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fairtax bill?

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  • Klaus Becker
    For those interested go to the article There is No Such Thing as a Fair Tax by Laurence Vance, located at http://www.mises.org/story/1975. This is a cogent
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 26, 2005
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      For those interested go to the article "There is No Such Thing as a Fair Tax" by Laurence Vance, located at
      http://www.mises.org/story/1975. This is a cogent argument against the so-called crack-pot "Fair Tax" idiocy being advocated by Neal Boortz, Congressman John Linder, and the "FairTax" subversive group. (I think you can tell where I stand on this matter.)
      Klaus Becker

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: wayne
      To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] fairtax bill?


      Perhaps this proposal should be perused for what it says rather than 'how it sounds'. Please reconcile the items highlighted in blue with those in red in the first paragraph.
      Marshall Magill wrote:
    • Signature Graphics printing
      Hello, I am in the process of getting one, call me at 512 237 4594 and I ll let you know what I m doing. john CCDude wrote: Allodial
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 26, 2005
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        Hello, I am in the process of getting one, call me at 512 237 4594 and I'll let you know what I'm doing. john

        CCDude <ccdude@...> wrote:
        Allodial title to land:

        Please forward any information re: Allodial title to land...
        If any of you have successfully obtained an allodial/freehold title, please
        contact me- I need your help.

        Bob Miller





      • Robert T. Wooster, Sr.
        John: Sorry, not busting in, but I am researching just what is - Allodial title to land? In my particular situation, I inherited a house and property from
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 26, 2005
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          John:
              Sorry, not busting in, but I am researching "just what is" - Allodial title to land?   
              In my particular situation, I 'inherited' a house and property from my late Mother.  This all happened in 2000.  In Feb of 2003, I was to find out that she deferred the "County" and Fort Davis ISD" taxes.   Can doing something like this - help me, sorry - just trying to get educated.... Thanks.. Rob
           
          Robert T. Wooster, Sr.
          P.O. Box 916
          5 Delores Mountain Trail
          Fort Davis, TX 79734
          E-mail: rngrbird@...
          H # 432-426-3090
          C # 432-249-0030
          Fax # 432-426-3090 Auto answer after 4th ring.
          "The Constitution is not an instrument for government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
          IF You're Not Living On The Edge, You're Taking Up Too Much Room.
          "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 07:18 PM
          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Allodial title to land

          Hello, I am in the process of getting one, call me at 512 237 4594 and I'll let you know what I'm doing. john

          CCDude <ccdude@...> wrote:
          Allodial title to land:

          Please forward any information re: Allodial title to land...
          If any of you have successfully obtained an allodial/freehold title, please
          contact me- I need your help.

          Bob Miller





        • Marshall Magill
          The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement .... This is saying that the
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 26, 2005
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            The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement".... This is saying that the 23% sales tax will replace dollar for dollar what the current system brings in.(Which) allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks. Nothing is deducted from their payroll checks. The same 23% is (supposed) to fully fund the rest of what is deemed as obligations for the Federal Government.
             
            The question is can they do all they say at 23% and for how long? I doubt very seriously the chances for this Bill to pass because they already refuse to fund the Federal gov. by duties,imposts and tariffs. Then why would they want to limit themselves to a 23% ceiling? Thanks for responding, both you and Dan. Each of you make valid and compelling points. 
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: wayne
            Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] fairtax bill?

            Perhaps this proposal should be perused for what it says rather than 'how it sounds'.

            Please reconcile the items highlighted in blue with those in red in the first paragraph.

            Marshall Magill wrote:

            This actually does not sound to bad (imho). Anyone see any possible negatives in this proposal?
            Thumbnail sketch of the FairTax
            a comprehensive plan to replace income and payroll taxes

            The FairTax proposal is a comprehensive plan to replace federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security/Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement, and a rebate to ensure that no American pays such federal taxes up to the poverty level. Included in the FairTax plan is the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. The FairTax allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks (minus any state income taxes), ends corporate taxes and compliance costs hidden in the retail cost of goods and services, and fully funds the federal government while fulfilling the promise of Social Security and Medicare.
             

