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RE: [tips_and_tricks] Re: To my good freind Marsha

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  • Marsha Breazeale
    Ficticious entities do, indeed, have constitutional rights. And an estate taxable for the federal tax on incomes must be triggered by the event of DEATH of
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 2, 2003
      Ficticious entities do, indeed, have constitutional rights. And an estate taxable for the federal tax on incomes must be triggered by the event of DEATH of the testator. The subject of the tax is not a "who" but a "what".

      NICK WROTE:
      Estates are ficticous entities and do not have constitutional rights.

      All these forms are tax class 5, estate and gift tax class forms.

      this is where the courts say your argument is frivolous unless you
      really know who the subject of the tax is.
    • Marsha Breazeale
      I do that every January for the preceding year, using a Declaration of Monetary Receipts which I have developed and use exclusively for this purpose. Please
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 2, 2003
        I do that every January for the preceding year, using a "Declaration of Monetary Receipts" which I have developed and use exclusively for this purpose.

        Please email me at thebreaze@... and I will email you the template and instructions for it, no charge.

        Thanks.

        Marsha

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Scott [mailto:scott@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:22 PM
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: To my good freind Marsha


        Marsha,
        How would you go about giving constructive notice to the IRS that all the
        W-2, W-4, 1099, 941, 940 forms you sent as a business owner where a mistake
      • Rob
        Ok guys, I’ll be sending this to my “employer” for the past year and the coming one, let me know what you think and if I need any corrections? You may
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 4, 2003

          Ok guys, I’ll be sending this to my “employer” for the past year and the coming one, let me know what you think and if I need any corrections? You may use/change it for your own needs, Rob NJ. Here it is :

          <<NAME/ Address/ City/ State/ ZIP>>

          DATE Certified Mail No.

          <<Company Name/ Dept./ Attn: Official/ Address/ City/ State/ Zip>>

          Re: W-2 Form for the year 2002

           

          Dear Sir or Madam:

           

          I am writing in regards to the above W-2 form from <<Company Name>> and it is not correct. <<Company Name>> needs to correct it and send the replacement to the IRS so that it will be credited and I refunded, the amounts erroneously and illegally taken from my remuneration.

           

          I, <<NAME>>, am a Citizen of the United States of America, in that I was naturalized in the State of (*****), (*****) County, on (*****). My present home residence is as specifically stated above, within the United States of America and not abroad as defined and delineated within the Internal Revenue Code.

           

          <<Company Name>> is not aware of, and I hope it does not ignore, the provisions of 26 U.S.C. § 3401(a), as I state that my address shown above is my legal address, is not abroad and thus not outside of the United States of America under the internal revenue laws, and therefore the remuneration paid to me by <<Company Name>> does not constitute "Wages" as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 3401(a), and cannot be legally withheld from me under any federal income tax law including § 3402.

           

          The remuneration paid by <<Company Name>> is excluded from gross income under § 911 of the Internal Revenue Code, entitled "CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES LIVING ABROAD", and is therefore not defined as "Wages" as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 3401(a)(8)(A)(i):


          § 3401. Definitions

          Wages

          For purposes of this chapter, the term "wages" means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include remuneration paid--

          (8)(A) for services for an employer (other than the United States or any agency thereof)-- (i) performed by a citizen of the United States if, at the time of the payment of such remuneration, it is reasonable to believe that such remuneration will be excluded from gross income under section 911;

           

          Since my remuneration is excluded from gross income under § 911, it is therefore not subject to withholding under 26 U.S.C. § 3402.

          In light of the admission by the Secretary of the Treasury that the only income of U.S. Citizens stated as not exempt, is income included in gross income under § 911 as set forth in 26 CFR § 1.861-8T(d)(2)(iii):


          (iii) Income that is not considered tax exempt.

          The following items are not considered to be exempt, eliminated, or
          excluded income
          and, thus, may have expenses, losses, or other deductions
          allocated and apportioned to them:

          (A) In the case of a foreign taxpayer (including a foreign sales corporation (FSC)) computing its effectively connected income, gross income (whether domestic or foreign source) which is not effectively connected to the conduct of a
          United States trade or business;

          (B) In computing the combined taxable income of a DISC or FSC and its related supplier, the gross income of a DICS or a FSC;

          (C) For all purposes under subchapter N of the Code, including the computation of combined taxable income of a possessions corporation and its affiliates under section 936(h), the gross income of a possessions corporation for which a credit is allowed under section 936(a); and

          (D) Foreign earned income as defined in section 911 and the regulations thereunder (however, the rules of section 1.911-6 do not require the allocation and apportionment of certain deductions, including home mortgage interest, to foreign earned income for purposes of determining the deductions disallowed under section 911(d)(6)).

