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Re: [tmboptical] Re: Mars, Uranus, and deep-sky observations, May 13th, 2005

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  • Donald Rosenfield
    ... Donald Rosenfield is the first person to hear elephants trumpeting in Africa? Amazing...the media should be alerted ;-) **************** Cute, Eric. The
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
      >elephants trumpeting when i was closing the
      >observatory on the Tropic of Capricorn.

      Donald Rosenfield is the first person to hear elephants trumpeting in
      Africa? Amazing...the media should be alerted ;-)
      ****************
      Cute, Eric. The Tropic of Capricorn goes all around the Earth. The observatory, of the Universidade de São Paulo -- where I was taking my doctorate in planetarium curriculum development -- was in Brazil. The elephants were in the zoo across the highway from the observatory. They trumpeted each dawn.

      Donald A. Rosenfield (Head in the stars; feet on top of the clouds . . . well, that's what it felt like observing at 17,500 feet on top of a mountain in Peru on our 19,000-mile {27.000km} drive home from Brazil via Patagonia)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ericj
      ... Of course, but elephants are only found these days in portions of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. You made it sound like you were observing out in the
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
        >>elephants trumpeting when i was closing the
        >>observatory on the Tropic of Capricorn.
        >
        > Donald Rosenfield is the first person to hear elephants trumpeting in
        > Africa? Amazing...the media should be alerted ;-)
        > ****************

        > Cute, Eric. The Tropic of Capricorn goes all around the Earth.

        Of course, but elephants are only found these days in portions of
        sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. You made it sound like you were observing
        out in the wild with the elephants, when in fact you were in an observatory
        on top of a building and the elephants were across the highway in a zoo.

        Eric
      • Wayne G
        ... From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ericj Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 8:24 PM To:
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
          -----Original Message-----
          From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of ericj
          Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 8:24 PM
          To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tmboptical] Re: Mars, Uranus, and deep-sky observations, May
          13th, 2005

          You made it sound like you were observing
          out in the wild with the elephants.

          WG: Dear Eric, with all due respect, I really think Donald was merely
          taking a bit of literary license to convey what he thought was an
          interesting and memorable experience of his in a way which would invoke an
          interesting mental imagery for the TMB reader as well, and not trying to
          necessarily mislead the reader. But of course, as with most subjective
          posts written on the Internet to a wide and diverse readership, it is often
          hard to guarantee that anything written will be taken by all in the vein of
          thought in which it was intended.

          Wayne
        • Donald Rosenfield
          Thanks Wayne. Precisely. Donald You made it sound like you were observing out in the wild with the elephants. WG: Dear Eric, with all due respect, I really
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
            Thanks Wayne. Precisely.

            Donald


            You made it sound like you were observing
            out in the wild with the elephants.

            WG: Dear Eric, with all due respect, I really think Donald was merely
            taking a bit of literary license to convey what he thought was an
            interesting and memorable experience of his in a way which would invoke an
            interesting mental imagery for the TMB reader as well, and not trying to
            necessarily mislead the reader. But of course, as with most subjective
            posts written on the Internet to a wide and diverse readership, it is often
            hard to guarantee that anything written will be taken by all in the vein of
            thought in which it was intended.

            Wayne

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ericj@leapmail.net
            Dear Wayne: With all due respect that is why I am always taking the time to carefully and clearly write up my reports to avoid any possible confusion. I have
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
              Dear Wayne:

              With all due respect that is why I am always taking the time to carefully
              and clearly write up my reports to avoid any possible confusion. I have
              mentioned in the past that I observe from a rural location, and in this
              particular observing session heard owls in nearby trees. To me, listening
              to any wildlife while I am observing, owls, coyotes, wild turkeys, makes
              it a more interesting and memorable experience for me. Therefore I did not
              find
              Donald's comments valid that somehow listening to owls or any other
              wildlife was somehow less interesting and memorable experience than
              listening to elephants:

              "Eric only gets to listen to owls hooting whilst observing? I had three
              years of elephants trumpeting when i was closing the observatory on the
              Tropic of Capricorn"

              I have had other observing sessions in remote locations where bear,
              wolves, and bison were in the area, but to me this does not make someone
              else's observing session where they only heard a raccoon any less
              interesting and memorable experience than mine.

