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Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB telescopes?

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  • ciscochrist
    I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but somebody once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an actual TMB telescope, as it
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but somebody
      once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an actual
      TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.

      Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building of
      all the TMB telescopes.

      I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
      name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
      archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
      under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.

      Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
      adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than the
      ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.

      So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck TMB
      telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?

      Mike
    • Tom Davis
      Mike, Your TMB 130mm F/6 is indeed a TMB scope. The difference is the final checkout and collimation services that Thomas performs on each scope he delivers.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
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        Mike,

        Your TMB 130mm F/6 is indeed a TMB scope. The difference is the final checkout and
        collimation services that Thomas performs on each scope he delivers. The optics are
        the same, the mechanics the same. The advantage to buying directly from Thomas Back
        is that he carefully ensure that each scope he sells is set up to perform as well as it can,
        optically, mechanically, and cosmetically. He is almost fanatical in his attention to detail.
        This is not to say that Markus simply throws the scope in a box and ships them, but rather
        that if you have a problem created by mistreatment in shipment from Germany, you will have
        to ship it back there for repair. Also, if a problem occurs after purchase, it needs to go back
        to APM. There is a real advantage here for US customers to buy directly from TMB. just
        as there would be for European customers to buy from APM. The product is the same, but
        the advantage of local service is a real one.

        Thanks, Tom Davis

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ciscochrist
        To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:21 PM
        Subject: [tmboptical] Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB telescopes?


        I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but somebody
        once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an actual
        TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.

        Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building of
        all the TMB telescopes.

        I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
        name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
        archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
        under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.

        Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
        adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than the
        ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.

        So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck TMB
        telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?

        Mike





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • justinweigle
        I thought I remembered reading somewhere that APM telescopes sold in the USA would be serviced by TMB Optical should a problem arise. It s been awhile so I
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
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          I thought I remembered reading somewhere that APM telescopes sold in
          the USA would be serviced by TMB Optical should a problem arise.
          It's been awhile so I can't recall for certain.

          --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Davis" <tdavis011@...> wrote:
          >
          > Mike,
          >
          > Your TMB 130mm F/6 is indeed a TMB scope. The difference is the
          final checkout and
          > collimation services that Thomas performs on each scope he
          delivers. The optics are
          > the same, the mechanics the same. The advantage to buying directly
          from Thomas Back
          > is that he carefully ensure that each scope he sells is set up to
          perform as well as it can,
          > optically, mechanically, and cosmetically. He is almost fanatical
          in his attention to detail.
          > This is not to say that Markus simply throws the scope in a box and
          ships them, but rather
          > that if you have a problem created by mistreatment in shipment from
          Germany, you will have
          > to ship it back there for repair. Also, if a problem occurs after
          purchase, it needs to go back
          > to APM. There is a real advantage here for US customers to buy
          directly from TMB. just
          > as there would be for European customers to buy from APM. The
          product is the same, but
          > the advantage of local service is a real one.
          >
          > Thanks, Tom Davis
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: ciscochrist
          > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:21 PM
          > Subject: [tmboptical] Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck
          TMB telescopes?
          >
          >
          > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
          somebody
          > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
          actual
          > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
          >
          > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
          building of
          > all the TMB telescopes.
          >
          > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
          > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
          > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the
          USA,
          > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
          >
          > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects
          and
          > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than
          the
          > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
          >
          > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas
          Beck TMB
          > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • tdavis011
          ... That would apply only to those sold through TMB. Thanks, Tom Davis
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "justinweigle" <justinweigle@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I thought I remembered reading somewhere that APM telescopes sold in
            > the USA would be serviced by TMB Optical should a problem arise.
            > It's been awhile so I can't recall for certain.
            >
            That would apply only to those sold through TMB.

            Thanks, Tom Davis
          • Neil Fleming
            Didn t Markus and Thomas put up a posting not too long ago stating that there was now an arrangement for Thomas to do warranty work on Markus behalf? ...Neil
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 26, 2006
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              Didn't Markus and Thomas put up a posting not too long ago stating that
              there was now an arrangement for Thomas to do warranty work on Markus'
              behalf?