            Seems that simply turning all paychecks over to gummit and allowing them to return what they feel would be adequate for subsistence is way more efficient and would allow us to concentrate upon being good little slaves and avoid distractions like pondering motives and effects......
          • Advancepum@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/26/2005 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... I disagree to the point that a federal sales tax is far superior to what is in place now.
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 26, 2005
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              In a message dated 12/26/2005 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, klaus@... writes:

              "There is No Such Thing as a Fair Tax"


              I disagree to the point that a federal sales tax is far superior to what is in place now. The need for these taxes are because of the illegal expenditures of the federal government, such as welfare, and all the things that the federal government is doing that it has no authority to do. The constitution gives it only so much authority and the rest goes to the states and the people.
              In the first place it would make our exports much cheaper by about 25% to 1/3 thus improving our economy by the most amount that it has ever been before. (there would not be any tax on the goods that are exported as there is now. The rest of the world for the most part has this kind of system and that is the reason for our low exporting ability) Therefore it would stop the exporting of jobs out of our country and bring a lot of the already exported jobs back to our country.
              Another thing that it would do is to get rid of the IRS which is the most abusive, illegal, criminal organization in the country. This includes the syndicate. Except for the dope running part which is about on a power with the IRS.
              To sum it up: this and the elimination of the "federal reserve" would make such an economic boom such as we have never seen before. We would be out of debt as a country in no time if we could do these two things..
              Chicago Paul
            • gary
              The so called Fair Tax is a nightmare we would have a very difficult time waking up from. It all sounds very good on the surface but if you dig into it, it
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 27, 2005
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                The so called "Fair Tax" is a nightmare we would have a very difficult time waking up from.  It all sounds very good on the surface but if you dig into it, it gets ugly.
                 
                It say the mean old IRS will be eliminated.  Who do you think is going to make sure all those merchants are collecting the 23%, filing the required forms and paying the money?  Who is going to be checking on the people claiming their exemptions so they can get their monthly rebate?  Who is going to make sure employers are  properly reporting how much you make?  Just maybe those functions would be handled by the former IRS, no doubt in the same manner that they now collect income tax.
                 
                It says that employers will be reporting income to SS so SS will know what your wages are and can credit your SS "account" with the correct earnings.  How will the self employed get their SS credits?  Maybe by having to fill out another income tax like form and submit it to the government who then has to have some way to verify what the self employed claim as income.  Maybe there would still be a few leftover IRS people to handle that.
                 
                It says state income taxes can remain in place but, all state income taxes are based on what you file for federal income taxes so, all the states with income taxes will have to either rewrite all their income tax laws or institute enough state sales tax to cover that amount, sounds like fun to me.
                 
                Of course, you get to keep 100% of your paycheck and that's a good thing since you will be paying a minimum of 23% more for EVERYTHING, food, clothing, doctors, medicine, gas, oil, electric, cars, homes vacations, college tuition, meals in restaurants, movies, internet, etc., etc., etc.
                 
                If anyone things that there will be a big drop in prices of things, I think they are dreaming.  The corporations will just be very happy with the increased profits.
                 
                The provision of no tax on used items is a good one, I wonder if that includes homes?
                 
                The only real upside I see with the so called "fair tax" is that it would make the US a tax haven for outside investments.
                 
                Gary
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:35 AM
                Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] fairtax bill?

                 This actually does not sound to bad (imho). Anyone see any possible negatives in this proposal?
                 
                 
                Thumbnail sketch of the FairTax
                a comprehensive plan to replace income and payroll taxes

                The FairTax proposal is a comprehensive plan to replace federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security/Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement, and a rebate to ensure that no American pays such federal taxes up to the poverty level. Included in the FairTax plan is the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. The FairTax allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks (minus any state income taxes), ends corporate taxes and compliance costs hidden in the retail cost of goods and services, and fully funds the federal government while fulfilling the promise of Social Security and Medicare.

                 

              • Tim
                The only thing good about the fairtax plan is the ability to control where you may pay your 23%. That is it..and that is not much. The rest is a horror
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 27, 2005
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                  The only thing good about the "fairtax" plan is the ability to control where you may pay your 23%.  That is it..and that is not much.

                  The rest is a horror story.

                  Tim

                  gary wrote:
                  The so called "Fair Tax" is a nightmare we would have a very difficult time waking up from.  It all sounds very good on the surface but if you dig into it, it gets ugly.
                   
                  It say the mean old IRS will be eliminated.  Who do you think is going to make sure all those merchants are collecting the 23%, filing the required forms and paying the money?  Who is going to be checking on the people claiming their exemptions so they can get their monthly rebate?  Who is going to make sure employers are  properly reporting how much you make?  Just maybe those functions would be handled by the former IRS, no doubt in the same manner that they now collect income tax.
                   

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