


          _____

          Van: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com] Namens
          Wayne B.
          Verzonden: woensdag 2 augustus 2006 18:02
          Aan: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
          Onderwerp: [tmboptical] new 105/650 problems



          most of you may remember me, THE new Guy, who joined this group just
          a few weeks ago. i posted a few questions, and then a few more
          letting every one here know i bought a new scope from APM. a
          TMB105/650 LW.

          actually the scope was shipped to me from a guy from N.J. and im
          guessing most of you know him very well.

          after the first 3 days, the weather man was in my corner and the next
          few nights were QUITE good.

          the first night a friend was with me whos knows more about apos than
          i, pointed out that a simple star test was not very impressive.

          and of course i had some other simple small concerns, that maybe
          werent so important anymore.

          so i made the call to Germany and talked with Markus.

          he wanted me to make sure and send him a picture of what i see.

          so i emailed him a calm and respectful letter expressing my concerns.
          i have a copy of it if anyone wants to read it.

          i few days later i recieved a responce from him, tellimg me he was
          going to ask Mr. Back to look at himself when he gets back from
          vacation. well the very next day, we all know what happend to
          thomas. so i knew that another action must be takin. i asked markus
          about it again in another email, and a few days later, his suggestion
          was for me to send my scope to some guy in south Florida. i was told
          this person is now a business partner of APM for US sales ???

          i spoke to this guy one time on the phone. i shipped out my scope to
          him 3 days later. in the mean time, at his request, i am trying to
          contact him again to let him know the tracking #.

          i have no email for this guy! he doesnt answear the phone during
          business hours and he has no voice mail ??????????

          i starting to feel like im just some guy who spent a CRAP load of
          money on a product that should be top shelf. but since im expressing
          concerns, the level of, or the quality of service is making me feel
          like..... you get what you pay for ???? or a simple example, buying
          a
          used car with no warrenty or buying a brand new BMW with a few simple
          problems that any dealership would be happy to make you happy.

          i dont know if im allowed to post names and quotes here, so i wont.

          this is the longest letter ive ever typed.

          if ANY ONE has a strong connection here that may be able to help,
          please let me know. i have plenty of nationwide long distance, and i
          would be happy to talk to any one who understands this stuff, and can
          offer me any assistance.

          a big thank you in advance for your time and help.

          respectfully: Wayne B.






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        • Wayne B.
          the scope was out on the first night for almost 3 hours. 3 nights later the scope was out about an hour longer since the moon was coming up later in the
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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            the scope was out on the first night for almost 3 hours. 3 nights
            later the scope was out about an hour longer since the moon was
            coming up later in the night. Both nights were about equal in seeing
            conditions.

            i dont have an actual number on this but seeing conditions were
            pretty good considering were talking about north Pittsburgh. the
            milky way was quite visible, and a very calm atmosphere was also
            evident. we made a point to drive out to the country so we could
            really enjoy this new toy of mine.

            The first thing that was noticed by both of us was coming to focus. I
            have a TV85 that I was comparing to. And he has a stellarvue 102BV.
            Nothing would come to a snap to focus. You always need to use the
            micro focuser even at very low power. after about the first hour my
            partner was the first to see what a star test looks like.

            Inside of focus was actually somewhat impressive. But there was a
            hint of coma. Well when you went to the other side of focus, the coma
            became apparent along with an ugly spherical aberration. This is
            when I needed to talk to more people about the experience before I
            make a request for replacement or servicing. I talked to a few
            people. It was suggested that I at least call markus. We talked
            briefly, and he ask me to try it again and take a picture, well since
            im not set up for astro-photo, he said if I can show him anything,
            even if I have to look online for a pic, he would try and help me out.

            3 nights later, the experience was the same, and with an additional
            pair of eyes. Even though these eyes are less experienced than mine,
            we all agreed that we saw the same things.

            At this point of the story, we are up to where i posted a message
            just a bit ago.