              ...Neil

              www.flemingastrophotography.com
              Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup

              >From: "Tom Davis" <tdavis011@...>
              >Reply-To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <tmboptical@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [tmboptical] Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB
              >telescopes?
              >Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:34:51 -0400
              >
              >Mike,
              >
              >Your TMB 130mm F/6 is indeed a TMB scope. The difference is the final
              >checkout and
              >collimation services that Thomas performs on each scope he delivers. The
              >optics are
              >the same, the mechanics the same. The advantage to buying directly from
              >Thomas Back
              >is that he carefully ensure that each scope he sells is set up to perform
              >as well as it can,
              >optically, mechanically, and cosmetically. He is almost fanatical in his
              >attention to detail.
              >This is not to say that Markus simply throws the scope in a box and ships
              >them, but rather
              >that if you have a problem created by mistreatment in shipment from
              >Germany, you will have
              >to ship it back there for repair. Also, if a problem occurs after
              >purchase, it needs to go back
              >to APM. There is a real advantage here for US customers to buy directly
              >from TMB. just
              >as there would be for European customers to buy from APM. The product is
              >the same, but
              >the advantage of local service is a real one.
              >
              >Thanks, Tom Davis
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ciscochrist
              > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:21 PM
              > Subject: [tmboptical] Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB
              >telescopes?
              >
              >
              > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but somebody
              > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an actual
              > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
              >
              > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building of
              > all the TMB telescopes.
              >
              > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
              > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
              > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
              > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
              >
              > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
              > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than the
              > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
              >
              > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck TMB
              > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
              >
              > Mike
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • tdavis011
              ... that ... Markus ... Neil, I checked with Thomas on this yesterday. His answer is that he will handle such situations on a case-by-case basis. This is
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
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                --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Fleming" <neilfleming@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Didn't Markus and Thomas put up a posting not too long ago stating
                that
                > there was now an arrangement for Thomas to do warranty work on
                Markus'
                > behalf?
                >
                > ...Neil
                >
                Neil,

                I checked with Thomas on this yesterday. His answer is that he will
                handle such situations on a case-by-case basis. This is what he has
                now agreed to do. This means that if someone has an APM purchased
                TMB scope here in the USA, they should first contact Thomas about it
                if there is a warranty problem by either phone or email.

                Thanks, Tom Davis
              • dietmar hager
                Mike, don`t U worry! scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through Mr. Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything is
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mike,

                  don`t U worry!
                  scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through Mr.
                  Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything is
                  fine and well done!
                  my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb apo
                  was.
                  read this here:
                  http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                  MAtthias has golden hands!
                  so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                  best quality.
                  hope this hepls You
                  regards

                  Dietmar

                  --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                  somebody
                  > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                  actual
                  > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                  >
                  > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building
                  of
                  > all the TMB telescopes.
                  >
                  > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
                  > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                  > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
                  > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                  >
                  > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
                  > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than
                  the
                  > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                  >
                  > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck
                  TMB
                  > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                • dennis
                  This link doesn t work for me. ... From: dietmar hager To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM Subject: [tmboptical] Re:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    This link doesn't work for me.


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: dietmar hager
                    To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                    Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB
                    telescopes?


                    Mike,

                    don`t U worry!
                    scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through Mr.
                    Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything is
                    fine and well done!
                    my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb apo
                    was.
                    read this here:
                    http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                    MAtthias has golden hands!
                    so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                    best quality.
                    hope this hepls You
                    regards

                    Dietmar

                    --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                    somebody
                    > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                    actual
                    > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                    >
                    > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building
                    of
                    > all the TMB telescopes.
                    >
                    > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
                    > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                    > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
                    > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                    >
                    > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
                    > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than
                    the
                    > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                    >
                    > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck
                    TMB
                    > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >






                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --


                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Wayne G
                    1b. Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB telescopes? Posted by: Tom Davis tdavis011@bellsouth.net tdavis011 Date: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:34 pm
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      1b. Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB telescopes?
                      Posted by: "Tom Davis" tdavis011@... tdavis011
                      Date: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:34 pm (PDT)


                      There is a real advantage here for US customers to buy directly from
                      TMB.