           

          Since the above items are NOT exempt, eliminated, or excluded from gross income, they are to be included in gross income. Since my remuneration paid by <<Company Name>> is not in the above list, it is therefore exempt, eliminated or excluded from gross income.

          The remuneration paid to me cannot be legally withheld pursuant to § 3402, as it does not legally constitute "wages" under § 3401(a), and it does not legally constitute "gross income" pursuant to the regulations promulgated by the Secretary of the Treasury and the specifically cited § 911, identifying the only time U.S. Citizens have income from U.S. sources.

          <<Company Name’s>> contention with the W-2, which has not been filed under penalty of perjury, is that I have received "wages" to be included in "gross income". From the above, you can see this is false, and now it is shown that the W-2 is mere hearsay. It is time for <<Company Name>> and all other U.S. Corporations to read the law and stop following hearsay advice of accountants, lawyers, and the IRS.

          <<Company Name>>is a corporation founded in a State of the Union, and not within any federal territory or abroad. I am a U.S. Citizen, living and working in a state of the Union, and not within any federal territory or abroad. My remuneration cannot be construed as foreign earned income, unless I claim a foreign tax home pursuant to § 911. Therefore, none of the remuneration paid to me by <<Company Name>>is includible in "gross income" according to the Laws and Regulations of the United States.

          It is imperative that <<Company Name>>send the corrected W-2 which show ZERO as the amount of "Wages", "Social security wages", "Medicare Wages" and "State wages" paid to me for the year 1993, and the amounts that were withheld remaining the same.

          You now see that the remuneration paid to me by <<Company Name>>cannot be construed as "wages" as defined in § 3121(a) or § 3401(a). Therefore, <<Company Name>>has no liability to withhold taxes under § 3403, and has been withholding my property without any authority of law. Due to this, <<Company Name>>has the opportunity and Administrative remedy to obtain the return of my money to me by correction of the W-2 and 941 return for the year that I had worked for it.

          By admission of <<Company Name>> on the W-2, which I have shown to contain hearsay false statements, the amounts withheld from me must be returned to me. The corrected W-2 and 941 Form will provide the means for <<Company Name>>to provide me my money that it erroneously sent to the IRS.

          Should <<Company Name>> doubt this, I have materials regarding a company which applied this argument and reasoning to 3 years worth of its information returns, to the amount of 2.3 Million dollars. That is a count of about 100 W-2 and over 400 1099 Forms were changed to claim no "gross income" or "items" thereof were paid for any of the years in question.

          You will see the company is a multi-million dollar business, but what you cannot see is that this individual has held a General Accounting Degree for over 30 years, and therefore has known the IRS system to be the same as everyone else has. Nevertheless, due to corporate bureaucratic failures he found himself in a situation where sheepish compliance was no longer a viable option.

          In this process he proved that the standard operating procedure of corporations to comply with IRS reporting requirements were not necessary, as the argument that he presented proves U.S. Corporations paying U.S. Citizens living in the U.S. are not earning "gross income" as defined by law.

          I expect to be provided one of the following within twenty (20) days of receipt of this letter:

          evidence from <<Company Name>>that it has filed the appropriate documentation with the appropriate IRS office, and thus it is refunding the money withheld from me immediately; or;

          notification that it refuses to follow these laws as written, and provides me with notification of the actual laws that it is complying with as the former laws cited from Chapter 24 of the IRC are substantiated by the said employer refund material to entitle me to all of my money; or;

          in order to assure that <<Company Name>> is not made party to any future federal litigation, I seek a signed affidavit, from the responsible official with <<Company Name>> who is responsible for the W-2 forms, explaining that the company is not following any law, is not willing to comply with the law in relationship to U.S. Citizens and residents as proved by acceptable to the IRS in the stated employer refund material, is following no law, because it is under fear, duress, and coercion of the IRS, and that duress is the sole reason for its actions.

