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Re: State says have to have SSN to work

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  • Libertarian Lines
    ... etc ... The problem isn t with the IRS, that s easy enough to avoid. The problem is with a state employment agency. It s called the New Hire program, I
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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      > From: Bob law <saveyourpay@...>
      > Subject: Re: State says have to have SSN to work
      >
      > --- Libertarian Lines <liblines@...> wrote:
      >
      > > (NH... has said you must have an SSN to work. It's all tied in to
      > > unemployment taxes, checking for welfare fraud, immigration status,
      etc
      > > etc etc. That if an employre does not provide a number for an
      > > employee or independent contractor they will be fined.
      >
      > [This is true if the employee has an SSN. If they do
      > not have one then they can provide an affidavit of
      > fact to the employer who in turn will send it to the
      > IRS and the employer will not be fined under this
      > provision. Also, all an employer has to do is ask, and
      > if the employee does not give them one all the
      > employer has to do is sign off on an affidavit saying
      > they asked and non was provided and again can avoid
      > any fines under this provision. See 26 USC §§3402
      > and/or 3403 for verification if memory serves me.]

      The problem isn't with the IRS, that's easy enough to avoid. The problem
      is with a state employment agency. It's called the New Hire program, I
      believe many states have them.

      The info from the NHES office is that you need an SSN to work. Period.




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    • Bob law
      ... I would then naively go into their office and ask for a copy of the code section or public law which makes the SSN mandatory? If they can t produce it,
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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        >
        > The info from the NHES office is that you need an
        > SSN to work. Period.
        >
        I would then naively go into their office and ask for
        a copy of the code section or public law which makes
        the SSN mandatory? If they can't produce it, then ask
        to see their supervisor and suggest that they not make
        claims unsupported in law. I believe it is a felony to
        compell disclosure without a regulatory requirement.
        See 42 USC § 408(8) for verification and parameters of
        same. If the regulation didn't exist prior to Jan,
        1-1974, then they have no authority unless that
        section has since been modified by amendment. If the
        above turns out to be true in your estimation, then
        consider what one needs to do to support and defend
        their rights under the law; as they appear to be
        trying to deprive you of your rights under color of
        law which is also a felony under Title 18(deprivation
        of rights under color of law).
        Respectfully,
        Bob L.



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      • jrarcherone
        I have a related question. The state of North Carolina has passed a law stating that anyone who gets a license to drive in North Carolina must present a SSN.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 3, 2005
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          I have a related question. The state of North Carolina has passed a
          law stating that anyone who gets a license to drive in North
          Carolina must present a SSN. They have a copy of the statute posted
          at the DMV. According to them it is a State granted Priviledge to
          drive! My question is this; what steps should I take to get a
          license without having a SSN attached?

          Jim A --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Bob law
          <saveyourpay@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > >
          > > The info from the NHES office is that you need an
          > > SSN to work. Period.
          > >
          > I would then naively go into their office and ask for
        • falconfield
          The question is why would you get a driver’s license anyway? Isn’t a driver’ s license for those operating a “motor vehicle”? Isn’t a motor vehicle
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 3, 2005
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            The question is why would you get a driver’s license anyway? Isn’t a driver’s license for those operating a “motor vehicle”? Isn’t a motor vehicle a vehicle used for profit or hire? Does one get paid to use the family car or truck to get to and from work? Does someone make a profit from getting the groceries from the store to the refrigerator at home?  Wasn’t it the legislative intent of the legislators to regulate the privilege of operating a motor vehicle because a business has no god given rights to use the public right of way? Why isn’t it called the public’s privilege of way? Forget about the SS number issue look into the issue of who is the person required to obtain a driver’s license in the first place. The right of locomotion is a birthright, why does the State think that it has the power to regulate and control our movement in the family auto or truck?

             

            George  

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of jrarcherone
            Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:24 PM
            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: State says have to have SSN to work

             

            I have a related question. The state of North Carolina has passed a
            law stating that anyone who gets a license to drive in North
            Carolina must present a SSN. They have a copy of the statute posted
            at the DMV. According to them it is a State granted Priviledge to
            drive! My question is this; what steps should I take to get a
            license without having a SSN attached?

            Jim A --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Bob law
            <saveyourpay@y...>
            wrote:

            >
            >
            > >
            > > The info from the NHES office is that you need an
            > > SSN to work. Period.
            > >
            > I would then naively go into their office and ask for



          • james archer
            I agree with you in every detail, George. But I don t have time enough to spend huge amounts of time trying to explain it to the police, and the courts and
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 3, 2005
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              I agree with you in every detail, George. But I don't have time enough to spend huge amounts of time trying to explain it to the police, and the courts and getting hasseled every time I try to exercise my rights to move about using a car. I have chosen to spen those exciting moments fighting a different parasite with the initials IRS. So why can't there be a legal recourse to having to show the SSN/ID? As there is no law that requires it. If these people have made a law that does require it, it there a way to get it stricken as illegal?

