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Re: New APO

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  • digidodi
    When is this Austria starparty? I was talking about visual too :). In any case, you know me, I will do this test. I will invite Leo Aerts, one of the longtime
    Message 1 of 45 , Aug 3, 2004
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      When is this Austria starparty?

      I was talking about visual too :). In any case, you know me, I will
      do this test. I will invite Leo Aerts, one of the longtime and best
      visual observers walking around on this planet to join me. We called
      him "Eagle Eyed Leo" ;)

      Dodi

      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes"
      <apm_telescopes@w...> wrote:
      > Dodi
      >
      > we talked about visual only, for imaging I agree aperture wins.
      >
      > I dont know your experts, so if we want to make a bet, we have to
      observe together, so how about if you come with me to our austria
      starparty in september ? Then we can drink after the bet is over
      already the beer with no delay :-)
      >
      > Markus
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: digidodi
      > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:20 PM
      > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO
      >
      >
      > Hi Markus,
      >
      > You still owe me a bottle of Champagne for the previous bet with
      the
      > slightly misaligned TMB 80mm lens, remember, but if you want to
      bet
      > again ...
      >
      > Opinions should not agree each time on scopes. I know at least
      lots
      > of people who will agree with me too ;)
      >
      > Here's my bet: I will be having the 130 TMB soon hopefully. I
      have a
      > great 180mm Intes Micro Mak-Cas (1/10th wave), I have the
      possibility
      > to put them side by side on one mount. I bet the Intes-Mak will
      > outperform the 130 TMB on visual and webcam planetary work by a
      good
      > margin. For the visual I will invite some very skilled planetary
      > visual observers I know, and imaging I will do myself, processing
      > each image completely identical.
      >
      > For visual, the only objective way to come to a conclusion is a
      > drawing of a detailed region on Jupiter or Mars made by at least
      two
      > observers with both scopes. You just can't say "this looks more
      > contrasty". The question is, which shows more...
      >
      > How's that? Obviously we will have to wait till next year to get
      the
      > planets.
      >
      > PS. For the bystanders: this bet obviously has a hidden agenda.
      Now I
      > will be sure to get the best lens available. hehehe.
      >
      >
      > Dodi
      >
      >
      > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes"
      > <apm_telescopes@w...> wrote:
      > > Dodi
      > >
      > > your impression differs much from mine and others. I did the
      test
      > with Matthias and other critical observers in austria in the alps
      at
      > 1800 metter altitue and seeing 9/10 to 10/10 and super dark sky
      like
      > in dessert
      > >
      > > best wishes
      > > Markus
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: digidodi
      > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:45 AM
      > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Markus,
      > >
      > > We don't agree. No way it will show "far less". It could
      perhaps
      > show
      > > a little bit more, all things being equal (quality of optics,
      > tube
      > > baffling, enough cooldown time!!!).
      > >
      > > I have done many side by side comparisons between APO's and
      small
      > > (and large) obstruction quality mirror scopes and they are
      very
      > close
      > > by diameter, especially if the mirror scope has a small
      > obstruction.
      > > Even the best of the best, a 1993 AP 130 EDT got with a very
      very
      > > slight difference outperformed by a 6 inch Newton on Jupiter.
      The
      > EDT
      > > however showed what was visible in both scopes with a tad
      better
      > > contrast. I had them mounted side by side on an AP1200 mount
      > under
      > > good skies. A more recent test with an excellent Traveler
      side by
      > > side with a 5" Intes Micro M503 Mak-Cas showed that at same
      > > magnification with TMB monos, the Intes Micro showed a tiny
      > little
      > > bit more than the Traveler on Jupiter, with an overall darker
      > field.
      > > On deep-sky targets, the IM also showed the faintest stars a
      bit
      > > better, but not by much. So, I am forced to think that you
      should
      > > substract with quality optics and smaller central obstruction
      > about
      > > half to two thirds of the central obstruction to get the
      level of
      > a
      > > similar refractor. It's not a hard law, just my own
      experience
      > over
      > > the years. That is, with excellent seeing. If the seeing
      > degrades,
      > > the central obstruction will play a bit more of a destructive
      > role to
      > > the image as I noticed as well.
      > >
      > > APO refractors definitely have an edge on 100% image purity,
      > aperture
      > > per aperture, and they have the utmost advantage of offering
      the
      > > ultimate widefield imaging possibility, but one should set
      the
      > > expectations right if comparing them with other high quality
      > scopes.
      > > They will also perform better under less than ideal seeing
      > > conditions, offering better views than larger scopes, not by
      > virtue
      > > of being a refractor alone, but by having usually a smaller
      > diameter,
      > > usually much better baffling, faster cooldown - all things
      which
      > are
      > > at the advantage in average conditions.
      > >
      > > But ok, it's my opinion, no one says we have to agree on
      > everything ;)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Dodi
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "APM-Telescopes Markus
      Ludes"
      > > <apm_telescopes@w...> wrote:
      > > > no, the 715 will show more or less then the 130 , but will
      show
      > far
      > > less then then the TMB 152, we tested this under very dark
      > mountain
      > > skys last year
      > > >
      > > > markus
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: digidodi
      > > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:36 AM
      > > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > A 6 inch APO will show you on planets more or less the
      same
      > as
      > > the
      > > > IM. On deep-sky probably the IM will have a very slight
      > advantage.
      > > >
      > > > Dodi
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "rbyscaia"
      <rbyscaia@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > Hi,
      > > > >
      > > > > I was very happy with my I-M 715 DX (F/15 Mak) when
      > suddenly a
      > > 4"
      > > > > APO (a Taka FS-102) appeared in my way. I became so
      > satisfied
      > > with
      > > > > it that a started using it much more often than the
      Mak...
      > So,
      > > I
      > > > > finally decided to sell the FS-102 to move to a larger
      APO.
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, now my two options are:
      > > > >
      > > > > 1) Selling the I-M and buying the TMB 152 F/7.9 LW
      > > > >
      > > > > 2) Maintaining the I-M and buying the TMB 130 F/6 LW
      > > > >
      > > > > I am leaning forward to the option 2), based on the
      > portability
      > > of
      > > > > the 130, which is quite nice (I have a Giro...).
      However,
      > being
      > > the
      > > > > 152 a 6" w/ F/8 ratio, it should be better than the I-M
      and
      > the
      > > > > 130... visually, at least. And I do essentially visual
      work.
      > > > >
      > > > > My problem with the option 1) is that I may end
      to "need" a
      > > more
      > > > > portable scope to match with the 152...
      > > > >
      > > > > Is the 152 sooooo different from the 130???
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you.
      > > >
      > > >
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    • Tube Tim
      ... Yes, thanks. Tim
      Message 45 of 45 , Aug 6, 2004
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        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "digidodi" <ddierick@h...> wrote:
        > Hi Tim,
        >
        > Actually, it's the same chip as the ToUCam, but the monochrome
        > version. Here is a good pointer to start with:
        >
        > http://www.qcuiag.co.uk/
        >
        > Plenty of information!
        >

        Yes, thanks.


        Tim
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