           

           

          Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

           

          ______________________

          <<Name>>

           

          cc: Department of the Treasury

          Internal Revenue Service

          <<district>> Service Center

          Attn: Chief <<Name>>

          Attn: IRS District Director

          <<address>>

          <<city, state, zip>>

           

           

           

           

        • Richard Johnson
          Hi all On Thursday 04 December 2003 18:12, Rob wrote: Ok guys, I’ll be sending this to my “employer” for the past year and the coming one, let me
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
            Hi all

            On Thursday 04 December 2003 18:12, Rob wrote:
            " Ok guys, I’ll be sending this to my “employer” for the past year and the
            " coming one, let me know what you think and if I need any corrections?

            I wish you the best Rob. Please let us know how it goes.

            A few years back, I sent a similar letter to several "employer"s demaning
            changes to W-2's. Of three letters, only one was answered. The other two
            were ignored. (Guess whose side the IRS took on those.) The third was
            answered by a company attorney who siad basically, "Your argument is
            onconvincing, and so we will continue to do what the IRS tells us to."

            Eventually, after being screwed around by the three-letter goons long enough
            for their hidden assessments to default, I wound up paing their tribute.

            Another time, I had an employer write back telling me that even though I was
            a Citizen and not liable for withholding on subtitle A taxes, I was still
            liable for subtitle C taxes. I never figured out how to deal with that
            one, instead leaving the job for a different one.

            I'm sure that Marsha and Mon Tag and a few othes have some good thoughts on
            this; what really works and what doesn't.

            Again, good l**k. Here are some specific thoughts.


            " I am writing in regards to the above W-2 form from <<Company Name>> and
            " it is not correct. <<Company Name>> needs to correct it and send the
            " replacement to the IRS so that it will be credited and I refunded, the
            " amounts erroneously and illegally taken from my remuneration.

            Do you want to handle the cancellation of your W-4 at this time or in a
            separate letter?


            " <<Company Name>> is not aware of, and I hope it does not ignore, the
            " provisions of 26 U.S.C. § 3401(a), as I state that my address shown
            " above is my legal address, is not abroad and thus not outside of the
            " United States of America under the internal revenue laws, and therefore
            " the remuneration paid to me by <<Company Name>> does not constitute
            " "Wages" as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 3401(a), and cannot be legally
            " withheld from me under any federal income tax law including § 3402.

            Additional points: Is company X an authorized withholding agent for the
            department ot treasury? Can they produce a copy of their certificate? (I
            think that's 7701, but don't hold me to it.) If they are authorized, then
            they must surely follow the rules. If they are not authorized, then they
            are stealing.


            " § 3401. Definitions
            " Wages
            " For purposes of this chapter, the term "wages" means ....

            Nicely done. Will you also include the definition of "employer" as the US
            gov't?


            " <<Company Name’s>> contention with the W-2, which has not been filed
            " under penalty of perjury, is that I have received "wages" to be included
            " in "gross income". From the above, you can see this is false, and now it
            " is shown that the W-2 is mere hearsay. It is time for <<Company Name>>
            " and all other U.S. Corporations to read the law and stop following
            " hearsay advice of accountants, lawyers, and the IRS.

            Is this relevant or needed in your opening salvo? Might it be better to
            wait until they say "no"?


            " It is imperative that <<Company Name>>send the corrected W-2 which show
            " ZERO as the amount of "Wages", "Social security wages", "Medicare Wages"
            " and "State wages" paid to me for the year 1993, and the amounts that
            " were withheld remaining the same.

            If they are novices, they won't believe that zero for title A means zero for
            title C as well.


            " By admission of <<Company Name>> on the W-2, which I have shown to
            " contain hearsay false statements, the amounts withheld from me must be
            " returned to me. The corrected W-2 and 941 Form will provide the means
            " for <<Company Name>>to provide me my money that it erroneously sent to
            " the IRS.

            To show that it's hearsay, you should get them to admit that none of them
            there has any first-hand knowledge of your status, only what you have told
            them. For them to believe you initially, and then claim they can't believe
            you later is absurd.