              Jim A

              falconfield <falconfield@...> wrote:


              v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
              The question is why would you get a driver’s license anyway? Isn’t a driver’s license for those operating a “motor vehicle”? Isn’t a motor vehicle a vehicle used for profit or hire? Does one get paid
            • rw fields
              Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:01:58 -0400 From: falconfield Subject: RE: Re: State says have to have SSN to work The question is why
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 4, 2005
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                Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:01:58 -0400
                   From: "falconfield" <falconfield@...>
                Subject: RE: Re: State says have to have SSN to work

                 

                The question is why would you get a driver�s license anyway? Isn�t a
                driver�s license for those operating a �motor vehicle�? ####

                 

                ONE MIGHT WANT TO DO A LITTLE DRIVING AT TIMES, FOR HIRE OR FOR A NEIGHBOUR.
                DRIVING PAYS PRETTY GOOD IF ONE NEEDS WORK. I�VE HEARD ONE FIFTY A DAY PLUS EXPENSES.

                ONE CAN ALWAYS PUT without prejudice 1-308 or an asterisk w/after the signature.

                Then seems the license would be valid for all occasions,  IF ONE GETS THE REAL THING, COMMERCIAL LICENSE.


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              • tthor.geo
                Are you currently BEING PAID to drive some employer s motor vehicle ? Do you plan on getting a job where you are going to be PAID for driving some
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 4, 2005
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                  Are you currently BEING PAID to 'drive' some employer's 'motor vehicle'?
                  Do you plan on getting a job where you are going to be PAID for
                  driving some employer's 'motor vehicle'?

                  If NOT, why would you need or want a 'driver license'?

                  "jrarcherone" <arch5511@b...> wrote:
                  > I have a related question. The state of North Carolina has passed a
                  > law stating that anyone who gets a license to drive in North
                  > Carolina must present a SSN. They have a copy of the statute posted
                  > at the DMV. According to them it is a State granted Priviledge to
                  > drive! My question is this; what steps should I take to get a
                  > license without having a SSN attached?
                • hobot
                  You and I know its a money control scam and w/o one its a garantee extra fight risk at any stop, or so I ve found sans one over a decade now but wonder what
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 4, 2005
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                    You and I know its a money control scam and w/o one
                    its a garantee extra fight risk at any stop, or
                    so I've found sans one over a decade now but
                    wonder what the terms will be like now that REAL ID
                    was passed by 'our' representives? Will runing
                    w/o RID be instant terrorist charges?

                    hobot


                    "tthor.geo" wrote:
                    >
                    > Are you currently BEING PAID to 'drive' some employer's 'motor
                    > vehicle'?
                    > Do you plan on getting a job where you are going to be PAID for
                    > driving some employer's 'motor vehicle'?
                    >
                    > If NOT, why would you need or want a 'driver license'?
                  • james archer
                    Thanks for that response-I will check it out. It s the most practical advice I ve gotten so far. I appreciate all who have responded. Good comments all.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 6, 2005
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                      Thanks for that response-I will check it out. It's the most practical advice I've gotten so far. I appreciate all who have responded. Good comments all.
                       
                      Sincerely, Jim A

                      rw fields <rwfs68@...> wrote:


                      Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:01:58 -0400
                         From: "falconfield" <falconfield@...>
                      Subject: RE: Re: State says have to have SSN to work

                       

                      The question is why would you get a driver’s license anyway? Isn’t a
                      driver’s license for those operating a “motor vehicle”? ####

                       

                      ONE MIGHT WANT TO DO A LITTLE DRIVING AT TIMES, FOR HIRE OR FOR A NEIGHBOUR.
                      DRIVING PAYS PRETTY GOOD IF ONE NEEDS WORK. I’VE HEARD ONE FIFTY A DAY PLUS EXPENSES.

                      ONE CAN ALWAYS PUT without prejudice 1-308 or an asterisk w/after the signature.

                      Then seems the license would be valid for all occasions,  IF ONE GETS THE REAL THING, COMMERCIAL LICENSE.


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                    • paradoxmagnus
                      The following section originally was part of the Privacy Act but was not codified; it may be found at § 552a (note). Sec. 7(a) (1) It shall be unlawful for
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 6, 2005
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                        The following section originally was part of the Privacy Act but was
                        not codified; it may be found at § 552a (note).

                        Sec. 7(a) (1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local
                        government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or
                        privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to
                        disclose his social security account number.

                        (2) the provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not
                        apply with respect to--

                        (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or

                        (B) any disclosure of a social security number to any Federal,
                        State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence
                        and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was
                        required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to
                        verify the identity of an individual.

                        (b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an
                        individual to disclose his social security account number shall
                        inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or
                        voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is
                        solicited, and what uses will be made of it.

                        http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/privstat.htm

                        --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, james archer
                        <jrarcherone@y...> wrote:
                        > I agree with you in every detail, George. But I don't have time
                        enough to spend huge amounts of time trying to explain it to the
                        police, and the courts and getting hasseled every time I try to
                        exercise my rights to move about using a car. I have chosen to spen
                        those exciting moments fighting a different parasite with the
                        initials IRS. So why can't there be a legal recourse to having to
                        show the SSN/ID? As there is no law that requires it. If these
                        people have made a law that does require it, it there a way to get
                        it stricken as illegal?
                        >
                        > Jim A
                        >
                        > falconfield <falconfield@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url
                        (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                        {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
                        > The question is why would you get a driver's license anyway? Isn't
                        a driver's license for those operating a "motor vehicle"? Isn't a
                        motor vehicle a vehicle used for profit or hire? Does one get paid
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