              Eric

              > Thanks Wayne. Precisely.
              >
              > Donald
              >
              >
              > You made it sound like you were observing
              > out in the wild with the elephants.
              >
              > WG: Dear Eric, with all due respect, I really think Donald was merely
              > taking a bit of literary license to convey what he thought was an
              > interesting and memorable experience of his in a way which would
              > invoke an interesting mental imagery for the TMB reader as well, and
              > not trying to necessarily mislead the reader. But of course, as with
              > most subjective posts written on the Internet to a wide and diverse
              > readership, it is often hard to guarantee that anything written will
              > be taken by all in the vein of thought in which it was intended.
              >
              > Wayne
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Wayne G
              ... From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ericj@leapmail.net Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:23 AM To:
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
                -----Original Message-----
                From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of ericj@...
                Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:23 AM
                To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [tmboptical] Re: Mars, Uranus, and deep-sky observations, May
                13th, 2005

                To me, listening
                to any wildlife while I am observing, owls, coyotes, wild turkeys, makes
                it a more interesting and memorable experience for me.

                WG: Thanks, Eric, and I wholly agree, except when it is one of those crazy
                cows trying to chase me off from my observing spot! :) Another spot I
                observe from often has an undefined piece of machinery running in the
                distance; we are not sure what it is, but we find the droning sound to be
                reassuring and relaxing.


                Therefore I did not find
                Donald's comments valid that somehow listening to owls or any other
                wildlife was somehow less interesting and memorable experience than
                listening to elephants:

                "Eric only gets to listen to owls hooting whilst observing? I had three
                years of elephants trumpeting when i was closing the observatory on the
                Tropic of Capricorn"

                WG: Maybe it is because I known Donald a bit better than most here, and
                know better his style in commenting that I see this more easily, but I can
                assure you that Donald's meaning was not to put down your experiences with
                owls, etc., as being "less interesting" or any such thought, but rather was
                just merely using your mention of animal experiences to also relate his own
                experience with the elephants.

                Maybe he could have been clearer about them not actually being on the loose,
                but I think it is really irrelevant to his intent; he was merely speaking
                to the unusual sensation of being inside an observatory dome with telescope
                in the early morning, and hearing the sounds of giant elephants trumpeting
                in the background at the same time!--- it would be a very unusual
                combination not often experienced by anyone. I think if you look again at
                his writing, you will see that he intended no other implication.

                Wayne
              • Tube Tim
                That was a nice observing report Eric and I should have thanked you for it early. A belated thanks. ... A year or two ago, while observing the November meteor
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
                  That was a nice observing report Eric and I should have thanked you
                  for it early. A belated thanks.

                  >

                  > To me, listening to any wildlife while I am observing, owls,
                  > coyotes, wild turkeys, makes it a more interesting and memorable
                  > experience for me.
                  >

                  A year or two ago, while observing the November meteor showers
                  (Leonids?) I was sitting in a lawn chair totally covered by a blanket
                  with only the top of my head showing. An owl with a wing span of
                  almost one meter came wooshing in within about 1 meter of taking my
                  head with him. I'm sure he thought I was a easy pickin's rabbit from
                  the back. By the time I knew what happened the danger was gone.


                  Tim
                • ej1847
                  Dear Wayne: Thank you for your email. While I understand you may have positive experiences with Donald, my experience has not been positive. In my experience,
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 3, 2005
                    Dear Wayne:

                    Thank you for your email. While I understand you may have positive
                    experiences with Donald, my experience has not been positive. In my
                    experience, and as you yourself have pointed out on this group
                    before, he feels the need to correct other people's posts that do not
                    measure up to his standard, as well as give flak to those who may
                    inadvertently make typo's. If he feels the need to do this than so be
                    it but I am not the only person to notice it, and it is not what
                    astronomy is about to me. For me it is about enjoying the night sky,
                    and sharing and helping others, not passing judgements on them.
                    Astronomy has always had a positive spiritual component to it for me,
                    so I have never understood why people would bring negativity to the
                    hobby.