            " Should <<Company Name>> doubt this, I have materials regarding a company
            " which applied this argument and reasoning to 3 years worth of its
            " information returns, to the amount of 2.3 Million dollars. That is a
            " count of about 100 W-2 and over 400 1099 Forms were changed to claim no
            " "gross income" or "items" thereof were paid for any of the years in
            " question.
            " You will see the company is a multi-million dollar business, but what
            " you cannot see is that this individual has held a General Accounting
            " Degree for over 30 years, and therefore has known the IRS system to be
            " the same as everyone else has. Nevertheless, due to corporate
            " bureaucratic failures he found himself in a situation where sheepish
            " compliance was no longer a viable option.
            " In this process he proved that the standard operating procedure of
            " corporations to comply with IRS reporting requirements were not
            " necessary, as the argument that he presented proves U.S. Corporations
            " paying U.S. Citizens living in the U.S. are not earning "gross income"
            " as defined by law.

            That's interesting. Could you point us at that info. (In case I ever want
            ot use it.)

            " I expect to be provided one of the following within twenty (20) days of
            " receipt of this letter:

            Calendar days or business days?

            " in order to assure that <<Company Name>> is not made party to any future
            " federal litigation, I seek a signed affidavit,

            Remove everrything ni this sentece before "a signed affadavit ... ". Don't
            ever even get close to threatening to sue if there's a chance you won't.
            They'll hurt you later. Just demant the affadavit as al alternative.

            Jut out of curiosity, what's your plan if they provide the affidavit saying
            they are under duress of the IRS?
            --
            Richard Johnson richard@...
            " Taxes are commonly a calamity for the people and a nightmare for the
            " government. For the former they are always excessive; for the latter
            " they are never enough, never too much." -Juan de Mariana (1535-1624)
          • j kocourek
            Consider including plenty of adult diapers. Your actions will mark you as a PROBLEM WORKER, cause your company to be scrutinized by a government agency, cause
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
              Consider including plenty of adult diapers.

              Your actions will mark you as a PROBLEM WORKER, cause your company
              to be scrutinized by a government agency, cause your company more
              work, go AGAINST EVERYTHING their CPA's and lawyers were taught
              about income taxes (both are paid big money for advice and actually
              know squat about income taxes).

              In your "threatning" and "insulting" letter, you will effectively
              tell the management that they are STUPID, violating the workers
              civil rights, stealing form their workers, conducting conversion of
              their worker's property and they have thrown away lots of company
              funds to comply with IRS demands. You will effectively tell the
              payroll department they are stealing from worker's payroll, don't
              know their jobs and should be fired.

              To top it off, as most businesses go, they do not want the attention
              any government agency and whether or not their books are perfect
              they FEAR IRS retribution.

              Expect company to dump you at the first opportunity using any other
              reason except the withholding. Additionally, you will be
              blacklisted from working at that company EVER AGAIN!



              Unless, you run the company, keep a low profile. Give them an
              exempt form W-4 or one with 9 exemptions. Forget what you lost from
              past withholding. They won't bother you as long as they are "fat
              dumb and happy". This is one of the times that being right and
              telling the truth will get you SCREWED.


              George






              --------------------
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            • John
              This is the one I wrote - its short and sweet - John Date: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: [employer] Payroll Department Address...... From: [Your Name] Address & SS #
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                This is the one I wrote - its short and sweet -
                John

                Date: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                To:
                [employer]
                Payroll Department
                Address......

                From:
                [Your Name]
                Address & SS #

                Re: Error on W2 Form

                Dear Sir or Madam:

                I have worked for [Employer] for about 2.5 years now and
                have gotten two W-2's that have had errors on them for each of the
                last two tax years. The error centers around box number 1 on the W-
                2. Wages in the tax structure of the United States is a defined
                legal term that has several meanings depending on which type
                of "wage" tax the government is referring to.
                Wages in boxes 3 and 5 of the W-2 are defined in 26 U.S.C. §
                3121 and it's corresponding regulations in the Code of Federal
                Regulations. These Social Security and Medicare wages are paid and
                deducted from payments of wages as defined at § 3121 under the
                authority of § 3101. The regulations specify the maximum Social
                Security payment each year. The regulations also indicate that
                there is no maximum on Medicare. [employer] or its payroll
                contractor is not making any errors in the Medicare or Social
                Security computation. However, there are certain exemptions for the
                Wages as defined in box 1 of the W-2, depending on your citizenship
                and where the money was earned.
                Box 1 wages on the W-2 are defined by 26 U.S.C. § 3401.
                This definition of "wages" describes the types of payments that are
                to be included in box 1 part of the W-2. Because the United States
                government taxes many different people under many different
                circumstances the tax laws are quite complicated. This is just
                another example of the complicity of these laws. A persons place of
                birth does have a bearing on their tax liability in this country.
                This statement is supported by the exemption from the definition
                of "wages" for a citizen of the United States for payments received
                while working for a non-governmental company in this country.
                Please see the attached copy of the definition of wages. Also
                notice the many exemptions that apply to definition of wages under §
                3401. One of these exceptions is the basis for this letter. If you
                will give the exception at 26 U.S.C. § 3401 (a)(8)(A)(i) a good read
                you will see that -
                "Sec. 3401. - Definitions
                (a) Wages
                For purposes of this chapter, the term ''wages'' means all
                remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for
                services performed by an employee for his employer, including the
                cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any
                medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include
                remuneration paid -

