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Traffic in California

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  • ehoodb@yahoo.com
    Hello to all, One more question, to those who may know... I heard there is a report out there, stating that drivers who drive 10-15 MPH above speed limits are
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 16, 2003
      Hello to all,
      One more question, to those who may know...
      I heard there is a report out there, stating that drivers who drive
      10-15 MPH above speed limits are less likely to be involved in
      accidents! Statistics, so I heard.

      Anybody knows about this report - and where can one find it?


      As you can tell, I got traffic tickets - three to be excat!
      1) I was stopped at red light - officer from accross intersection
      claimed I was speeding at 70MPH !!!!

      2) I was traveling at about 57MPH in 55MPH officer says I was going
      70MPH

      3) I was going 60MPH in 55MPH officer says I was going 70MPH!

      Always 70MPH - interesting...


      Many thanks for answers

      Ehood
    • geo t
      Interesting concept. I had a survey that said the person speeding caused the accident.. LOL Call your local AAA that may be a good start. Officer will first
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 17, 2003
        Interesting concept. I had a survey that said the person speeding caused the accident.. LOL
        Call your local AAA that may be a good start.
        Officer will first ask you to give evidence against yourself. "DO YOU KNOW WHY I PULLED YOU OVER" Then they will use a arbitrary figure which they are thought to get you to give further evidence against yourself. " I WA ONLY DOING 65"
      • keshugart
        How did the officer determine that you were exceeding the speed limit? Radar? Were you traveling around a curve or incline in the road? Challenge the validity
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 18, 2003
          How did the officer determine that you were exceeding the speed limit?
          Radar?
          Were you traveling around a curve or incline in the road?
          Challenge the validity of his claims in court.
        • Advancepum@aol.com
          Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop s ticket book (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same speed he hasn t reset
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 18, 2003
            Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop's ticket book (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same speed he hasn't reset his radar gun.
            In California if I remember right they have to do a survey or something every year or the speed limit isn't (I haven't been out there for a few years)
            Go to court for a day sometime before you are skeduled and see what gets them off.
            Paul
          • ebanna
            All officers used LASER - that s why I need to know if LASER is under Judicial Notice in California... I am, OF COURSE, going to chalange them in court! I have
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 18, 2003
              All officers used LASER - that's why I need to know if LASER is under
              Judicial Notice in California...

              I am, OF COURSE, going to chalange them in court! I have no
              intensions to let it go without a fight...

              Best Regards


              --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "keshugart" <keshugart@y...>
              wrote:
              > How did the officer determine that you were exceeding the speed
              limit?
              > Radar?
              > Were you traveling around a curve or incline in the road?
              > Challenge the validity of his claims in court.
            • ebanna
              Actually, in the case where the officer was accross the intersection from me, he claimed I PASSED HIM ONCE ALREADY GOING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION (a physical
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 18, 2003
                Actually, in the case where the officer was accross the intersection
                from me, he claimed I PASSED HIM ONCE ALREADY GOING THE OPPOSITE
                DIRECTION (a physical impossibility!) - I realized immediately he
                was a liar, so I pulled out a tape recorder and recorded him. I
                refused to give him my papers if he were to use the information
                against me in a criminal case - I told him the Constitution & 5th
                Amendment supercede the Vehicle Code! I caved when he was going to
                arrest me. He then stated again, on recorder, that I passed him
                going the other direction. Yet in "court" he lied and contradicted
                the recording. However, the corrupt court let it stand. I lost that
                case and it's in appeal process now - I have cited some 30 points
                where the "court" broke the law...
                It's a long story, and I didn't want to tire you with this, but since
                I am at this point -
                In araginment I asked who was the injured party, and for a proof that
                there was a signed verified complaint on record and - which the
                ticket is not! - and the commissioner (of crime) started threating me
                with arrest if I don't shut up. Bailiff was shouting at me too, at
                the top of her lungs, with her hands on cuffs. I did not enter a
                plea and commissioner (of crime) entered it for me (illegal!) and it
                went downhill from there.. The "court" is ignoring ALL LAWS AND
                REGULATIONS !!! It's a big sham and a shame!

                In the other two cases - did not go to arraignment yet - officers
                asked me if I know why he stopped me and I asked "DOES IT MATTER?"
                There was no answer from them, and I said no more!
                I am working on my deffence (more likely attack) procedures now.

