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Re: IRS refusing to acknowledge non-filer status

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  • Geoffrey ''Badger'' Gould
    Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:33:52 -0400 From: Dave Miner dminer@freedomsite.net Subject: Fw: Getting Started and getting Ready for Court
    Message 1 of 3 , May 10, 2004
      Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:33:52 -0400
      From: "Dave Miner" dminer@...
      Subject: Fw: Getting Started and getting Ready for Court
      << I have not filed returns or paid income taxes in 14 years, and I receive no correspondence from the IRS whatsoever.
      Why? Because I am listed in the IRS files as a non-filer. The IRS cannot by law contact a non-filer and request any info at all, much less pursue them for unpaid taxes.
      It is VERY IMPORTANT to inform the IRS that you are a non-filer, and you are absolutely correct in the importance you place on that issue. But it is equally important to get the IRS to LABEL you as a non-filer, or else you will still receive from the IRS "16-24 pieces of correspondence from the IRS per year."
      As long as the IRS has you listed as a taxpayer in your Individual Master File, you will have to suffer harassment from the IRS. You must get the IRS to change your listing in your own IMF or else you will not be free from the IRS.
      If you use a Freedom of Information Act request to get your IMF, you will discover that the IRS has you listed as a taxpayer. You must then challenge that designation effectively, and then you will be bothered by the IRS no longer.
      That is the key, as stated in the following Court cases:
      "The revenue laws are a code or a system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers, and not to non-taxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedures are prescribed for non-taxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law.
      With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor of the object of the revenue laws."
      (Long v. Rasmussen, 281 F. 236, at 238)
      "(P)ersons who are not taxpayers are not within the system and can obtain no benefit by following the procedures prescribed for taxpayers, such as the filing of claims for refunds."
      (Economy Plumbing and Heating v. U.S., 470 F.2d 585, at 589) >>

      This is all well and good, and I am aware of Long v. Rasmussen (and thanks for the "Economy Plumbing and Heating v. U.S."!), but how can I convince the IRS of this?
      I have told them time and time again I am a non-filer, based on the CFR, the IRS's own rules and regulations, etc.
      I still get mail, and now my paycheck is being levied (w/o prior notice), and various people for whom I've worked in the decade plus I've not filed have been sent unlawful "summonses" to meet with an IRS lady who refuses to refute my being a non-filer and refuses to refute I am not a "person subject."

      Any thoughts as to how to combat this in the bud?
      Half are scheduled for May 17th, the rest on the 24th.
      The "summons" (not signed by a judge, so no weight of law and only a "summons" in that the word is in VERY BIG BLACK BLOCK LETTERS on the top of their "request") claims to be to "determine the tax liability of [me]," despite the CFR does exactly that! I even asked if the CFR was way to determine my taxable income!
      http://taxableincome.net/Questions.doc
      I received a 35 page print-out of "tax protester" arguements that the print-out claims were debunked. Not a word about the CFR about which was my only inquiry. I am not a "tax protester" (and I've told them that). I uphold the law. Based on results, the IRS are the "tax protesters" or certainly "law protesters."

      Any suggestions would be appreciated; please CC to me directly to my realbadger@... address; thanks!

      < Badger >
      realbadger@...
    • Sterling W Wyatt
      Gentlemen, While the SC has used and thereby defined non-taxpayer (see below) , IMHO the term non-filer is an Individual Master File term used by computer
      Message 2 of 3 , May 14, 2004
        Gentlemen,
        While the SC has used and thereby defined "non-taxpayer" (see below) , IMHO the term "non-filer" is an Individual Master File term used by computer programers [Actually a presumption on my part because I know programing requirements, see where the term is used in the system, but do not see a definition of "non-filer" in the IR Manuals available to me.] to provide a designation of that group of TAXPAYERS who, for whatever reason (such as having less than a minimun taxable income) are not required by the criteria of the IRC/CFR to file a return.  I do not see , nor according to "Long...", EXPECT to see a "non-taxpayer" designation within the IRS computer system or records.
         
        Never-the-less, insist on being a NON-FILER in your documentation, and concurrently accept being a taxpayer obligated to prove your non-filer situation in IRS terms!
         
        On the other hand, "Long" says "... and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law ".  Since "due course of law" probably refered to court procedure in that old citation, it would appear to me that a civil suit might eventually have to be initiated to recover ones' non-taxpayer status presummed otherwise by the government in the administrative arena.
         