                (8)(A)(i) for services for an employer (other than the United States
                or any agency thereof) - performed by a citizen of the United States
                if, at the time of the payment of such remuneration, it is
                reasonable to believe that such remuneration will be excluded from
                gross income under section 911;"

                As you can see from this exception to the definition of the
                term "wages", payments that could reasonably be expected to be
                excluded from gross income under section 911 would not be included
                in the computation of wages in block 1 on the W-2, if you are a
                citizen of the UnitedStates. If you are not aware what Section 911
                governs in the tax laws of the United States this statement would
                mean nothing. Well I looked up section 911 and determined that
                section 911 is the controlling laws governing foreign earned
                income. As an employee of [Employer] working and living in [State]
                I do not feel that I would be subject to any foreign earned income
                tax rules for working and getting paid in [State] by an [State]
                Corporation. I also feel that [Employer] should be "reasonable to
                believe that such remuneration will be excluded from gross income
                under section 911." Because of this exception in the tax laws I am
                entitled to have my citizenship recognized by [Employer] along with
                the advantages that the citizenship affords.
                I know that [Employer] would not intentionally discriminate against
                me because of my national origin. None of the money paid to me by
                [Employer] would qualify as gross income under section 911.
                Therefore, under the current circumstances surrounding the money
                paid to me by [Employer], the amount that should be entered into
                block one on the W-2 should be "0". [Employer] is required under
                the tax laws to report to the Federal Government in a way that
                complies with the law as they are written.
                [Employer] established that I was a citizen of the United
                States before I went to work. Therefore, I am entitled to the
                rights and privileges of every citizen of the United States. When
                [employer] reports that I have received payments that have been
                summed up in block one of the W-2, [Employer] creates a presumption
                on the part of the Federal Government that I have received foreign
                earned wages. This presumption creates a hardship on me that I
                should not have to deal with.
                I realize that all payroll folks use the pamphlets published
                by the IRS to guide them in the preparation of the different payroll
                reporting forms. These pamphlets are not the law passed by the
                United States Congress and the IRS will readily admit that. The IRS
                pamphlets do not reflect the detail of the statutes and regulations
                and this exception to my particular circumstances is clearly
                reflected in the statute. I will include a cut and pasted
                reproduction of the statute passed by Congress but I suggest that
                you have your legal department check the cite for accuracy.
                The tax laws are written in a manner that makes them nearly
                impossible for the layman to understand. If you convert the
                discriptive phrases in the statute to a sentance that you can
                understand the law would be much easier to understand. With this in
                mind the statute I am bringing to your attention would go more or
                less like this.

                If you're a citizen of the United States and the money your paid for
                working cannot be included in a foreign earned income tax return
                then the payments do not qualify as wages under 26 U.S.C. 3401.

                If after you read the information supplied here and the
                statutes that govern this particular situation and you do not agree
                with me, please supply me with the statutes or regulations that
                would overrule my legal position or your legal basis for refusing my
                request.

