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RE: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

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  • Dessie Andrews
    When you are applying for a government benefit, you supplicate yourself to their authority. Do whatever they tell you in order to obtain your benefit, but
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2003

      When you are applying for a government benefit, you supplicate yourself to their authority.  Do whatever they tell you in order to obtain your benefit, but don’t stand on your rights after that. 

       

      I’m not being judgmental about your situation.  We often do things out of necessity.  However, the hooks and tentacles are strong and long, just be aware that is what you are doing. 

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: KnJ [mailto:knj_inc@...]
      Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:23 PM
      To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

        Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

       

      Thanks Much!

      Keith



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    • Advancepum@aol.com
      The best way is not to sign. If you sign with extreme prejudice That reserves all of your rights but you have still signed a contract. Paul ... The best way
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
        The best way is not to sign. If you sign "with extreme prejudice" That reserves all of your rights but you have still signed a contract.
        Paul

        Hi,

        Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 



        Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

         


        Thanks Much!

        Keith




      • gary
        The W-9 is not sent to the IRS, it is used to fill out the 1099 that will be sent to the IRS. If you do not fill out the form and give your SSN, most likely
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
          The W-9 is not sent to the IRS, it is used to fill out the 1099 that will be sent to the IRS.  If you do not fill out the form and give your SSN, most likely they will take you off the Section 8 program.
           
          Gary
          -----Original Message-----
          From: KnJ [mailto:knj_inc@...]
          Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:23 PM
          To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

            Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

           

          Thanks Much!

          Keith



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          tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • John
          Any time someone is forcing you to sign your name and you do not freely give your signature then a statement to that effect is necessary to give notice that
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 4, 2003
            Any time someone is forcing you to sign your name and you do not
            freely give your signature then a statement to that effect is
            necessary to give notice that the form is null and void as a matter
            of law. It makes no difference if the form is IRS - SSA - or any
            other form state or federal. All you have to do is to attach a
            simple statement to the form that says you did not freely give your
            signature on the form and you do not support the jurat statement in
            any fashion. Also mention that the form is null and void as a matter
            of law. That should about do it. The form cannot be used as a basis
            for anything. One thing about signatures - THEY MUST BE GIVEN OF
            YOUR OWN FREE WILL. If a signature is not given freely then it is
            coereced under threat or duress. The law of necessity allows us to
            eat or earn a living in whatever legal manner we can. If its legal
            then we cannot be forced to do anything to get the job. If for some
            reason you feel a notice attached to the form will cause you to loose
            a job or prejudice you in some way then send the notice in after the
            form is filed. Be sure and cite the form, date etc and send the
            notice to the offending agency. Keep your records to prove they got
            the notice that the signature was forced.
            John
          • bowman7a
            Let s first start with the form on its face, and the instructions that accompany it. The IRS claims that this Form is required to be provided to all payors of
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 4, 2003
              Let's first start with the form on its face, and the instructions
              that accompany it.
              The IRS claims that this Form is required to be provided to all
              payors of amounts which exceed $600 for the year for payee TIN
              certification, or that the payor is to "backup withhold" 31% of the
              remuneration paid.

              The Form states on its face in the upper right hand corner, "Do not
              send to the IRS"
              Since there is no law which absolutely requires that a U.S. Citizen
              register with the Social Security Administration, and thus be
              assigned a number, there can be, and is, no law requiring the
              providing of a number to a payor.
              This is proved by:

              26 CFR § 301.6109-1(d)

              26 U.S.C. § 6041(a)

              26 CFR § 1.6041-6

              26U.S.C. § 6041A(f)(1)

              26 CFR 1.6041A-1(a) (for a pdf copy click here)



              This legal position is also proved by the fact that there is no
              Office of Management and Budget (OMB) control number on the form.
              In 1980, the Paperwork Reduction Act required that all Executive
              Agencies, including the IRS, were required to submit all Forms
              required to be completed by U.S. Citizens to the OMB for approval,
              along with the citation of the law which the forms were fulfilling.

              This was so that Citizens would know if the form they were being
              presented with was a legal form that they were required by some law
              to submit, or if it was a form stemming from merely an offhand or
              casual request for which there is no binding legal authority.

              There is no OMB Control number on the W-9, therefore there we know
              that there must be no law requiring the submittal of a number to a
              payor, at least in regard to U.S. Citizens. Therefore, the IRS
              neither has authority to use it as any form of evidence, nor can they
              require that it be sent to them. It appears that the comment in the
              upper right hand corner is an admission of this so that if it was
              sent to them, they have plausible deniability that it was not sent to
              them in accordance with any kind of legal request or demand, under
              any assumed authority.