                      [WG:] If I can interject here (hey, I know it's a long post, sorry),
                      but this thread caught my eye again as it has been talked about ad
                      nauseum many times before over the years. Sorry to rehash/perpetuate it
                      any further than need be and this will be my only input on this (old and
                      tired) topic.

                      As I see it, all TMB scopes are really a JOINT effort by APM and TMB,
                      each company carrying a vital role in the design and production of the
                      instruments, and as such each also represents a separate distributorship
                      and service center at opposite sides of the world (to the convenience of
                      customers everywhere). Who you chose to buy from should mainly be
                      influenced primarily by closeness of location, I should think, and
                      secondarily by any other factors that may be involved: cost, personal
                      preferences, etc.

                      IMO, No one understands the instrument better (if as well) as Thomas
                      Back naturally as he is the optical designer, and I don't think you will
                      get better service from anyone, just from my own personal experience
                      with him. He demands nothing less than perfection, whether in his
                      design work, or his assembly and testing. Perhaps the only manufacturer
                      in the business to personally star test each and every instrument before
                      shipping on a real star, even after bench testing: I like and
                      understand this because I share the same passion, commitment and ideals
                      in my own work as well: In a real sense, each product going out the
                      door represents a piece of YOU, and not just another buck (or Euro, as
                      it were).

                      As I understand it (or did so in the past I thought, I just don't have
                      time to follow the group as closely these days any more), TMB scopes
                      bought through Ohio(TMB) or Oklahoma(Astronomics) are assembled, tested,
                      warranted and serviced by Thomas Back directly. Scopes bought through
                      APM in Germany are assembled, tested, warranted, etc., by Markus. What
                      is hard to understand about that?

                      But both are also warranted to the same high standards--- I do not
                      think one can be rightly claimed to be "inferior" to the other, as they
                      both have the same origins and pedigree and I have heard many high
                      accolades for instruments bought from either source; it comes down to a
                      matter of which one is closer to you and maybe to whomever you'd prefer
                      to be the builder of the instrument for you. I suppose each one has
                      their own personal "following."

                      But here is where I become confused guys: perhaps I am reading wrongly
                      here and if so, I apologize to both Markus AND Tom, but originally when
                      this topic came up years ago, it was to both dispel any myth that a
                      customer should trepidate over buying from one source or the other for
                      fear of quality differences AND to establish that APM had (by contract
                      and/or gentlemanly agreement I thought) distributorship rights to all
                      regions of the world EXCEPT the USA and that USA sales (which I think
                      excluded the 80mm?) were supposed to be the exclusive domain of
                      TMB/Astronomics (which only makes good business SENSE otherwise how are
                      both to survive as a viable business?). . . . did I read incorrectly
                      the old posts or has that agreement somehow been altered since then?

                      But naturally, If you buy overseas (read: Europe et al), I shouldn't
                      think you would look to Tom Back for *service.* Why would you? As I
                      have always understood, Tom Back makes his money largely by the direct
                      sales that go through HIS hands, and if you cut him out of the loop by
                      buying overseas, you certainly cannot expect him to take it on the chin
                      if something goes wrong, and vise versa as well. Whomever is your
                      source for purchase has always been your source for support.

                      Only exception to this is usually a *manufacturing or design error,*
                      because APM chiefly handles that end of the business and service.
                      Correct? In that case, service MAY come direct to you (even in the USA)
                      via APM or indirectly (parts ordered, etc.) through Tom from APM, as
                      THEY see fit. Again, not rocket science here, I don't know why this is
                      hard for some.

                      Just as it makes good sense for those closer to Europe (or at least
                      outside the USA) to buy through APM, I should think those closer to the
                      USA or within should support and buy through Tom Back in Ohio or
                      Astronomics in Oklahoma. I believe (unless something has changed
                      greatly) that generates more direct capital for TMB. No capital for
                      TMB, no design work (and no TMB either!). No design work, no future
                      products or local support. Ouch. We all lose.

                      I apologize to all if I have blathered on or overstepped my bounds and
                      I'm sure either Tom or Markus will have more and better things to say on
                      this.