                Thank you in advance,
                [Sign Here]






                --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <supra94tt@c...> wrote:
                > Ok guys, I'll be sending this to my "employer" for the past year
                and the
                > coming one, let me know what you think and if I need any
                corrections?
                > You may use/change it for your own needs, Rob NJ. Here it is :
              • Margot A DeArman
                Greetings Rob, etal, Nice little self rebutted ambiguous contrary document... will not accomplish the job it is intended for, but will alert the employer and
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                  Greetings Rob, etal,

                  Nice little self rebutted ambiguous contrary document... will not
                  accomplish the job
                  it is intended for, but will alert the employer and the IRS that you do
                  not know
                  and understand what you are doing! Too may entrapping terms like capital
                  C
                  "Citizen", the term "of", the use of "State of", instead of Ohio state or
                  whatever.
                  "Resident" is another one, and we will not even get into the "domestic
                  address"
                  And so on! I did this same stuff in the early 80's and it caused more
                  trouble that
                  you can imagine. Finally found a IRS "Catalog of Forms, Letters &
                  Notices" in
                  the GPO listings and ordered it! It lists all the forms, letter and
                  notices the IRS
                  uses and sends out and who can send them and what they are used for!
                  I have 2 different copies and I think they quit printing it about the
                  time they
                  passed the Taxpayer Bill of Rights.

                  [Bear's Note: I sell that off my web page www.irs-armory.com: http://www.freedivorceforms.net/standringorder.php
                  It is $39.00]

                  As for filing documents on your employer...
                  Why not use their Form? The one specifically design to tell the IRS and
                  your
                  employer that you are in law "foreign" to the "United States" as defined
                  in
                  26 USC 7701.

                  That form is the Form W-8 Certificate of Foreign Status. What??? The
                  employer
                  will not accept your claim of being foreign to DC? Call the IRS and tell
                  them
                  that the employer will not honor their Form. Or just tell the employer
                  you
                  will be filing a complaint with the IRS for their failure to honor an IRS
                  Form.

                  Problem over.... except when you file a Form 1040 at the end of the
                  year...
                  The proper Form would be the 1040NR for "nonresident". See, they left you
                  a way out, but you just have to find the proper Forms.

                  Doe volente,
                  James DeArman

                  On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 03:12:23 +0100 "Rob" <supra94tt@...> writes:
                  Ok guys, I’ll be sending this to my “employer” for the past year and the
                  coming one, let me know what you think and if I need any corrections? You
                  may use/change it for your own needs, Rob NJ. Here it is :
                  <<NAME/ Address/ City/ State/ ZIP>>
                • Margot A DeArman
                  Greetings, Serious BAD Advice here: ... A Form W-4 is for Citizens of the United States . Exempt or not it is NOT the proper Form. Use a Form W-8
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                    Greetings,
                     
                    Serious BAD Advice here:
                    On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 18:29:03 +0100 "j kocourek" <jkoc@...> writes:
                    >
                    Give them an exempt form W-4 or one with 9 exemptions
                    > Forget what you lost from
                    > past withholding.  They won't
                    bother you as long as they are "fat
                    > dumb and happy".  This is one
                    of the times that being right and
                    > telling the truth will get you
                    SCREWED.
                    >
                    >
                    A Form W-4 is for "Citizens of the United States". Exempt or not it is
                    NOT the proper Form.  Use a Form W-8 "Certificate of foreign Status"
                    and do it according to its instructions. Then you can complain to the IRS
                    that the company will not honor their Forms... and watch the scrambling!
                    And you can go back 3 years.

                    Deo volente,
                    James DeArman
                  • Nick
                    Pardon my little communique, but, I did this route back in 1994. The IRS was rather pleased to take my W-8 but told my employer to extract 30 percent
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                      Pardon my little communique, but, I did this route back in 1994. The
                      IRS was rather pleased to take my W-8 but told my employer to
                      extract 30 percent withholding for being a non resident alien.

                      The problem you have is that your realtionship with your SS# MAKES
                      you a "Citizen of the United States" and therefore the W-4 IS the
                      proper form to use. However, it might behoove you to use an inlieu W-
                      4 that does not have your SS# on it beforehand claiming your proper
                      statuts.

                      I would contact We the people and get one. My concern is that they
                      butchered that document. Go to the original people that made that
                      document and get it. Ask Chancellor at Zeroincomefilers for the
                      original of that.




                      --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Margot A DeArman
                      <lookin2c@j...> wrote:

                      > A Form W-4 is for "Citizens of the United States". Exempt or not
                      it is
                      > NOT the proper Form. Use a Form W-8 "Certificate of foreign
                      Status"
                      > and do it according to its instructions. Then you can complain to
                      the IRS
                      > that the company will not honor their Forms... and watch the
                      scrambling!
                      > And you can go back 3 years.
                      >
                      > Deo volente,
                      > James DeArman
                    • Steve
                      I have to disagree with what George wrote below. In my humble opinion, it is the employers (for most of us) that are the real problem to an effective tax
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                        I have to disagree with what George wrote below. In my humble opinion, it is the employers (for most of us) that are the real problem to an effective tax revolt. This is where they have us by the gonads.