              As for the claim by the IRS that, if the Form is not provided, the
              payor is to impose backup withholding of 31%, we must examine the
              form. On the form you will see that the person executing this form is
              stating that the number provided by them as theirs is correct,
              under "penalty of perjury". This is what the form requires, yet the
              statute regarding backup withholding for payee certification failure
              (that is, failure to certify that your TIN/EIN/SSN is correct), 26
              U.S.C. § 3406(e)(1), plainly states that the number can only be
              required, by the Secretary, to be provided under penalty of perjury
              in regards to "interest, dividends, patronage dividends, and amount
              subject to broker reporting."

              Obviously this provision of law is restricted in its application. The
              remainder of subsection (e) only covers back-up withholding from the
              use of an incorrect number or a notified underreporting. So, if you
              did not provide an incorrect number, and are not required to provide
              a number "under penalties of perjury" pursuant to this section, or
              the payor has not been notified of an underreporting, can the backup
              withholding in this section of law legally apply?

              In order to answer that question we must have the following
              components, that we will simultaneously reveal are missing:
              First there must be a "manner required" by which a number must be
              submitted (which there is not in regards to U.S. Citizens as they are
              not by law subject to the Social Security Act and cannot be compelled
              to possess or apply for an SSN/TIN).

              Second, there has to be a "failure" to provide a number, which there
              cannot be as there is no law requiring a U.S. Citizen to be subject
              to the Social Security Act, to then be required to have a number, to
              fail to provide. The IRS has failed to provide the OMB with a law
              requiring U.S. Citizens to provide numbers on the W-9. We doubt that
              they will any time soon.

              Third, there has to be a "reportable payment" pursuant to 26 U.S.C. §
              3406(b)(1).

              Fourth, in order to have a reportable payment, there must be a
              payment that is "required" to be submitted to the IRS on a return, as
              set forth in 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(2) & (3).

              So what happens if a return is not required to be made?
              The two main sections of law requiring the filing of a return as
              cited by 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(2) & (3) that apply to most people
              are §§ 6041 and 6041A . The first and easiest section of law to deal
              with is § 6041.

              If you have read the law, you will see a complete absence of any
              requirement by § 6041 for the payee to provide a TIN/SSN/EIN. This
              eliminates § 6041 from being a law that requires the payee to provide
              a TIN/SSN/EIN, therefore, § 3406(a)(1)(A) backup withholding has a
              difficult time applying to this particular reportable payment. (NOTE:
              A regulation can not legally expand the meaning of the words in the
              statute, thus any requirement in the regulation for a number is
              beyond the statutory authority.)

              The regulations for this section (26 CFR § 1.6041-6 ) concurs with
              the requirement of the name and address of the recipient of the
              remuneration to be on the form. Still there is no requirement that an
              identifying number be placed on the form pursuant to this regulation.
              Instead, the regulation defers the requirement to 26 U.S.C. § 6109,
              which alludes to a prior legal requirement (26 CFR § 301.6109-1(b)).
              This section of the regulations will be reviewed in detail later in
              this article, but at this time we will make some comments regarding
              26 U.S.C. § 6109. The most important thing to point out about this
              statute is that the law presumes or assumes that the person whom the
              return is to be made on has a TIN to begin with. Since subsection (d)
              states that the SSN of an individual is to be their TIN, where is the
              legal requirement of U.S. Citizens to have such a number in the first
              place, so as to then provide it? (See our SSA article)

              Also, the law is constructed upon, and is therefore dependent upon, a
              prior or pre-existing requirement that a person provide an
              identifying number to a person making a return regarding them. This
              law assumes at subsections (a), (a)(2), and (h)(3) that there is a
              legal requirement, so that one must provide the assumed/presumed
              number, as set forth in a specific regulation as required in a
              statute.

              Where is the regulation requiring the number on the return?
              Is it us, or are you also seeing this search for the regulatory
              requirement to disclose a TIN to be circular between 26 CFR §§ 1.6041-
              6, 26 U.S.C. § 6109, and 26 CFR § 301.6109-1?

              It is remarkable to note, in subsection (c), that the Secretary is
              only given authority to require information to be given in the
              assignment process, which is obviously set forth in the Social
              Security Act, as the SSN for individuals is to be the TIN. Still, the
              Secretary has not been given authority to assign numbers to any
              person under this law, just require specific information of those in
              the application process. (See the SSA article) Therefore, there is
              still no law enacted by the authority of the Congress that requires
              the assignment of a social security number card to U.S. Citizens.

