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Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Traffic Ticket Possible angles and downfalls with UCC

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  • Advancepum@aol.com
    Speeking of the constitution, If the inditement says the people of the state of _____ the court that they have you in has no jurisdiction in the case. Article.
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 26, 2005
      Speeking of the constitution, If the inditement says the people of the state of _____
      the court that they have you in has no jurisdiction in the case.
      Article. III.  of the Constitution of the united States of America
      Section. 1.
      The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
      Section. 2.
      Clause 1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State; (See Note 10)--between Citizens of different States, --between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
      Clause 2:
      In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
      Clause 3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.



      We've seen this "quazi-criminal" crap, as well.  In our observations, what they're doing is
      allowing a municipality to proceed *civilly* for *criminal* charges, thereby bypassing the
      defendant's criminal rights (grand jury indictment, right not to testify against oneself, etc.) 
      This is blatantly unconstitutioinal - there are no constitutional provisions (either state or
      federal) for "quazi-criminal" - or as they also call it, "hybrid civil/criminal" - cases.

      Anyone up for joining us to challenge the constitutionality of this one?


    • pefra4@bellsouth.net
      pefra4@bellsouth.net this is what they are doing at the city of forest park and clayton cty ga planing zoning code enforcement and enviromental courts
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 27, 2005
        pefra4@... this is what they are doing at the city of forest park and clayton cty ga planing zoning code enforcement and enviromental courts i am a disabled viet nam combat veteran and after many years of being legally shafted i started reading the websites on property rights constitutional and all related sites i have spent a lot of money defending my rights in their kangeroo courts here but after reading the info on the websites i have the info and knowing i amnot alone in the struggle on our uninalieniable and constitutional rights our founding fathers established for us i am willing help in the cause of freedom and a limited constitutional government and the free exercise of all our rights and welcome any info and or direction concerning freedom and liberty what price is freedom worth ? its priceless ! frank
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Advancepum@...
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Traffic Ticket Possible angles and downfalls with UCC


        Speeking of the constitution, If the inditement says the people of the state of _____
        the court that they have you in has no jurisdiction in the case.
        Article. III. of the Constitution of the united States of America
      • Sherrill Parnell
        ... pefra4@bellsouth.net this is what they are doing at the city of forest park and clayton cty ga planing zoning code enforcement and enviromental courts i am
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 27, 2005
          --- pefra4@... wrote:

          pefra4@... this is what they are doing at the city of forest park and clayton cty ga planing zoning code enforcement and enviromental courts i am a disabled viet nam combat veteran and after many years of being legally shafted i started reading the websites on property rights constitutional and all related sites i have spent a lot of money defending my rights in their kangeroo courts here but after reading the info on the websites i have the info and knowing i amnot alone in the struggle on our uninalieniable and constitutional rights our founding fathers established for us i am willing help in the cause of freedom and a limited constitutional
          government and the free exercise of all our rights and welcome any info and or direction concerning freedom and liberty what price is freedom worth ? its priceless ! frank

          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Advancepum@...
          > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:45 PM
          > Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Traffic Ticket Possible angles and downfalls with UCC
          >
          >
          > Speeking of the constitution, If the inditement says the people of the state of _____
          > the court that they have you in has no jurisdiction in the case.
          > Article. III. of the Constitution of the united States of America
          > Hi! My name is Sherrill W. Parnell, I'm also a vietnam vet. I love my country and its
          people, they are all our people. And when the so called United States government can tell you
          what to do and when to do it. Without any regard to what your beliefs are? When is it going to
          stop? The irs, is a prime example, they don't have the right to take out money out of your check,
          just because they want it and do not want to earn it themselves. When is it going to stop?????
          We are people of our Father in Heaven, not of men on earth. They only think that they have the
          law, and in realty, they don't have any power at all. Only, if we let them have it!!!!! And I
          will go to my grave believing that. Hope to hear from you real soon!!!!!
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Christopher Dilts
          Hello Do not mean to offend but yes quasi criminal is defined in Illinois the quote below comes from Chicago, R.I. & P. Ry. Co. v. Town of Calumet 1893 WL 2171
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 4, 2005

            Hello

            Do not mean to offend but yes quasi criminal is defined in Illinois the quote below comes from Chicago, R.I. & P. Ry. Co. v. Town of Calumet 1893 WL 2171 which is positive case law. Almost everything is defined in the law either in case law or statute.