        That is the direction I am moving, but I would still like to hear what Dave Miner has more to say about taxpayers, non-filers, and non-taxpayers when he said: "You must then challenge that designation [taxpayer] effectively".
         
        Wayne
         
        On Mon, 10 May 2004 12:51:33 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Geoffrey ''Badger'' Gould <realbadger@...> writes:
        From: "Dave Miner" dminer@...
        ---snip--
        If you use a Freedom of Information Act request to get your IMF, you will discover that the IRS has you listed as a taxpayer.  You must then challenge that designation effectively, and then you will be bothered by the IRS no longer.
        That is the key, as stated in the following Court cases:
        "The revenue laws are a code or a system in regulation of tax assessment and collection.  They relate to taxpayers, and not to non-taxpayers.  The latter are without their scope.  No procedures are prescribed for non-taxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law.
        With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor of the object of the revenue laws."
        (Long v. Rasmussen, 281 F. 236, at 238)
        "(P)ersons who are not taxpayers are not within the system and can obtain no benefit by following the procedures prescribed for taxpayers, such as the filing of claims for refunds."
        (Economy Plumbing and Heating v. U.S., 470 F.2d 585, at 589) >>
         
        I have told them time and time again I am a non-filer, based on the CFR, the IRS's own rules and regulations, etc.
        ---snip---

        Any thoughts as to how to combat this in the bud?< Badger >
        realbadger@...
      • Dave Miner
        Badger -- First, I need to say that there are ways to get your so-called garnishment removed. You need to contact me privately about this. You said: This is
        Message 3 of 3 , May 15, 2004
          Badger --

          First, I need to say that there are ways to get your so-called garnishment
          removed. You need to contact me privately about this.

          You said: "This is all well and good, and I am aware of Long v. Rasmussen
          (and thanks for the "Economy Plumbing and Heating v. U.S."!), but how can I
          convince the IRS of this? I have told them time and time again I am a
          non-filer, based on the CFR, the IRS's own rules and regulations, etc. I
          still get mail, and now my paycheck is being levied (w/o prior notice), and
          various people for whom I've worked in the decade plus I've not filed have
          been sent unlawful "summonses" to meet with an IRS lady who refuses to
          refute my being a non-filer and refuses to refute I am not a "person
          subject.""

          Excellent points. Let me explain how the IRS "does business."

          It must be stated that the IRS as an agency knows the truth concerning the
          so-called income tax, but any given individual IRS employee may not. So I
          have made it a career to inform the individual agents of the laws. As the
          respective agents have learned the truth, many of them simply quit. The IRS
          has the highest percentage of employee turnover of any federal agency. This
          has been established in many Congressional hearings. As many agents learn
          the truth, they quit and seek employment elsewhere.

          This is one reason why many individuals write a good letter challenging
          certain IRS claims and presumptions, and then receive another collection
          letter from another agent in a different office. I see this all the time.

          In addition, the IRS as an agency knows that the so-called income tax is an
          indirect tax in the form of an excise that is levied against certain
          activities and privileges. As such, the so-called income tax cannot be
          lawfully levied against the paychecks of American Citizens, and the IRS as
          an agency knows this. The IRS software systems are almost all designed to
          follow the laws. Consequently, if any individual American Citizen is
          experiencing IRS collections activities, it is ONLY because the IRS has
          erroneous information in its computer systems, specifically, in the
          individual's IMF.

          You cannot receive any sort of collection notices from the IRS unless you
          are listed in a taxpayer status. This happens by one of two methods.
          First, your SSN is flagged as questionable. This means (officially) that
          the IRS has doubts that you are truly an individual engaged in trading your
          labor or knowledge for a paycheck. If the IRS does not have your SSN
          flagged as questionable, it cannot send you any sort of notice. This is
          true in a lawful sense, but, more importantly, the IRS software system
          cannot generate notices to an individual with a proper SSN. The software
          just won't allow it. So the IRS flags your SSN as questionable, and it can
          move against you. This occurs automatically when you file your first Form
          1040, and will not be changed unless the IRS is forced to change it.