              As our argument stands, "Please show us the statute which forces, by
              the Rule of law and power of our Government, application,
              registration, and assignment without the voluntary act of
              application?"

              The next law is § 6041A, and if you examine subsection (a)(2) there
              is no requirement that the payor provide a number to the IRS
              regarding such returns. Since this is not all that is located in this
              subsection, I must point out that the return is to be made according
              to the "forms or regulations" set forth by the Secretary. (NOTE: The
              regulations are law, not the forms. This is a well-determined fact.
              Also, how do we know which Form is required to be issued according to
              this statute when there are no regulations?) Subsection (f)(1)
              appears to be an after thought, as the entirety of § 6041A
              (otherwise it would be §6042) states that the payee must provide his
              identification number upon request of the payor, and that the number
              is required to be included on the return pursuant to subparagraph (2).

              By what authority does the law assume that the payee has an
              identifying number?
              Nevertheless, the statute says that the number will only be required
              to be provided (assuming there is an identifying number) pursuant to
              the requirements of the regulation the Secretary promulgates. So, we
              must now go to 26 CFR and find a regulation for 6041A, but we cannot
              as there are neither any Temporary nor any Permanent regulations for
              this law. Thus, there is no requirement under the internal revenue
              laws for a person to provide an identifying number to a payor
              pursuant to 26 CFR § 6041A, therefore, backup withholding pursuant to
              § 3406(a)(1)(A) cannot apply as there is no manner required by law to
              provide a number.

              On the other hand, there is a "Proposed regulation" for § 6041A at 26
              CFR § 1.6041A-1 (for a pdf copy click here). It has been proposed
              since 1986 and it reveals that no return is required to be filed
              pursuant to § 6041A , if the remuneration paid is "excludable" from
              gross income pursuant to a section of the internal revenue laws, if
              the payee informs the payor of this fact and the payor does not know
              the facts to be otherwise. Therefore, if the payee provides a
              statement under penalty of perjury, to the payor, that the money paid
              to the payee is remuneration excluded from gross income, there is no
              requirement by law for a return to be made. Therefore, backup
              withholding would not apply, as the payment is not a payment that
              requires a return pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(3).

              It is apparent that back-up withholding can only be assessed against
              a person who is required to provide a social security number "under
              penalties of perjury"(a non-resident alien), has lied when he claimed
              to have provided a correct number "under penalties of perjury",
              and/or is a non-resident alien who is required to possess a social
              security number, who is thereby subject to taxation under Subtitle C
              of the IRC, "Employment Taxes" and the income tax, and has not
              provided a social security number as required by 26 U.S.C. § 3406(a)
              (1). This must be the case, as it is well established in our SSA
              article that the Social Security Act and Subtitle C are not
              necessarily applicable to U.S. Citizens, and § 3406 being in Subtitle
              C, Employment Taxes, is wholly dependent upon the person in question
              being subject to the Social Security Act.

              We must note at this time that 26 U.S.C. § 3406(h) states that the
              money that is backup withheld is to be treated as taxes withheld
              under § 3402. This would indicate that no amount of money may be
              withheld under backup withholding without a hand delivered letter
              from the Local District Director, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 7512 and
              its regulations, and not the whimsy of any low level IRS Official,
              mere publication, or unsigned computer form letter.

              In an attempt to close this article, it would not be fair to leave
              out the only point that most tax professionals love to make when
              sending out a payor's demand for identifying numbers. I must point
              out that even if a return was required, which is not always the case,
              the only penalty is in Proposed Regulation 26 CFR § 1.6041A-1(h).

              I suppose it is a good thing that there are no actual regulations
              regarding the provision of the number for § 6041A. Then again the
              section of law cited in the proposed regulation at subsection (h) is
              IRC (U.S.C.) § 6676 which has been repealed. Even IRC § 6724, which
              was indicated by the EEOC as the section of law now carrying the
              penalty for the payor not providing the number they have, lacks any
              regulatory requirement that a payee provide a TIN to a payor, as the
              penalty claimed in its regulation 26 CFR § 301.6724-1(e)(2) is cited
              as 26 U.S.C. § 6723.

              This law imposes a $50 penalty for not providing a number when
              requested to do so. The specifics of such a circumstance are set
              forth in 26 CFR § 301.6723-1(a)(4)(c). This penalty is wholly
              dependent upon the requirement of the regulations of 26 U.S.C. § 6109
              (26 CFR § 301.6109-1) where there is no requirement that anyone be
              forced or required by a payor to provide a social security number to
              the requestor, only that the payor make the request for the number as
              so required (subsection (c)).