                        I work for a large 15000 employee corporation. I talked personally to the manager of payroll, and I am able to 'read between the lines' of what he told me. Here is it in summary.

                        "Turn in a W4 with over 10 exemptions or claiming exempt status and they will report this to the IRS within 3 months. Also, someone with the company will come and 'consult' with you to verify if your high exemptions or your exempt status is 'accurate'. If not accurate, they will consider you a 'tax evader'. He didn't directly say what would happen after that, but he said 'please don't do this, it will only cause you problems'. He did claim that the company would be fiduciarily liable if you got caught and jailed and couldn't pay the taxes, then the company would have to.'

                        I got the distinct impression that if a person filed a W4 of this type, their days at the company would be numbered, and the reason for termination would have NOTHING to do with taxes. Plus my state is an 'at will' employment state.

                        What will I have gained if I lose my job? It is called cutting off my nose to spite my face, and THAT is where the IRS has us by the balls.

                        Steve
                        <George wrote: Unless, you run the company, keep a low profile. Give them an
                        exempt form W-4 or one with 9 exemptions. Forget what you lost from
                        past withholding. They won't bother you as long as they are "fat
                        dumb and happy".>
                      • Dave Miner
                        Steve -- You have made an important point, and one that some on this board seem to not be aware of. To complete a Form W-4 with a large amount of exemptions
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 6, 2003
                          Steve --
                           
                          You have made an important point, and one that some on this board seem to not be aware of.
                           
                          To complete a Form W-4 with a large amount of "exemptions" is fraudulent.  The Employer is required by the IRC to ship these fraudulent Forms W-4 to a specific office (I forget, but it seems to me it is the Philadelphia office).  The IRS has the option of charging you a $500 penalty for submitting a fraudulent Form with an intent to evade paying taxes.    The IRS has trained employers (perhaps correctly) to see a fraudulent Form W-4 as an illegal activity to evade paying taxes, and has implied (definitely wrongly) that the employer could get into trouble if they have more than one of these "criminals" working for them.
                           
                          So a Form W-4 with 9 or 99 exemptions will only get you into trouble, and may get you fired.
                           
                          On the other hand, an "exempt" Form W-4 is an entirely different issue.  The IRS will often challenge these exempt Forms W-4 somewhere between 3 and 6 months after receiving them from your employer.  Most of my clients have escaped IRS attention in this, and it seems that after 6 months the IRS doesn't do anything.  However, within the 3-6 month timeframe, the IRS will often charge you the same $500 penalty and tell your employer to deduct maximum amounts from your paycheck.  Then you have a long process of education to help your employer understand that it is breaking the law to ignore your exempt Form W-4 and follow the IRS instructions.  And, as has been pointed out by some here, putting the employer in a postion of obeying the IRS or obeying the employee often results in the employee becoming unemployed.
                           
                          Still, as some have pointed out here, signing ANY IRS form declares you to be a taxpayer (subject to the so-called income tax laws).  You cannot claim to be a non-taxpayer (not subject to the so-called income tax laws) and then complete and sign taxpayer forms.  This dichotomy carries with it certain jurisdiction problems, and a difficult battle.  It is a winnable battle, but it will be difficult.
                           
                          Alternative strategies are so unknown to employers that you must hold several hours of training classes in order to educate your employer to the point that you can exercise these alternatives without getting fired.
                           
                          The bottom line is simple -- it costs to exercise your rights.  Who was it that said, "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong?"
                           
                          There is no risk-free means to resist the IRS.
                           
                          Yours in freedom,
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Steve
                          Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:09 PM
                          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] One way to handle your employer...W-2 rebuttal

                          I work for a large 15000 employee corporation.  I talked personally to the manager of payroll, and I am able to 'read between the lines' of what he told me.  Here is it in summary.

