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Re: [tips_and_tricks] just starting out

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  • WW011@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/1/2005 6:59:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... I agree but if you dont promise (on a complaint) via signature, they will take you to jail on
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1, 2005
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      In a message dated 4/1/2005 6:59:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, frogfrmr@... writes:


      Don't promise to appear


      I agree but if you dont promise (on a complaint) via signature, they will take you to jail on the spot
    • Frog Farmer
      ... Maybe. It would have to be an arrestable offense. And isn t it better to suffer a little inconvenience and minimize a case s lost time and deny them
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 2, 2005
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        On Apr 1, 2005, at 9:55 PM, WW011@... wrote:

        > In a message dated 4/1/2005 6:59:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        > frogfrmr@... writes:
        > Don't promise to appear
        >
        > I agree but if you dont promise (on a complaint) via signature, they
        > will take you to jail on the spot
        >

        Maybe. It would have to be an arrestable offense. And isn't it
        better to suffer a little inconvenience and minimize a case's lost time
        and deny them something that can be used as a complaint later, in a
        case where they won't be able to produce a real complaint without your
        cooperation? Besides, that's a great way to get the impersonator to
        the jail without having to disarm and cuff him. And how would you
        later "undo" your choice to provide them with something they can use as
        a complaint by a rights-waiver? It would probably take more time with
        less chance of being successful.

        Ask yourself, in a mutual citizen's arrest, who is empowered to release
        the accused? And when? Do you think it is up to the jailer??
        Is the jailer in possession of firsthand knowledge that your charges
        are baseless? He would have to have personal knowledge of the
        existence of the signed and filed oath that your accused failed to
        create. If he lets your accused go free, and jails you based upon the
        belief that your accused indeed has the required oath of office, then
        he becomes a co-conspirator, aider and abettor, and when he gets to
        court he finds that he too is an impersonator without the required
        oath. Does he have a nice home, wife and kids? He may not in a few
        years! I sometimes ask, "will your wife and kids stay with you if you
        lose your home over this?" One "sargeant" chose to sell his house and
        move his family to Florida before my trial was dismissed for lack of a
        witness.

        What one really has to do is communicate a number of realities before
        the perp has a chance to start writing, such as, "neighbor, I won't be
        signing anything for you, and will arrest you for any crime committed
        in my presence. I know that you do not have the required oath of
        office on file (here, see if yours is in this folder...), and therefore
        are not an officer as you claim, making any such claim a crime of
        impersonation of an officer. Before you act in haste, would you like
        to discuss it over a cup of coffee and a donut, or would you like to
        part now, wishing each other a nice day?" If he gets to the point
        where pertinent information is already going down on his paper, then
        one has failed to object timely to his investigation, and one has
        probably cooperated by providing information to one with no authority
        to demand it, in other words, one has already waived rights. I'm
        speaking for my locale (California) only at this point, as I do not
        research every possible locale's situation. But here, with none but
        impersonators to deal with, I like to remind the perp that his crime of
        impersonation garners a more severe sentence than does the traffic
        infraction of which he accuses me.

        Ask yourself, "what are the odds this perp will continue after I've
        handed him a constructive notice?" I've heard, "have a nice day!"
        (three times) more than I've heard, "you're under arrest!" (zero
        times).
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