                Best Regards



                --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "geo t" <keylaw@e...> wrote:
                > Interesting concept. I had a survey that said the person speeding
                caused the accident.. LOL
                > Call your local AAA that may be a good start.
                > Officer will first ask you to give evidence against yourself. "DO
                YOU KNOW WHY I PULLED YOU OVER" Then they will use a arbitrary figure
                which they are thought to get you to give further evidence against
                yourself. " I WA ONLY DOING 65"
              • John Edwardson
                First, before anything else, challenge jurisdiction. As I recall, this is the only motion that can be directed to the court without conferring jurisdiction to
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 18, 2003
                  First, before anything else, challenge jurisdiction. As I recall, this
                  is the only motion that can be directed to the court without conferring
                  jurisdiction to the court.

                  keshugart wrote:

                  >How did the officer determine that you were exceeding the speed limit?
                  >Radar?
                  >Were you traveling around a curve or incline in the road?
                  >Challenge the validity of his claims in court.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Frog Farmer
                  ... Things might have changed a bit since you ve been here. To subpoena something, you have to be a party to a case. Now, some people like being a party and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 19, 2003
                    On Thursday, December 18, 2003, at 03:55 PM, Advancepum@... wrote:

                    > Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop's ticket book
                    > (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same
                    > speed he hasn't reset his radar gun.
                    > In California if I remember right they have to do a survey or something
                    > every year or the speed limit isn't (I haven't been out there for a few
                    > years)

                    Things might have changed a bit since you've been here. To subpoena
                    something, you have to be a party to a case. Now, some people like
                    being a party and others would rather not. I'm one of those who would
                    rather not, so I do not permit unauthorized persons to act against me in
                    the name of the state. Oath requirements are found in the state
                    constitution at Article XX, section 3. Requirements for those claiming
                    to be attorneys are found at Business and Professions Code section 6067.

                    For those who like to be prosecuted, all rights may be waived at your
                    own convenience. I do not waive any right for any cause or reason,
                    just because I can lawfully maintain that position. In California,
                    anyone who finds themselves in a case has already waived numerous
                    rights, and will probably be cajoled into waiving many more.

                    Rather than argue about radar after granting mere neighbors powers they
                    do not lawfully hold, I prefer not to permit my neighbors to impersonate
                    an officer while in my presence, as it forces me to decide whether or
                    not I will make a citizen's arrest for a felony committed in my
                    presence. Some would say that if I failed to arrest, I would be guilty
                    of misprison of felony, and I resent it when neighbors put me into this
                    position just to receive a paycheck, so I nip it in the bud ASAP. I
                    instantly challenge any special claim any neighbor may make against me,
                    such as being an officer of the state when both of us know that the
                    required oath was never taken, and powers and duties were never
                    conferred. Paychecks may have been received, but that fraud does not
                    involve me.

                    However, if one likes to be prosecuted, anyone may waive any rights
                    necessary to obtain convenience and expedience. One may choose play
                    along with impersonators, if one has the time to spare. One may plead
                    to non-existent accusatory pleadings issued by impersonators. One may
                    qualify any Tom Dick or Harry to play judge in what is called "voluntary
                    arbitration". You can even subpoena radar test results.

                    Remember, when you are playing "let's pretend", there are no rules.
                    Let's pretend that we have a government, and that your neighbor is an
                    officer in it, and he's going to get you. Let's pretend he read the
                    constitution and took the required oath to uphold it. Let's pretend
                    that people still have the guts to act on what they know despite peer
                    group pressure to conform.

                    They need your cooperation to convict you in California. And even then
                    it's a void conviction, but they won't tell if you won't. Can you keep
                    the secret?

                    Cynically fed-up in Northern Cal,

                    FF
                  • WW011@aol.com
                    The survey is the traffic and engineering survey of the highway in the specific Must be updated every five years. You can probably get it from the local hp. or
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 20, 2003
                      The survey is the traffic and engineering survey of the highway in the
                      specific
                      Must be updated every five years. You can probably get it from the local hp.
                      or city building.
                    • road goblin
                      upon application they can receive a three year extention from the department of transportation, so in reality they have 8 years between servey s but only with
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 21, 2003
                        upon application they can receive a three year
                        extention from the department of transportation, so in
                        reality they have 8 years between servey's but only
                        with a valid extention. This is how it is in the
                        communist STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

                        --- WW011@... wrote:
                        > The survey is the traffic and engineering survey of
                        > the highway in the
                        > specific
                        > Must be updated every five years. You can probably
                        > get it from the local hp.
                        > or city building.
                        >
                        >


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                      • WW011@aol.com
                        Interesting! Be sure to ask for a certified copy of extension at court. If witness does not have it, that just might win your case
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 24, 2003
                          Interesting!
                          Be sure to ask for a certified copy of extension at court.
                          If witness does not have it, that just might win your case
                        • Occupant Family
                          Greetings, May I make one small request? You originally stated that the charge was speeding , did you not? Have you researched the California Motor Vehicle
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 28, 2003
                            Greetings,

                            May I make one small request?
                            You originally stated that the charge was "speeding", did you not?
                            Have you researched the California Motor Vehicle Code, by whatever name,
                            to see if the "speed limit is prima facie" there also?
                            Please do so and send me any positive results from your research, if you
                            will.