                          "Turn in a W4 with over 10 exemptions or claiming exempt status and they will report this to the IRS within 3 months.  Also, someone with the company will come and 'consult' with you to verify if your high exemptions or your exempt status is 'accurate'.  If not accurate, they will consider you a 'tax evader'.  He didn't directly say what would happen after that, but he said 'please don't do this, it will only cause you problems'.  He did claim that the company would be fiduciarily liable if you got caught and jailed and couldn't pay the taxes, then the company would have to.'
                        • Alan Bacon (sui Juris)
                          No one cares what the law is any more. Might makes right! Here is an Asseveration of Status (W-8) but it, too, gets you nowhere! Asseveration of Status
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 7, 2003
                            No one cares what the "law" is any more. Might makes right!
                            Here is an Asseveration of Status (W-8) but it, too, gets you nowhere!

                            Asseveration of Status
                            (Substitute W-8 Form)

                            1. I am of lawful age and I am competent to make this Asseveration of
                            Status.

                            2. I am a non-immigrant, non-naturalized, non-resident alien, non-
                            taxpayer, natural born free American, Sovereign man and an inhabitant
                            of a geographical area in a State of the American Union known as the
                            Texas Republic.

                            3. I am an American and nonresident alien with respect to the "United
                            States" *(ie, the District of Columbia, Guam, American Samoa, Virgin
                            Islands, Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, etc.) with no income
                            effectively connected with a trade or business (26 USC 7701(a) (26))
                            within the "United States" (government).

                            4. I have never knowingly, willingly, voluntarily and intentionally
                            inhabited the state of the forum (Forum Contractus in Latin).

                            5. I have never been involved in any taxable "trade or business"
                            activity under 27 Code of Federal Regulations pursuant to commerce in
                            Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms, State or Federal.

                            6. That this Asseveration of Status is to be used in lieu of Form W-
                            8, specifically;

                            "Use Form W-8 or a substitute form containing a substantially
                            similar statement to tell the payor . . . that you are a nonresident
                            alien individual, foreign entity, or exempt foreign person not
                            subject to certain U.S. information return, reporting or back-up
                            withholding rules."

                            * Volume 20: Corpus Juris Secundum PP 1785:
                            "The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect
                            to a State."

                            Sincerely;

                            www.taxtruth4u.com has other information and recommends a company
                            that only takes 7% to administer the paperwork. EXEMPT in block 7
                            only works when you have SS and MC taken out (10.51%) . . . so, one
                            way or another, someone ELSE get some of your "compensation for
                            labor".

                            At one point I found out the definition OF "compensation for labor" @
                            26CFR9.22b-1; "Compensation for labor is a direct item of income not
                            taxable by the federal Government." But, do a search on the internet
                            and you get "Reserved" for that cite (?)

                            Crime Pays !!!
                          • j kocourek
                            Dave, I know of no IRC section(s) which require anyone to send a W-4 to the IRS for review or apporval. I have seen such demand in the Circular E publication
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 10, 2003
                              Dave,

                              I know of no IRC section(s) which require anyone to send a W-4 to the IRS for review or apporval. I have seen such demand in the Circular E publication and in that demand they want a copy of all exempt W-4s and ones with 10 or more exemptions.

                              If I am wrong, please correct me.


                              ______________________________________________________________
                              > Od: "Dave Miner" <dminer@...>
                              > Komu: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                              > CC:
                              > Datum: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:45:09 -0500
                              > Předmět: Re: [tips_and_tricks] One way to handle your employer...W-2 rebuttal
                              >
                              > Steve --
                              >
                              > You have made an important point, and one that some on this board seem to not be aware of.
                              >
                              > To complete a Form W-4 with a large amount of "exemptions" is fraudulent. The Employer is required by the IRC to ship these fraudulent Forms W-4 to a specific office (I forget, but it seems to me it is the Philadelphia office).

                              ------- Snipped -----------

                              --------------------
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                            • Dave Miner
                              j -- The same section of the IRC (Section 3402) that required exempt Forms W-4 to be sent to the IRS also requires the employer to forward to it any Forms W-4
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 10, 2003
                                j --

                                The same section of the IRC (Section 3402) that required exempt Forms W-4 to
                                be sent to the IRS also requires the employer to forward to it any Forms W-4
                                that the employer has reason to believe might be "questionable." The
                                subsection for the exempt form is 3402(n), but I forget the subsection off
                                the top of my head for the questionable form. The employer does not sent
                                the typical Form W-4 to the IRS, only questionable ones and exempt ones.

                                I would look up the subsection for you but I am fighting a Windows XP worm
                                problem right now.

                                Yours in Freedom,

                                Dave Miner
                                www.FreedomSite.net
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