                      Sorry for the rant,

                      WayneG
                    • tmboptical
                      ... Guys, it is Thomas Back, not Thomas Beck. :-) Thomas Back ... Beck TMB ... Mr. ... apo ... building ... his ... USA, ... and ... Beck
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
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                        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@...> wrote:

                        Guys, it is Thomas Back, not Thomas "Beck." :-)

                        Thomas Back

                        > This link doesn't work for me.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: dietmar hager
                        > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                        > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas
                        Beck TMB
                        > telescopes?
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike,
                        >
                        > don`t U worry!
                        > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through
                        Mr.
                        > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything is
                        > fine and well done!
                        > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb
                        apo
                        > was.
                        > read this here:
                        > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                        > MAtthias has golden hands!
                        > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                        > best quality.
                        > hope this hepls You
                        > regards
                        >
                        > Dietmar
                        >
                        > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                        > somebody
                        > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                        > actual
                        > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                        > >
                        > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
                        building
                        > of
                        > > all the TMB telescopes.
                        > >
                        > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing
                        his
                        > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                        > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the
                        USA,
                        > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                        > >
                        > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects
                        and
                        > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than
                        > the
                        > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                        > >
                        > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas
                        Beck
                        > TMB
                        > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                        > >
                        > > Mike
                      • Tube Tim
                        ... I was wondering who that was. ... ___ Tim
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >--- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@...
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@> wrote:
                          >
                          > Guys, it is Thomas Back, not Thomas "Beck." :-)
                          >
                          > Thomas Back

                          I was wondering who that was.



                          :-))

                          ___
                          Tim
                        • Tube Tim
                          ... try: There was a stray character on the end of line. ___ Tim ... Beck TMB ... 6/26/2006
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > This link doesn't work for me.

                            try:

                            <http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm>

                            There was a stray character on the end of line.

                            ___
                            Tim



                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: dietmar hager
                            > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                            > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas
                            Beck TMB
                            > telescopes?
                            >
                            >
                            > Mike,
                            >
                            > don`t U worry!
                            > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through Mr.
                            > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything is
                            > fine and well done!
                            > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb apo
                            > was.
                            > read this here:
                            > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                            > MAtthias has golden hands!
                            > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                            > best quality.
                            > hope this hepls You
                            > regards
                            >
                            > Dietmar
                            >
                            > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                            > somebody
                            > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                            > actual
                            > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                            > >
                            > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the building
                            > of
                            > > all the TMB telescopes.
                            > >
                            > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing his
                            > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                            > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the USA,
                            > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                            > >
                            > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects and
                            > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different than
                            > the
                            > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                            > >
                            > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas Beck
                            > TMB
                            > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                            > >
                            > > Mike
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > --
                            >
                            >
                            > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date:
                            6/26/2006
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Paul Gustafson
                            ... There s an extra character at the end of the link. Try this: http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm Paul Gustafson
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "dennis" <tracy_tracy@...> wrote:
                              > This link doesn't work for me.

                              There's an extra character at the end of the link. Try this:

                              http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm

                              Paul Gustafson
                            • dietmar hager
                              Dennis, try again: http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm Dietmar ... Beck TMB ... Mr. ... is ... apo ... building ... his ... USA, ... and ...
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dennis,

                                try again:
                                http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm
                                Dietmar


                                --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > This link doesn't work for me.
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: dietmar hager
                                > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                                > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas
                                Beck TMB
                                > telescopes?
                                >
                                >
                                > Mike,
                                >
                                > don`t U worry!
                                > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through
                                Mr.
                                > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything
                                is
                                > fine and well done!
                                > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb
                                apo
                                > was.
                                > read this here:
                                > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                                > MAtthias has golden hands!
                                > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                                > best quality.
                                > hope this hepls You
                                > regards
                                >
                                > Dietmar
                                >
                                > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                                > somebody
                                > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                                > actual
                                > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                                > >
                                > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
                                building
                                > of
                                > > all the TMB telescopes.
                                > >
                                > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing
                                his
                                > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                                > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the
                                USA,
                                > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                                > >
                                > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects
                                and
                                > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different
                                than
                                > the
                                > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                                > >
                                > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas
                                Beck
                                > TMB
                                > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                                > >
                                > > Mike
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ---------
                                > --
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date:
                                6/26/2006
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • cjamescook
                                I suppose this also means you are no relation to guitarist Jeff Beck. That nixes the concert tix shipped with each order, too. Rats.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I suppose this also means you are no relation to guitarist Jeff Beck.
                                  That nixes the concert tix shipped with each order, too. Rats.


