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Re: [tmboptical] Re: New APO

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  • APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes
    Dodi we talked about visual only, for imaging I agree aperture wins. I dont know your experts, so if we want to make a bet, we have to observe together, so how
    Message 1 of 45 , Aug 3, 2004
      Dodi

      we talked about visual only, for imaging I agree aperture wins.

      I dont know your experts, so if we want to make a bet, we have to observe together, so how about if you come with me to our austria starparty in september ? Then we can drink after the bet is over already the beer with no delay :-)

      Markus
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: digidodi
      To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:20 PM
      Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO


      Hi Markus,

      You still owe me a bottle of Champagne for the previous bet with the
      slightly misaligned TMB 80mm lens, remember, but if you want to bet
      again ...

      Opinions should not agree each time on scopes. I know at least lots
      of people who will agree with me too ;)

      Here's my bet: I will be having the 130 TMB soon hopefully. I have a
      great 180mm Intes Micro Mak-Cas (1/10th wave), I have the possibility
      to put them side by side on one mount. I bet the Intes-Mak will
      outperform the 130 TMB on visual and webcam planetary work by a good
      margin. For the visual I will invite some very skilled planetary
      visual observers I know, and imaging I will do myself, processing
      each image completely identical.

      For visual, the only objective way to come to a conclusion is a
      drawing of a detailed region on Jupiter or Mars made by at least two
      observers with both scopes. You just can't say "this looks more
      contrasty". The question is, which shows more...

      How's that? Obviously we will have to wait till next year to get the
      planets.

      PS. For the bystanders: this bet obviously has a hidden agenda. Now I
      will be sure to get the best lens available. hehehe.


      Dodi


      --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes"
      <apm_telescopes@w...> wrote:
      > Dodi
      >
      > your impression differs much from mine and others. I did the test
      with Matthias and other critical observers in austria in the alps at
      1800 metter altitue and seeing 9/10 to 10/10 and super dark sky like
      in dessert
      >
      > best wishes
      > Markus
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: digidodi
      > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:45 AM
      > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO
      >
      >
      > Hi Markus,
      >
      > We don't agree. No way it will show "far less". It could perhaps
      show
      > a little bit more, all things being equal (quality of optics,
      tube
      > baffling, enough cooldown time!!!).
      >
      > I have done many side by side comparisons between APO's and small
      > (and large) obstruction quality mirror scopes and they are very
      close
      > by diameter, especially if the mirror scope has a small
      obstruction.
      > Even the best of the best, a 1993 AP 130 EDT got with a very very
      > slight difference outperformed by a 6 inch Newton on Jupiter. The
      EDT
      > however showed what was visible in both scopes with a tad better
      > contrast. I had them mounted side by side on an AP1200 mount
      under
      > good skies. A more recent test with an excellent Traveler side by
      > side with a 5" Intes Micro M503 Mak-Cas showed that at same
      > magnification with TMB monos, the Intes Micro showed a tiny
      little
      > bit more than the Traveler on Jupiter, with an overall darker
      field.
      > On deep-sky targets, the IM also showed the faintest stars a bit
      > better, but not by much. So, I am forced to think that you should
      > substract with quality optics and smaller central obstruction
      about
      > half to two thirds of the central obstruction to get the level of
      a
      > similar refractor. It's not a hard law, just my own experience
      over
      > the years. That is, with excellent seeing. If the seeing
      degrades,
      > the central obstruction will play a bit more of a destructive
      role to
      > the image as I noticed as well.
      >
      > APO refractors definitely have an edge on 100% image purity,
      aperture
      > per aperture, and they have the utmost advantage of offering the
      > ultimate widefield imaging possibility, but one should set the
      > expectations right if comparing them with other high quality
      scopes.
      > They will also perform better under less than ideal seeing
      > conditions, offering better views than larger scopes, not by
      virtue
      > of being a refractor alone, but by having usually a smaller
      diameter,
      > usually much better baffling, faster cooldown - all things which
      are
      > at the advantage in average conditions.
      >
      > But ok, it's my opinion, no one says we have to agree on
      everything ;)
      >
      >
      >
      > Dodi
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "APM-Telescopes Markus Ludes"
      > <apm_telescopes@w...> wrote:
      > > no, the 715 will show more or less then the 130 , but will show
      far
      > less then then the TMB 152, we tested this under very dark
      mountain
      > skys last year
      > >
      > > markus
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: digidodi
      > > To: tmboptical@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:36 AM
      > > Subject: [tmboptical] Re: New APO
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > A 6 inch APO will show you on planets more or less the same
      as
      > the
      > > IM. On deep-sky probably the IM will have a very slight
      advantage.
      > >
      > > Dodi
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "rbyscaia" <rbyscaia@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > I was very happy with my I-M 715 DX (F/15 Mak) when
      suddenly a
      > 4"
      > > > APO (a Taka FS-102) appeared in my way. I became so
      satisfied
      > with
      > > > it that a started using it much more often than the Mak...
      So,
      > I
      > > > finally decided to sell the FS-102 to move to a larger APO.
      > > >
      > > > Well, now my two options are:
      > > >
      > > > 1) Selling the I-M and buying the TMB 152 F/7.9 LW
      > > >
      > > > 2) Maintaining the I-M and buying the TMB 130 F/6 LW
      > > >
      > > > I am leaning forward to the option 2), based on the
      portability
      > of
      > > > the 130, which is quite nice (I have a Giro...). However,
      being
      > the
      > > > 152 a 6" w/ F/8 ratio, it should be better than the I-M and
      the
      > > > 130... visually, at least. And I do essentially visual work.
      > > >
      > > > My problem with the option 1) is that I may end to "need" a
      > more
      > > > portable scope to match with the 152...
      > > >
      > > > Is the 152 sooooo different from the 130???
      > > >
      > > > Thank you.
      > >
      > >
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    • Tube Tim
      ... Yes, thanks. Tim
      Message 45 of 45 , Aug 6, 2004
        --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "digidodi" <ddierick@h...> wrote:
        > Hi Tim,
        >
        > Actually, it's the same chip as the ToUCam, but the monochrome
        > version. Here is a good pointer to start with:
        >
        > http://www.qcuiag.co.uk/
        >
        > Plenty of information!
        >

        Yes, thanks.


        Tim
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