            And as far at the other things go, I was concerned with, ill leave
            that one alone for now.
          • Wayne B.
            I forgot to post the other equipment I was using. Every thing was set up on a CG-5 goto. The 2 dielectric diagonal from the TV85 was being used, along with my
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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              I forgot to post the other equipment I was using.

              Every thing was set up on a CG-5 goto. The 2" dielectric diagonal from
              the TV85 was being used, along with my eyepieces only. which half of
              them are the series 4000 ultra wides, and a few panoptics a a few
              naglers. It was actually easy to push the scope up to 260 power on both
              nights. And I did so numerous times. By the way that was all the power
              I have. A 5mm nagler with a Orion shorty PLUS Barlow.
            • Mark
              ... Your scope may or may not have a problem, but here are some thoughts. Longer and faster lenses will have less depth of field than shorter or slower ones.
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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                --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne B." <spaceexp2001@...> wrote:
                >
                > I forgot to post the other equipment I was using.
                >
                > Every thing was set up on a CG-5 goto. The 2" dielectric diagonal from
                > the TV85 was being used, along with my eyepieces only. which half of
                > them are the series 4000 ultra wides, and a few panoptics a a few
                > naglers. It was actually easy to push the scope up to 260 power on both
                > nights. And I did so numerous times. By the way that was all the power
                > I have. A 5mm nagler with a Orion shorty PLUS Barlow.
                >

                Your scope may or may not have a problem, but here are some thoughts.

                Longer and faster lenses will have less depth of field than shorter or
                slower ones. I don't know if the differences between the scopes would
                be meaningful.

                The TMB is F6.2 with a focal length of 650mm
                The TV85 is f7 with a focal length of 595mm
                The SV102bv is F8.7 with a focal length of 890mm

                Personally, I find I use the speed reduction on the feathertouch to
                carefully tweak the focus every time - because I can.

                I wonder about using "super wide" and "ultra wide" eyepieces for star
                testing a scope. Some of the tradeoffs used to get the wider afov are
                likely to cause other problems that are easier to spot in a faster
                scope. This might throw off your results.

                Here's a link to an article Thomas wrote a while back on star testing:

                http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/tmb/tmb4.html

                Markus is working with GCS Optical in Florida. My impression is the
                guy who runs GCS also has a full time job that sometimes requires him
                to travel, so they could be closed for days at a time.

                Good luck with your scope.
              • Geert Vandenbulcke
                Hi Wayne, that s a better explanation. Seems your scope needs adjustment. Geert Vdbulcke _____ Van: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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                  Hi Wayne,

                  that's a better explanation. Seems your scope needs adjustment.

                  Geert Vdbulcke

                  _____

                  Van: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com] Namens
                  Wayne B.
                  Verzonden: woensdag 2 augustus 2006 20:31
                  Aan: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                  Onderwerp: [tmboptical] Re: new 105/650 problems



                  the scope was out on the first night for almost 3 hours. 3 nights
                  later the scope was out about an hour longer since the moon was
                  coming up later in the night. Both nights were about equal in seeing
                  conditions.

                  i dont have an actual number on this but seeing conditions were
                  pretty good considering were talking about north Pittsburgh. the
                  milky way was quite visible, and a very calm atmosphere was also
                  evident. we made a point to drive out to the country so we could
                  really enjoy this new toy of mine.

                  The first thing that was noticed by both of us was coming to focus. I
                  have a TV85 that I was comparing to. And he has a stellarvue 102BV.
                  Nothing would come to a snap to focus. You always need to use the
                  micro focuser even at very low power. after about the first hour my
                  partner was the first to see what a star test looks like.

                  Inside of focus was actually somewhat impressive. But there was a
                  hint of coma. Well when you went to the other side of focus, the coma
                  became apparent along with an ugly spherical aberration. This is
                  when I needed to talk to more people about the experience before I
                  make a request for replacement or servicing. I talked to a few
                  people. It was suggested that I at least call markus. We talked
                  briefly, and he ask me to try it again and take a picture, well since
                  im not set up for astro-photo, he said if I can show him anything,
                  even if I have to look online for a pic, he would try and help me out.

