Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Nation defined - not the same as 'government' Re: Digest Number 674

Expand Messages
  • Ed
    ... nilbux: You will not find nation in the Declaration of independence or in the Constitution but you will find union in the preamble to the Constitution.
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 31 5:29 AM
      
      > This document (DOI) established ONE Nation of People.

           nilbux:
          You will not find "nation" in the Declaration of independence
          or in the Constitution but you will find "union" in the preamble
          to the Constitution.
      -------------------------------------------------------
       
      Our Preamble begins with "WE THE PEOPLE of the United States"
       
      There are now many dictionaries accessable online. I suggest utilizing them. A 'Nation' is defined as a group of people that share a common characteristic. It has NOTHING to do with 'government'. Government is distinct from Nation.
       
      Most Nations are defined by a common language or religion. You will see that most countries (Lands) in the world are defined by a geographic boundary encompasing people who share a langauge, or a religion, or other distinct characteristics that is common among the people within that boundary. They then develope a government for that land.
       
      The ONLY common characteristic shared by the people in this New Land (the people of the United States) is found in our Declaration of Independence. [the Only common characteristic among the people of the Soviet Union was the Communist Manifesto]
       
      It 'defined' us as a 'people' and united us under a cause. The 'American Cause' is our ONLY 'common characteristic' and it is set forth in the first two paragraphs of the Legal Document we know as the Declaration of Independence.
       
      While the first two paragraphs 'defined' us as a people - It also established what is the 'LAW OF THE LAND'.
       
      Therefore - I say that our Declaration of Law established a 'Nation' of People United, by a Cause'. It 'Constituted' a People AND set forth the purpose of government(s) for this Land. THIS is our original 'Constitution' as it remains our 'Constitution' supreme to our Federal Constitution, and any Constitutions of any our States.
       
      "TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS governments are instituted among men deriving their just (limited) powers by consent of the governed" 
       
      THIS is what our founders 'intended', and stated, in Plain Language that all but ignorant confederates, or the Royalist with the Loyalist who support them, are able to understand. Whether or not the founders utilized the word 'Nation' in this, our original legal document, is immaterial and irrelevant. Their 'intent' is easy to discern. They were creating a 'NATION' of PATRIOTS.
       
      State Governments, that act contrary to the MANDATE of our Declaration of Independence (including the mandate that 'ALL MEN (human beings) ARE CREATED EQUAL) are NOT legitimate governments in this Land.
       
      It clearly imlies, for those that do not see it in the specific words, that the Individual Human Being is 'SOVEREIGN' but EQUAL in Legal Rights to all others. NOT 'equal' right to 'equal' property but EQUAL in right to 'own', as in have title, to property, and this Equal entitlement is, as well, to Equal Rights, political, social, economic, as "unalienable", and the duty of ALL government, federal included, is to 'secure' and 'protect' these against all including other governents within the union of a UNITED people.  
       
      Confederate rhetoric fails the test of logic and reason. It has no basis in historical fact.
       
      Your definition of the word 'Nation' is contary to any historic, or present, definition of the word. Your argument will NOT enable you to 'Secure these Rights' - YOUR rights, made certain by enumeration in Constitutions, either Federal and State.
       
      It appears you want a government that takes Rights, deprives Rights, violates Rights. Why? Is it because you think that you are, somehow, too 'good' to be subjected to deprivation and violation while others should be deprived and violated?
       
      Is that why you want a 'Union' of State governments rather than a 'United' people?
       
      Do you think that you are somehow 'more than equal'? On what theory are you 'more than equal'? Do you honestly believe you can convince a jury, in this land, that you are 'more than equal'? The only people I know of that get away with this are Government Employees or the Super Rich and it is contary to our Organic Law, our Declaration that established us as a united people, that they do. Are you one of them?
       
      Respectfully,
       
      Ed
      www.informed.org
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ed44/  Join our Experiment in OpenLaw
    • David L. Miner
      Ed -- Because of the mixing of several posts, I am uncertain who posted the opinions below the dotted line. So I address my comments to that individual. And
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 31 8:26 PM
        Ed --

        Because of the mixing of several posts, I am uncertain who posted the opinions below the dotted line. So I address my comments to that individual. And it appears to be you.

        It would seem on initial reading that there are two thesis statements in your essay.

        First, that the Declaration of Independence is the foundation Document for our laws, and has legal precedence over the Constitution for the united States of America. I don't think you will find a court in the land all the way to the Supreme Court that would support that. Further, it would be my understanding that the Declaration "declared" the reasons for severing relationships with England, but never made any attempt to create or establish a government or laws. But perhaps I am wrong. I think it happened once before...

        Second, that the government that was created was a unified government that encompassed all the peoples, including all the separate and sovereign States. I don't know of a Supreme Court case that confirms this, and know of several Supreme Court cases that would deny this. Quite a number of US Supreme Court cases, and at least 3 in the past 10 years, establish that the States are separate and sovereign, and the fed govt is significantly limited in its jurisdiction within the borders of the several States. In addition, I have never read anything by the Founders that supported the concept of a single nation encompassing all the people but instead support the concept of a union of States wherein all these peoples reside.

        Your diatribe against "Confederate" views notwithstanding, methinks you misunderstand or misrepresent the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution for the united States of America.
        Yours in freedom,

        Dave Miner
        www.FreedomSite.net


        > This document (DOI) established ONE Nation of People.

        nilbux:
        You will not find "nation" in the Declaration of independence
        or in the Constitution but you will find "union" in the preamble
        to the Constitution.
        -------------------------------------------------------

        Our Preamble begins with "WE THE PEOPLE of the United States"
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.