          The second method for the IRS to engage in collection efforts against you is
          to have you listed as being involved in one or more taxable activities. I
          have seen the Individual Mater Files (IMFs) of a number of individuals who
          are listed as "illegal importer of drugs." The IRS doesn't care if you are
          a drug dealer as long as you pay taxes on the income you derive from that
          activity. Also, I have seen a number of individuals listed as being
          involved in making bullets, brewing alcohol products, etc., who are clearly
          not involved in those taxable activities

          So the IRS agent sees these designations in the computer record, then sees
          your claims that you are not a taxpayer, and they ignore you and follow your
          IMF designation. You don't "convince" the IRS to pay attention to your
          claims, you FORCE the IRS to change its designations in your IMF. This is a
          difficult and sometimes long process. I work with a small group of people
          who has forced the IRS to change its designations in IMFs in more than 200
          cases. In EVERY case, the IRS has changed the IMF designations and then has
          fallen silent -- it doesn't pursue the individuals any longer for that tax
          year, and usually never again.

          So most of us who properly inform the IRS of our non-taxpayer status are
          just plain ignored. Truthfully, the individual IRS agent has no lawful
          authority to stop pursuing you for taxes he/she believes you owe just
          because we tell him/her that we are not taxpayers or that we do not owe
          income taxes. After all, taxes are a legal debt, and the IRS has no legal
          option to collections for legitimate tax debts. This is the real problem --
          the IRS computer systems tell the agent that the individual owes taxes, and
          the individual IRS agent is bound by law to collect those taxes. It is only
          a small number of people within the IRS who have the authority to change the
          IMF, and unless and until the IMF is changed, you WILL NOT see relief.

          So, it is good to know lots about the IRC and the CFR. It is even better to
          know lots about individual court cases that demonstrate the truth about the
          so-called income taxes. I have written two books about the issues, have
          given quite a number of seminars on the issues, and have written hundreds of
          essays and articles on the issues. All these are fun for me and excellent
          for individuals. But not one of these efforts has resulted in the IRS
          leaving people alone. If you cannot get someone within the IRS to change
          your IMF, you will usually not experience any relief.

          Having said that, I must state that I have helped a couple of thousand
          individuals over more than 14 years experience relief through simply writing
          the types of letters we have discussed, but this is changing. The
          individual IRS agent is challenged to pursue those who refuse to file and to
          pay -- that is the job he/she signed up to do. And Congress is applying
          pressure on the IRS to collect this money. So in the past, where the IRS
          agent has become convinced that it will be a major pain to collect from you
          or me, the agent has dropped the case. Sometimes it works and sometimes it
          doesn't. This is why some people have experienced relief by following
          procedures that have no basis in law or regulations. And this explains why
          some, here and in other groups, have proposed many diverse and often
          mutually exclusive procedures as the "silver bullet" to stop the IRS. Some
          of these people ACTUALLY HAVE experienced relief from the IRS, while others
          have tried the same and not experienced any benefit at all. Where the
          individual agent has a stack of files and finds that one will take too much
          time for the money "owed," the agent will drop that file and chase the
          others. And this seems to be a somewhat arbitrary process. But over the
          past year or so, the IRS has dropped the file in fewer and fewer cases.
          This means that non-filers have experienced more and more harassment from
          the IRS, and even experienced liens and levies without benefit of lawful
          procedure in more cases than ever before.

          In other words, it is getting harder to fight the IRS, no matter how legally
          or lawfully correct you are. It is true that our side is seeing many
          excellent court victories, but almost all of these victories are in criminal
          cases. In civil cases, or worse in civil procedures, the IRS is winning
          more than it is losing.

          This requires us to fight smarter, not harder. This means, you need someone
          who knows the IRS administrative rules and the IMF issues to fight your
          battle for you. Many, perhaps millions, can still win by writing letters.
          I am still seeing victories using this approach for my clients. But the IRS
          is getting more aggressive and that is requiring serious battles,
          administrative hearings, and properly lodged legal threats against the IRS,
          in order to get relief.

          In addition, if you can manage your assets such that you no longer own large
          assets, then the IRS has little or nothing to go after. You can use a
          business trust, a Nevada corporation, asset liens, or several other legal
          means to move or encumber ownership of your assets. But proper asset
          management is essential to win against the IRS. For a good report on the
          features and benefits of a business trust, you can click on the following
          link -- www.FreedomSite.net/btrusts.htm.

          If you combine good asset management and legally accurate letters to the
          IRS, you will probably see the IRS go away over time. Where this doesn't
          work, you need to get someone to fight the IRS that has a "giant-killer"
          weapon.

          Otherwise, the IRS will probably win in its attempt to separate you from
          your money.

          Yours in freedom,

          Dave Miner
          www.FreedomSite.net
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