                  3 nights later, the experience was the same, and with an additional
                  pair of eyes. Even though these eyes are less experienced than mine,
                  we all agreed that we saw the same things.

                  At this point of the story, we are up to where i posted a message
                  just a bit ago.

                  And as far at the other things go, I was concerned with, ill leave
                  that one alone for now.






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                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date: 1/08/2006



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes
                  Hi Wayne It would be really very nice if you would talk to me the seller regards problems first . Tell me please why you reporting to this newsgroup that you
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 3, 2006
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                    Hi Wayne

                    It would be really very nice if you would talk to me the seller regards problems first . Tell me please why you reporting to this newsgroup that you fail to contact John by Phone ? Why not yet you have send me this information ?

                    Regards the telescope sold to you : It was tested with standart superb startest in Germany before I shipped it to NEAF. At Neaf it was on a mount on Display and me and some other guys looked through it on artifical star and still it was perfect. Then I self packed it into boxes and drove it by car to Alan Traino, where it was unpacked by Alan again and repacked for you. Now if something happened like a bad schock on the transit from Alan to you, then we fix it, therefore I asked you to send it to John, APM-USA , who doing such test on my behalf, because Thomas has health problems.

                    So all is fully under controle.
                    What I not understand is that you write each single step from first contact to you, over the purchase till now to the public groups. We both habe a business and such business is not for any public , do you understand that ?

                    Only if we run into a bad problem and I would refuse from any help to you, then you could go to public and ask for help. But so far we are not at this point and therefore I ask you to shut down and stop writing about direct and personal communication between you, my customer, and me, your dealer , ok ?

                    thanks

                    Markus Ludes


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Wayne B.
                    To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:02 PM
                    Subject: [tmboptical] new 105/650 problems


                    most of you may remember me, THE new Guy, who joined this group just
                    a few weeks ago. i posted a few questions, and then a few more
                    letting every one here know i bought a new scope from APM. a
                    TMB105/650 LW.

                    actually the scope was shipped to me from a guy from N.J. and im
                    guessing most of you know him very well.

                    after the first 3 days, the weather man was in my corner and the next
                    few nights were QUITE good.

                    the first night a friend was with me whos knows more about apos than
                    i, pointed out that a simple star test was not very impressive.

                    and of course i had some other simple small concerns, that maybe
                    werent so important anymore.

                    so i made the call to Germany and talked with Markus.

                    he wanted me to make sure and send him a picture of what i see.

                    so i emailed him a calm and respectful letter expressing my concerns.
                    i have a copy of it if anyone wants to read it.

                    i few days later i recieved a responce from him, tellimg me he was
                    going to ask Mr. Back to look at himself when he gets back from
                    vacation. well the very next day, we all know what happend to
                    thomas. so i knew that another action must be takin. i asked markus
                    about it again in another email, and a few days later, his suggestion
                    was for me to send my scope to some guy in south Florida. i was told
                    this person is now a business partner of APM for US sales ???

                    i spoke to this guy one time on the phone. i shipped out my scope to
                    him 3 days later. in the mean time, at his request, i am trying to
                    contact him again to let him know the tracking #.

                    i have no email for this guy! he doesnt answear the phone during
                    business hours and he has no voice mail ??????????

                    i starting to feel like im just some guy who spent a CRAP load of
                    money on a product that should be top shelf. but since im expressing
                    concerns, the level of, or the quality of service is making me feel
                    like..... you get what you pay for ???? or a simple example, buying
                    a
                    used car with no warrenty or buying a brand new BMW with a few simple
                    problems that any dealership would be happy to make you happy.

                    i dont know if im allowed to post names and quotes here, so i wont.

                    this is the longest letter ive ever typed.

                    if ANY ONE has a strong connection here that may be able to help,
                    please let me know. i have plenty of nationwide long distance, and i
                    would be happy to talk to any one who understands this stuff, and can
                    offer me any assistance.

                    a big thank you in advance for your time and help.