            Civil cases are of two kinds--those purely civil and those quasi criminal. A quasi criminal case is not a criminal case nearly like a civil case; it is a civil case somewhat resembling, in its nature, a criminal case. That a quasi criminal case is not a criminal offense as defined by the criminal code, is made plain by the cases of Wiggins v. City, 68 Ill. 375; Tully v. Northfield, 6 Brad. 356; and Berkowitz v. Lester, 121 Ill. 99 (113, 114).
            That a case may be civil in form and quasi criminal
            in nature, is established by Baldwin v. City, 68 Ill. 418; Town of Greenfield v. Mook, 12 Brad. 281.


            From: Advancepum@...
            Reply-To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Traffic Ticket Possible angles and downfalls with UCC
            Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:05:24 EDT

            Traffic Tickets are "Quazi-Criminal"  Which is realy not defined, in Illinois law at least . So they must either give you all of the rights afforded to a criminal charge or handle it as Civil. there is no other choice.
            While thinking of it, the Constitution says that any tin any case where a state shall be a party, that the Origional jurisdiction is the Supreme Court. (Art lll Section 2, Clause 2:) I think that this should also include  "the people of the state of _______" after all the people are the state. any way when ever I bring this into the mix it causes a big "hula baloo"
            Clause 2:
            In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
            Paul

            Hope this not offend anyone but I know I have seen court cases stating that the uniform commericial code does not apply to tickets unless State clearly regards it traffic violations as civil infractions or ticket states on it it is commerical (For example I have see Michigan tickets for Dot violations that clearly state commerical instrument on it and in Washingtion their traffic offenses are pruely civil which the UCC should apply in threoy) I think that one of the problems with the whole UCC argument and the like and why it works some times and not others is based simplely on the State. In Iowa and Illinois traffic offenses are still considered quasi criminal (bear with me I am awear that there is only suppose to me 4 different types of jurisdicitions) not actaully civil or commericial offenses.





            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS





          • Frog Farmer
            ... The way to beat this is to not go along with it, and thereby grant it legitimacy. But people tend to choose it when offered the alternative, which is to
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 10, 2005
              On Sep 26, 2005, at 6:48 AM, realjethro wrote:

              > We've seen this "quazi-criminal" crap, as well. In our observations,
              > what they're doing is
              > allowing a municipality to proceed *civilly* for *criminal* charges,
              > thereby bypassing the
              > defendant's criminal rights (grand jury indictment, right not to
              > testify against oneself, etc.)
              > This is blatantly unconstitutioinal - there are no constitutional
              > provisions (either state or
              > federal) for "quazi-criminal" - or as they also call it, "hybrid
              > civil/criminal" - cases.
              >
              > Anyone up for joining us to challenge the constitutionality of this
              > one?

              The way to beat this is to not go along with it, and thereby grant it
              legitimacy. But people tend to choose it when offered the alternative,
              which is to insist on a criminal prosecution with all attendant rights,
              that is, if you are foolish enough to insist (or even ask) that anyone
              do anything. I like to disqualify everybody so there's nobody left to
              do anything. But a lot of people want to be prosecuted so they can try
              out some new theory, and so they grant jurisdiction for one reason or
              another. Go figure. I don't see any reason to join anyone to
              challenge the constitutionality of it. It's voluntary participation
              here in California. They call "quasi-criminal" cases "infractions",
              and they have two separate processes, one for them, and one for purely
              criminal prosecutions where you have all your rights. You have to read
              the law and demand one of those, otherwise you'll be treated as a
              normal incompetent. People choose the former, with all the attendant
              rights waivers, for convenience and expedience.

              I don't know about any other state, but here a reading of the law makes
              it plain. It's just that nobody reads it, and nobody has a duty to
              hand-select parts they think you ought to know about! "It's ALLLLLLL
              Goooood"!

              > --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Advancepum@a... wrote:
              >> Traffic Tickets are "Quazi-Criminal" Which is realy not defined, in
              >> Illinois
              >> law at least

              I had to leave Illinois because it was too much of a police state for
              me (and too flat). I used to deliver pizza in the NW Chicago suburbs,
              and pairs of detective cars would try to follow me on deliveries.
              Between trips, and whenever I lost them, they came in to eat pizza, but
              when I got up to go, so did they. We all had fun. Once I took them 90
              miles away and lost them. Beat them home by hours. One unusual day
              I was traffic stopped a total of 13 times, but was not ticketed. That
              was long before I knew anything about law.
            • southlodge
              I like to disqualify everybody so there s nobody left to do anything. Frog Farmer I m the same way, Froggy. Let them use their own energy against
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 12, 2005
                " I like to disqualify everybody so there's nobody left to
                do anything. " Frog Farmer

                I'm the same way, Froggy. Let them use their own energy against themselves,
                and when they're tangled up enough, watch them try to wriggle out.

                Much less tiring for us, and it almost ranks as entertainment! ;-)
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