                                  --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@...> wrote:

                                  > Guys, it is Thomas Back, not Thomas "Beck." :-)
                                  >
                                  > Thomas Back
                                • dennis
                                  Yes, thank you. It works now. ... From: dietmar hager To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: [tmboptical] Re:
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 27, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yes, thank you. It works now.


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: dietmar hager
                                    To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:31 PM
                                    Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas Beck TMB
                                    telescopes?


                                    Dennis,

                                    try again:
                                    http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm
                                    Dietmar

                                    --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > This link doesn't work for me.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: dietmar hager
                                    > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                                    > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas
                                    Beck TMB
                                    > telescopes?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Mike,
                                    >
                                    > don`t U worry!
                                    > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through
                                    Mr.
                                    > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything
                                    is
                                    > fine and well done!
                                    > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb
                                    apo
                                    > was.
                                    > read this here:
                                    > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                                    > MAtthias has golden hands!
                                    > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                                    > best quality.
                                    > hope this hepls You
                                    > regards
                                    >
                                    > Dietmar
                                    >
                                    > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                                    > somebody
                                    > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                                    > actual
                                    > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                                    > >
                                    > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
                                    building
                                    > of
                                    > > all the TMB telescopes.
                                    > >
                                    > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing
                                    his
                                    > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                                    > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the
                                    USA,
                                    > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                                    > >
                                    > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects
                                    and
                                    > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different
                                    than
                                    > the
                                    > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                                    > >
                                    > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas
                                    Beck
                                    > TMB
                                    > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                                    > >
                                    > > Mike
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    ---------
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date:
                                    6/26/2006
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >






                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    --


                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • erdmanpe
                                    A very nice site describing an obviously wonderful and innovative instrument. One small thing that struck me was the graduations on the focuser. In the
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 28, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      A very nice site describing an obviously wonderful and innovative
                                      instrument. One small thing that struck me was the graduations on the
                                      focuser. In the course of changing configurations for imaging, I
                                      always rack the focuser to its approximate position based on my ruler.
                                      Here the ruler is built in, a nice touch.

                                      Peter

                                      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager" <dietmar.hager@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dennis,
                                      >
                                      > try again:
                                      > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm
                                      > Dietmar
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > This link doesn't work for me.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: dietmar hager
                                      > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                                      > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and Thomas
                                      > Beck TMB
                                      > > telescopes?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Mike,
                                      > >
                                      > > don`t U worry!
                                      > > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass through
                                      > Mr.
                                      > > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that everything
                                      > is
                                      > > fine and well done!
                                      > > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4" tmb
                                      > apo
                                      > > was.
                                      > > read this here:
                                      > > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                                      > > MAtthias has golden hands!
                                      > > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will always be
                                      > > best quality.
                                      > > hope this hepls You
                                      > > regards
                                      > >
                                      > > Dietmar
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist" <mike.corrieri@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before, but
                                      > > somebody
                                      > > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT an
                                      > > actual
                                      > > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
                                      > building
                                      > > of
                                      > > > all the TMB telescopes.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes bearing
                                      > his
                                      > > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this newsgroups
                                      > > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside the
                                      > USA,
                                      > > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck inspects
                                      > and
                                      > > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no different
                                      > than
                                      > > the
                                      > > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made Thomas
                                      > Beck
                                      > > TMB
                                      > > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Mike
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > ---------
                                      > > --
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date:
                                      > 6/26/2006
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • dietmar hager
                                      Peter, thanx! the gradient thing was due to a misalignment of the mirrors inside the tube. I got it improved. yesterday I took some testimages. I had some
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 28, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Peter,

                                        thanx!
                                        the gradient thing was due to a misalignment of the mirrors inside
                                        the tube.
                                        I got it improved.
                                        yesterday I took some testimages.
                                        I had some guiding problems which seem to be removed, finally.
                                        there was no gradient removal meaning sw-features or something.
                                        they all are single shots.
                                        http://stargazer.christelhager.info/test.htm

                                        crescent is very hard to get!