                            Most of the States have a "prima facie" speed limit?
                            What that means to you is that the speed you were travelling
                            may be "reasonable & proper under the circumstances"!
                            See the attached case!

                            Deo volente,
                            Jim
                          • Scott Hall
                            I just had a thought. When a bus or taxi is no longer taking on passengers it displays a sign that says, NOT IN SERVICE Now, it would seem to me that if a
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 27, 2004

                              I just had a thought.
                               
                              When a bus or taxi is no longer taking on "passengers" it displays a sign that says, "NOT IN SERVICE"
                               
                              Now, it would seem to me that if a car is registered as a "MOTOR VEHICLE"  (commercial designation requiring the operator to have a driver's license) then the state is well within its right to rely on that PRESUMPTION that the person behind the wheel is engaged in commerce.
                               
                              Sure, you can rebut this presumption by stating that you are NOT engaged in commerce when pulled over, but mere words don't seem to carry much weight.  Now a sign stating "OUT OF SERVICE" clearly provides notice to all that the vehicle is NOT engaged in commerce.
                               
                              Makes it a little easier to maintain your claim of noncommercial, eh?
                               
                              JMHO
                               
                              Scott
                               

                              Advancepum@... wrote:
                              Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop's ticket book (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same speed he hasn't reset his radar gun.
                              In California if I remember right they have to do a survey or something every year or the speed limit isn't (I haven't been out there for a few years)
                              Go to court for a day sometime before you are skeduled and see what gets them off.
                              Paul


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                            • Don Schwarz
                              The onus of proof is on the law enforcement officer, to PROVE that you were in commercial operation of a motor vehicle. Officer, how many paying passengers
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 29, 2004



                                The onus of proof is on the law enforcement officer, to PROVE
                                that you were in commercial operation of a motor vehicle.

                                "Officer, how many paying passengers were in the motor vehicle?"

                                "Officer, what type of goods were being freighted in the motor vehicle?"

                                "What, there was no commercial usage of the public right-of-ways?"

                                "Officer, you can only control traffic upon the public right-of-ways,
                                which is in fact, commercial movement of passengers or goods
                                by a licensed operator."

                                "My actions did not place myself under your authority."

                                "The operators license I possess, is only to be used should
                                I be in commercial transport of passengers or goods."

                                "I wasn't, so your citation has no standing in this court."

                                What do you think? --------------------- Don


                                At 09:23 PM 3/27/04 -0800, you wrote:

                                I just had a thought.
                                 
                                When a bus or taxi is no longer taking on "passengers" it displays a sign that says, "NOT IN SERVICE"
                                 
                                Now, it would seem to me that if a car is registered as a "MOTOR VEHICLE"  (commercial designation requiring the operator to have a driver's license) then the state is well within its right to rely on that PRESUMPTION that the person behind the wheel is engaged in commerce.
                                 
                                Sure, you can rebut this presumption by stating that you are NOT engaged in commerce when pulled over, but mere words don't seem to carry much weight.  Now a sign stating "OUT OF SERVICE" clearly provides notice to all that the vehicle is NOT engaged in commerce.
                                 
                                Makes it a little easier to maintain your claim of noncommercial, eh?
                                 
                                JMHO
                                 
                                Scott
                                 

                                Advancepum@... wrote:
                                Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop's ticket book (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same speed he hasn't reset his radar gun.
                                In California if I remember right they have to do a survey or something every year or the speed limit isn't (I haven't been out there for a few years)
                                Go to court for a day sometime before you are skeduled and see what gets them off.
                                Paul


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                              • Dave Miner
                                Scott - You brig up a good point, but one which I expect will bring its own additional problems. For instance, if one places a Not In Service sign on a car,
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 29, 2004
                                  Scott -
                                   
                                  You brig up a good point, but one which I expect will bring its own additional problems.
                                   
                                  For instance, if one places a "Not In Service" sign on a car, one is declaring that this is a vehicle that is intended for commercial purposes that is temporarily not being used for that purpose. 
                                   
                                  I am not sure that the sign would be worth the additional assumptive problems.
                                   
                                  Yours in freedom,
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:23 AM
                                  Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Not In Service


                                  I just had a thought.
                                   
                                  When a bus or taxi is no longer taking on "passengers" it displays a sign that says, "NOT IN SERVICE"
                                   
                                  Now, it would seem to me that if a car is registered as a "MOTOR VEHICLE"  (commercial designation requiring the operator to have a driver's license) then the state is well within its right to rely on that PRESUMPTION that the person behind the wheel is engaged in commerce.
                                   