                    In the paste couple of months I have been fortunate to be able to
                    observe with my TMB 105mm under clear skies in the early morning when
                    there is no traffic and only the sounds of nature. At times like this
                    it can be a very soulful moment that provides a sense of connection
                    between the Earth, nature, and the universe. I only wish I were
                    better able to express this sense of connection through my observing
                    reports.

                    In any event I feel the need to break a group for a while. At some
                    point in the future I may try to rejoin the group but if not, I wish
                    everyone clear and steady skies to use with their TMB equipment.

                    Goodbye,

                    Eric

                    > WG: Maybe it is because I known Donald a bit better than most
                    here, and
                    > know better his style in commenting that I see this more easily,
                    but I can
                    > assure you that Donald's meaning was not to put down your
                    experiences with
                    > owls, etc., as being "less interesting" or any such thought, but
                    rather was
                    > just merely using your mention of animal experiences to also relate
                    his own
                    > experience with the elephants.
                    >
                    > Maybe he could have been clearer about them not actually being on
                    the loose,
                    > but I think it is really irrelevant to his intent; he was merely
                    speaking
                    > to the unusual sensation of being inside an observatory dome with
                    telescope
                    > in the early morning, and hearing the sounds of giant elephants
                    trumpeting
                    > in the background at the same time!--- it would be a very unusual
                    > combination not often experienced by anyone. I think if you look
                    again at
                    > his writing, you will see that he intended no other implication.
                    >
                    > Wayne
                  • Wayne G
                    ... From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ej1847 Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:32 PM To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 3, 2005
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tmboptical@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of ej1847
                      Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:32 PM
                      To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [tmboptical] Re: Mars, Uranus, and deep-sky observations, May 13th,
                      2005



                      In the paste couple of months I have been fortunate to be able to
                      observe with my TMB 105mm under clear skies in the early morning when
                      there is no traffic and only the sounds of nature. At times like this
                      it can be a very soulful moment that provides a sense of connection
                      between the Earth, nature, and the universe. I only wish I were
                      better able to express this sense of connection through my observing
                      reports.

                      In any event I feel the need to break a group for a while. At some
                      point in the future I may try to rejoin the group but if not, I wish
                      everyone clear and steady skies to use with their TMB equipment.


                      WG: Hi Eric, I'm sorry you feel so strongly on this, as I valued your
                      participation here, so. I would hate to think that you are leaving the
                      group just because of a little post that I'm sure was not intended to be
                      taken as personally directed at you in any way, but obviously, your feelings
                      on the matter run much deeper.

                      That feeling of "connectedness" with the Earth, the sky and self is a
                      profound one that I myself have often experienced and tried to convey to
                      others in the past, albeit poorly, no doubt. It is perhaps the single thing
                      I most enjoy while observing.

                      It is a deeply moving thing to be alone late at night in the stillness and
                      calm of darkness watching the vaulted, glittering heavens turning above you;
                      seemingly unchanging and eternal, and yet still in motion and subtly
                      transient; vastly remote and yet as close as your own heartbeat--- you feel
                      a very deep connection between the shimmering globular cluster out in the
                      remote voids of Lynx and the tiny, insignificant cricket chirping at your
                      feet, as if they are all part of the same thing--- separate, yet somehow
                      one.

                      It suddenly gives the cricket real meaning and the man true perspective on
                      his real place within the Cosmos.

                      To those few of us lucky enough to be out there with our telescopes and
                      binoculars witnessing the miracle while all other "sane" people are tucked
                      away in their beds sleeping, oblivious and unaware of what they are missing,
                      have never seen and do not even suspect, there can often be an overwhelming
                      desire to shout loudly in the middle of the night: "HEY! WAKE UP AND SEE
                      WHAT YOU ARE MISSING!" :)

                      We are the few fortunate and privileged to have been allowed a tiny glimpse
                      into the greatness of life, and the vast, limitless creation which surrounds
                      us.

                      Take care,

                      Wayne
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