              It is a fact of law that there is a requirement in subsection (b)
              that U.S. persons (not identified as Citizens) furnish their number
              if "required" on a return, upon request. This assumes that the U.S.
              person has a number, which we have shown in our SSA article to not be
              required of U.S. Citizens.

              Although subsection (b) mentions a penalty, the requirement to
              provide the number is phrased to be dependent upon a pre-existing or
              outside requirement for disclosure relating to the return. The only
              foundation for such a requirement can only be in the specific
              statutes regarding the specific returns, as all authority proceeds
              from that point for the Secretary to implement.

              So, who is this U.S. person? Is it possible that a U.S. person is not
              a Citizen?
              It is apparent that the U.S. Citizen has the right to not participate
              in the benefits of the social security program as set forth in
              subsection (d), but they must obtain a number if they are "required"
              to furnish a number pursuant to subsection (b). Still, subsection (b)
              does not take the responsibility for creating the requirement
              referenced in (d).

              When examining the alleged requirement chasing itself between
              subsections (b)) and (d) of 301.6109-1, which came first, the
              requirement to apply for a number to provide it for return purposes,
              or the requirement to provide a number and thus the need to apply for
              it?

              Is it any wonder that the author researcher told you that his head
              was spinning when we began this article? Did you think that he was
              kidding?

              Is it us, or are you also seeing this search for the regulatory
              requirement to obtain a taxpayer identification number to be
              circular, and simultaneously dependent upon a disclosure requirement
              that does not exist?

              If there was a law requiring that one have a number, why must there
              be a law allegedly requiring that the person so required make a
              voluntary application for that which would then be forcibly issued?
              Can the $50 penalty or the backup withholding (pursuant to 26 U.S.C.
              § 3406(a)) be legally and lawfully applied to the U.S. Citizen (who
              does not have to have a number) if the person making a return decides
              that the Citizen is required to have the return issued on him,
              despite the fact that § 6041(a) & (c) does not require that he
              provide a number and therefore there is no requirement that a number
              be placed on the return as set forth in the words of the statute?

              Can the $50 penalty or the backup withholding (pursuant to 26 U.S.C.
              § 3406(a)) be legally and lawfully applied to the U.S. Citizen (who
              does not have to have a number) if the person making the return
              decides that the Citizen is required to have the return issued on
              him, despite the fact that § 6041A has no regulation requiring that
              the Citizen provide a number to be placed on the return, or ignores
              the statement by the Citizen that there is no return required as the
              remuneration is excluded from "Gross income"?

              This should be a very simple question to answer "NO" to, when the
              facts show that the Statutes 6041 and 6041A have either failed to
              give the Secretary authority to require that a number be provided to
              the payor, or the Secretary has not promulgated a regulation
              requiring the providing of a TIN.

              Look at the bottom sections of 26 CFR § 301.6109-1(c). The original
              intent by the framers of this nation was that the bills and debts
              would be shouldered upon the foreigners sending money, coming to
              work, or establishing businesses in this land. With this still being
              the actual scheme of the wording of the present tax laws, why is it
              that it has not been until December 31, 1996 that the Secretary of
              the Treasury now shows some interest in numbering the non-resident
              aliens in this country and tracking the money they are earning in our
              free domestic market, a market purchased and preserved with the blood
              of those in America's military history?

              Please make use of the Political Action letters we have composed for
              your use, so that our Government Officials will be asked the real
              hard questions, and be informed that the People of America know the
              truth behind the lies now, and we will not go away…We are AMERICA,
              and we want corrective action taken regarding this circus of
              obfuscation.

              This present method of operation, by our government, veiled in
              obscurity and perpetuated by an organizational lack of accountability
              has placed the duty of correcting these problems in our hands.
              Rightfully so, as the choice we make with our hands moves the
              vehicles known as our Government Officials.