                    respectfully: Wayne B.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dietmar hager
                    Wayne, I regret to read about Your recent concerns and problems You have to face. but I can tell You this and it comes from my personal experience and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 3, 2006
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                      Wayne,

                      I regret to read about Your recent concerns and problems You have to
                      face.
                      but I can tell You this and it comes from my personal experience and
                      enterprises I have gathered with APM products:

                      as some other guys have already pointed out before, it takes a while
                      to test a scope`s "ability" and performance quality - more than at
                      least a couple of nights.
                      different conditions have to be considerd.
                      different objects should be choosen - and observed each testing
                      night again - this alone gives You the chance to find out if it`s
                      the scope or the athmosphere playing a trick on You,...

                      make sure U use high quality eye pieces and also make sure Your
                      mount offers perfect stability to make startesting with high
                      magnification (3 to 5 times the fdiameter of the objective in mm)
                      possible at all...

                      use a reference scope of similar design if anyhow possible
                      to check the seeing-condtitions of the athmosphere. U might this
                      useful:
                      http://uk.geocities.com/dpeach_78/pickering.htm

                      and to foresee the seeing this might be helpful as well:
                      http://deutsch.wunderground.com/US/Region/US/JetStream.html

                      so take Your time and t h e n draw Your conclusions.
                      perhaps the friend of Yours might help in judging the performance of
                      the scope.

                      and in the case that You might find real "physical" insufficiencies
                      of the tube or the lenssystem (misalignment after transportation)
                      I`m sure Markus will help You to work the problem successfully.
                      I referr to him as a very reliable buisiness man.
                      I have made several deals and I was always perfectly content with
                      his work - even if there were some problems.

                      on the other hand I can understand You deeply that You`re
                      disapointed at this time.
                      but
                      keep Your ears pricked and let us know what You`ll find out!

                      BTW: an image taken with a decent camera would make it easier to
                      judge the scope`s quality. You could post it here in this forum. (no
                      compression!)

                      regards and good luck!
                      Dietmar

                      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne B." <spaceexp2001@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > most of you may remember me, THE new Guy, who joined this group
                      just
                      > a few weeks ago. i posted a few questions, and then a few more
                      > letting every one here know i bought a new scope from APM. a
                      > TMB105/650 LW.
                      >
                      > actually the scope was shipped to me from a guy from N.J. and im
                      > guessing most of you know him very well.
                      >
                      > after the first 3 days, the weather man was in my corner and the
                      next
                      > few nights were QUITE good.
                      >
                      > the first night a friend was with me whos knows more about apos
                      than
                      > i, pointed out that a simple star test was not very impressive.
                      >
                      > and of course i had some other simple small concerns, that maybe
                      > werent so important anymore.
                      >
                      > so i made the call to Germany and talked with Markus.
                      >
                      > he wanted me to make sure and send him a picture of what i see.
                      >
                      > so i emailed him a calm and respectful letter expressing my
                      concerns.
                      > i have a copy of it if anyone wants to read it.
                      >
                      > i few days later i recieved a responce from him, tellimg me he was
                      > going to ask Mr. Back to look at himself when he gets back from
                      > vacation. well the very next day, we all know what happend to
                      > thomas. so i knew that another action must be takin. i asked
                      markus
                      > about it again in another email, and a few days later, his
                      suggestion
                      > was for me to send my scope to some guy in south Florida. i was
                      told
                      > this person is now a business partner of APM for US sales ???
                      >
                      > i spoke to this guy one time on the phone. i shipped out my scope
                      to
                      > him 3 days later. in the mean time, at his request, i am trying to
                      > contact him again to let him know the tracking #.
                      >
                      > i have no email for this guy! he doesnt answear the phone during
                      > business hours and he has no voice mail ??????????
                      >
                      > i starting to feel like im just some guy who spent a CRAP load of
                      > money on a product that should be top shelf. but since im
                      expressing
                      > concerns, the level of, or the quality of service is making me
                      feel
                      > like..... you get what you pay for ???? or a simple example,
                      buying
                      > a
                      > used car with no warrenty or buying a brand new BMW with a few
                      simple
                      > problems that any dealership would be happy to make you happy.
                      >
                      > i dont know if im allowed to post names and quotes here, so i wont.
                      >
                      > this is the longest letter ive ever typed.
                      >
                      > if ANY ONE has a strong connection here that may be able to help,
                      > please let me know. i have plenty of nationwide long distance,
                      and i
                      > would be happy to talk to any one who understands this stuff, and
                      can
                      > offer me any assistance.
                      >
                      > a big thank you in advance for your time and help.
                      >
                      > respectfully: Wayne B.
                      >
                    • Wayne B.
                      To Markus, and any one else who MAY feel I have over stepped any boundaries. First, I want to mention that I have contacted your representative in Florida. And
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 3, 2006
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                        To Markus, and any one else who MAY feel I have over stepped any
                        boundaries.