                                  Sure, you can rebut this presumption by stating that you are NOT engaged in commerce when pulled over, but mere words don't seem to carry much weight.  Now a sign stating "OUT OF SERVICE" clearly provides notice to all that the vehicle is NOT engaged in commerce.
                                   
                                  Makes it a little easier to maintain your claim of noncommercial, eh?
                                   
                                  JMHO
                                   
                                  Scott
                                   

                                  Advancepum@... wrote:
                                  Subpoena the radar gun, the maintenance record, The cop's ticket book (see what he has been righting) if all the tickets are for the same speed he hasn't reset his radar gun.
                                  In California if I remember right they have to do a survey or something every year or the speed limit isn't (I haven't been out there for a few years)
                                  Go to court for a day sometime before you are skeduled and see what gets them off.
                                  Paul


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                                • hobot
                                  Or like private tow truck s say... NOT FOR HIRE
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 30, 2004
                                    Or like private tow truck's say...
                                    "NOT FOR HIRE"
                                  • Scott Hall
                                    Dave Miner wrote: Scott - You brig up a good point, but one which I expect will bring its own additional problems. For instance, if
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 2, 2004


                                      Dave Miner <dminer@...> wrote:
                                      Scott -
                                       
                                      You brig up a good point, but one which I expect will bring its own additional problems.
                                       
                                      For instance, if one places a "Not In Service" sign on a car, one is declaring that this is a vehicle that is intended for commercial purposes You do that already when you register it as a "Motor Vehicle" that is temporarily not being used for that purpose. 
                                       
                                      I am not sure that the sign would be worth the additional assumptive problems.
                                       
                                      Yours in freedom,
                                       
                                       

                                      Below is a post I sent in last year.  Perhaps you will find something useful. 

                                      Take care & God bless!

                                      S

                                      ---------------------------------------------------

                                      To simply remove the "tags" and/or license plates from your "vehicle" does not magically convert it into your "private" "automobile." 

                                      Legal paperwork was filed (and the gov't has a legitimate right to rely on it) when one registered their "vehicles."  There are many theories as to what status this vehicle now takes, so I'll just give you the usual version.

                                      1.  You have declared that the automobile is a vehicle, and subject to licensing regulations by the gov't.

                                      2.  You have declared that this vehicle will be used for commercial purposes or engaged in commerce.

                                      3.  Since it is registered as a vehicle, you are required by law to have a license to operate it per gov't regulation.

                                      You will never have a legal leg to stand on by just removing your tags/plates. 

                                      Let me ask you this, when the Navy is done with a big ship that it uses for war and wants to sell it to the private sector, what do they do?

                                      They have to fill out a bunch of paperwork to "decommision" the ship from military use to private use.  So it is with your "vehicles."  You can't simply remove the tags/plates and change the legal status of it.  You must file legal documents with the appropriate gov't agency to decommision it from commercial use to private use. Or however you view the status of your vehicle.  And since it is near impossible to unilaterally revoke your contract/registration, you should probably just wait for it to expire and then not renew it. However, you cannot just let your registration expire and then fancy your vehicle's status to have changed.  Without the decommision paperwork, you are guilty of failing to renew your registration on a vehicle.

                                      I would also include documents of private ownership.  I can't remember exactly how it went, but I recall a process where you file a document/affidavit stating that you PAID IN FULL WITH LAWFUL MONEY, and are the sole owner, holding the title free and clear of all claims, to said property.  Whether you include a clause stating that no challenges or counterclaims within 30 days closes the window on all questions of total ownership of clear title, or it is a matter of law (common law?) that after 30 days it's a done deal with no recourse to challenge, I don't recall.

                                      I may be all wet, but I would tell peole to try this decommision process in mass before I would advocate a blatant disregard of the law and hope that it worked.  I cannot see an upside into telling people to just remove their tags/plates and dare the gov't to do it's worst. 

                                      But that's just my humble opinion.

                                      S


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                                    • Don Schwarz
                                      How about a Non-Commercial use only sign? You know like some manufacturers note on the product not for individual sale .
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 5, 2004

                                        How about a

                                        "Non-Commercial use" only sign?

                                        You know like some manufacturers note on the product
                                        "not for individual sale".



                                        At 04:36 PM 3/29/04 -0500, you wrote:
                                        Scott -
                                         
                                        You brig up a good point, but one which I expect will bring its own additional problems.
                                         
                                        For instance, if one places a "Not In Service" sign on a car, one is declaring that this is a vehicle that is intended for commercial purposes that is temporarily not being used for that purpose.
                                         
                                        I am not sure that the sign would be worth the additional assumptive problems.
                                         
                                        Yours in freedom,
                                         
                                        Dave Miner
                                        www.FreedomSite.net

                                         
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