              Now is the time to fine tune the law to eliminate these much abused
              loopholes and double speak exposed in this article, and set free the
              U.S. Citizens who believe in freedom, independence, and enterprise,
              so that they may be left alone and free to prosper.
            • scott
              John, and to all, It doesn t matter one way or the other what you do or do not do, these people simply do not follow the law. First off the Damn IRS is not
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
                John, and to all,
                It doesn't matter one way or the other what you do or do not do, these
                people simply do not follow the law. First off the Damn IRS is not part of
                the United States Government and are a Corporation contracted with Financial
                Management Systems which is the true Delegate of the Secretary of Treasure
                to Collect all Debts for the United States including delinquent taxes. The
                IRS has limited contractual responsibilities to FMS which currently another
                patriot is trying to find out just what those responsibilities are for fact,
                and with any hope at all will know by the end of this month. I have always
                signed my tax returns with "Signed under duress and protest" since I was a
                kid, it didn't make any difference.
                I agree with you all that people are being abused in the courts and sent to
                jail for laws that do not exist. The only way I can see to solve this
                problem is to RICO the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, ATTORNEYS, AND BAR ASSOCIATIONS.
                We must teach the people how to file and be successful at filing these RICO
                suits. This will tie up the courts and start removing and punishing the
                forces that are not following the Common Law and Constitutional Laws of this
                country.
                Admittedly I am not quite there myself and have been taking the time to
                learn and have spent huge sums of monies on legal books, tapes, and time
                researching. I fly around the country attending seminars to learn and hear
                what others opinions are. Some are worth the trip and expense and some are
                not. The bottom line is-IT IS ONLY YOU AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE that will be
                defending your butt in any court. All the little things won't matter if you
                are not aware and can not use the FRof Civil Procedures, FRof Criminal
                Procedures, Your local Court Rules of Civil and Criminal Procedures, and
                your local court rules. It's like prying the mouth of the Lyon open to
                de-tooth it, alot of us are getting bit time and time again, some with
                severity and some not, but none the less we are getting bit and we are not
                getting any teeth pulled. Studying the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and
                the Federalist Papers is a great insight to knowing your rights as an
                American. Learning from other Patriots what works and what doesn't is
                admirable qualities that most people do not want to take the time to learn
                or deal with, they are simply to scared to do anything and are in consent
                hope things will clear up and go better for them. In other words someone
                will come up with the magical silver bullet and our world will be saved.
                You and the rest of those reading this post know this is not how it works.
                Reality is that Bob Schultz like him or not. has gotten the grass roots
                movement going on the "Answer the questions on the Redress of Grievances"
                it is nation wide. Now the question is can we as patriots get behind such a
                movement and add to it the additional things that need to be done;
                impeachment of Bush, Congressmen and women, Senators, that are not abiding
                by the laws of our Constitution? Will WE THE PEOPLE (not affiliated with We
                the People of Colorado) let us join in and will they adapt and grow beyond
                the one thing they are doing right now? Can we get the Millions of Patriots
                together to fight for our rights in a collective bargaining unit to go in
                strength to the Capitol and oust the criminals and crooks and replace them
                with GOD Serving Servants of the People, for the People? Can we start one
                here in Colorado that will be able to remove Judges and Magistrates and
                Cannon those that are not elected to the point they are removed for the good
                of the public? I can tell you that as wild and crazy as it sounds Rick
                Stanley here in Denver along with the PACT is making a difference. It is
                real and is a grass roots movement to protect the pact members from corrupt
                courts, criminal JBT's, and defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights of
                those members of the Pact.
                As for the IRS. I gave them warning along with any JBT's that I would meet
                force with force should they try and commit crimes upon my family, myself,
                and my fellow pact members. I have filed complaints and evidence,
                documents, etc. in the area of some 5,500 papers with TIGA, IRS, DOJ, Etc.
                only to get back B.S. responses and especially TIGA who can and won't do a
                damn thing. SO WORDS AND THEIR LAWS do not work, what else is left to the
                American but, Self Defense and Protecting his GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.
                Good Day.
                Scott Williams
                Denver, Colorado
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "John" <genman_2000@...>
                To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:23 PM
                Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: How do I sign IRS forms?


                >
              • Russell Mortland
                U.S.C. Title 28 1746(1) Without Prejudice ... From: scott [mailto:scott@wsgsite.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:21 AM To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
                  Message

                  U.S.C. Title 28 1746(1) Without Prejudice

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: scott [mailto:scott@...]
                  Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:21 AM
                  To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                  GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site.  Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn't receive a gift of money when you earned it did you?
                  Scott Williams
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: KnJ
                  Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:23 PM
                  Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                  Hi,

                   

                     Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 

                   

                    Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

                   

                  Thanks Much!

                  Keith



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                • scott
                  GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site. Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn t receive a gift of
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
                    GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site.  Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn't receive a gift of money when you earned it did you?
                    Scott Williams
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: KnJ
                    Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:23 PM
                    Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                    Hi,

                     

                       Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 

                     

                      Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

                     

                    Thanks Much!

                    Keith



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