                                        now I need a couple of stacks and much more exposure time,...
                                        testiung period is almost over!

                                        greets
                                        dietmar


                                        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "erdmanpe" <erdmanpe@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > A very nice site describing an obviously wonderful and innovative
                                        > instrument. One small thing that struck me was the graduations on
                                        the
                                        > focuser. In the course of changing configurations for imaging, I
                                        > always rack the focuser to its approximate position based on my
                                        ruler.
                                        > Here the ruler is built in, a nice touch.
                                        >
                                        > Peter
                                        >
                                        > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dietmar hager" <dietmar.hager@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Dennis,
                                        > >
                                        > > try again:
                                        > > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm
                                        > > Dietmar
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "dennis" <tracy_tracy@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This link doesn't work for me.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: dietmar hager
                                        > > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:25 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Differences between APM/TMB and
                                        Thomas
                                        > > Beck TMB
                                        > > > telescopes?
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Mike,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > don`t U worry!
                                        > > > scopes that are manufactured here in Europe have to pass
                                        through
                                        > > Mr.
                                        > > > Matthias Wirth`s hands - and this the guarantee that
                                        everything
                                        > > is
                                        > > > fine and well done!
                                        > > > my 9" tmb schär-refractor was built by him, as well as my 4"
                                        tmb
                                        > > apo
                                        > > > was.
                                        > > > read this here:
                                        > > > http://stargazer.christelhager.info/reports5engl.htm`
                                        > > > MAtthias has golden hands!
                                        > > > so no matter where it was built- USA, Europe,...it will
                                        always be
                                        > > > best quality.
                                        > > > hope this hepls You
                                        > > > regards
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Dietmar
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "ciscochrist"
                                        <mike.corrieri@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I thought I had this answered to my satisfaction before,
                                        but
                                        > > > somebody
                                        > > > > once again has pointed out to me that my TMB 130/F6 is NOT
                                        an
                                        > > > actual
                                        > > > > TMB telescope, as it was not built by Thomas Beck.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Is there any substance to this? I thought APM managed the
                                        > > building
                                        > > > of
                                        > > > > all the TMB telescopes.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I know that Thomas Beck has designed these telescopes
                                        bearing
                                        > > his
                                        > > > > name, but it was my understanding from reading this
                                        newsgroups
                                        > > > > archives that ALL TMB telescopes are manufactured outside
                                        the
                                        > > USA,
                                        > > > > under contracts from APM, who does the assembly.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Furthermore, it was my understanding that Thomas Beck
                                        inspects
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > adjusts the telescopes he sells - but they are no
                                        different
                                        > > than
                                        > > > the
                                        > > > > ones provided directly from APM, from soup-to-nuts.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > So, is this correct, or are there actual American made
                                        Thomas
                                        > > Beck
                                        > > > TMB
                                        > > > > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Mike
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ----
                                        > > ---------
                                        > > > --
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release
                                        Date:
                                        > > 6/26/2006
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • David
                                        or are there actual American made Thomas Beck TMB ... This post started a long thread which was of great interest. One thing that I think is a significant
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 28, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          or are there actual American made Thomas Beck TMB
                                          > telescopes and German/Russian/EU made APM TMB telescopes?
                                          >

                                          This post started a long thread which was of great interest. One
                                          thing that I think is a significant difference between APM and TMB
                                          and that no one has pointed out yet is that you can't buy an ACHROMAT
                                          from TMB.

                                          At least if the websites are listing all available products.

                                          Dave C., retirement date: June 29 2006!!!!!!!!!!
                                        • alandfrench
                                          ... Happy first day of retirement. It s a good club to join. Clear skies, Alan
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 30, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "David" <doublestargeezer@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > [SNIP]
                                            > Dave C., retirement date: June 29 2006!!!!!!!!!!

                                            Happy first day of retirement. It's a good club to join.

                                            Clear skies, Alan
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.