                        First, I want to mention that I have contacted your representative in
                        Florida. And I did send him the telescope. He has it now as I type
                        this message.

                        I only posted this message on yahoo groups because some things seem
                        to be misunderstood. For example, my communication with John in
                        Florida.

                        The one time I did talk to John, he was very understanding and very
                        professional. He was also thorough in asking questions and wanted to
                        assure me that he will do what ever he can to help fix any possible
                        problems.

                        I don't want to repeat myself from a previous message, based on what
                        I wrote I think my concerns were understandable. And thank you to
                        every one who responded, and expressed their assurance that I should
                        not worry about it.

                        That being said and seeing the response that you wrote Markus. I am
                        honestly sorry for insinuating that I am not getting any help at all.
                        I am also sorry for posting the first message while the scope was in
                        the first stages of being looked at.

                        I was honestly posting my concerns, and it is now looking like I am
                        making a mountain out of a molehill.

                        Please accept my apology! I have no problem waiting for how ever
                        long it takes to hear back from John or yourself.

                        Respectfully: Wayne Boles
                      • Wayne B.
                        by the way, if any one here can translate a message from me, to once again express my sincere apologies to Markus. that would be most kind of you. again, i
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 3, 2006
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                          by the way, if any one here can translate a message from me, to once
                          again express my sincere apologies to Markus. that would be most kind
                          of you.

                          again, i want to thank every one who sent me a response. also the link
                          that Thomas wrote that was sent to me was also very helpful.

                          clear skies to all !!

                          with much gratitude...... Wayne B.
                        • APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes
                          Hi Wayne I am in contact with John and as soon he could perform a relaible startest I will know his opinion to whom I trust, because we did both many times
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 4, 2006
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                            Hi Wayne

                            I am in contact with John and as soon he could perform a relaible startest I will know his opinion to whom I trust, because we did both many times together observings, so I know how to rate Johns impression and from there we will continue

                            talk to you soon


                            regards
                            Markus


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Wayne B.
                            To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:00 PM
                            Subject: [tmboptical] Re: new 105/650 problems


                            To Markus, and any one else who MAY feel I have over stepped any
                            boundaries.

                            First, I want to mention that I have contacted your representative in
                            Florida. And I did send him the telescope. He has it now as I type
                            this message.

                            I only posted this message on yahoo groups because some things seem
                            to be misunderstood. For example, my communication with John in
                            Florida.

                            The one time I did talk to John, he was very understanding and very
                            professional. He was also thorough in asking questions and wanted to
                            assure me that he will do what ever he can to help fix any possible
                            problems.

                            I don't want to repeat myself from a previous message, based on what
                            I wrote I think my concerns were understandable. And thank you to
                            every one who responded, and expressed their assurance that I should
                            not worry about it.

                            That being said and seeing the response that you wrote Markus. I am
                            honestly sorry for insinuating that I am not getting any help at all.
                            I am also sorry for posting the first message while the scope was in
                            the first stages of being looked at.

                            I was honestly posting my concerns, and it is now looking like I am
                            making a mountain out of a molehill.

                            Please accept my apology! I have no problem waiting for how ever
                            long it takes to hear back from John or yourself.

                            Respectfully: Wayne Boles





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