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RE: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

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  • Dessie Andrews
    When you are applying for a government benefit, you supplicate yourself to their authority. Do whatever they tell you in order to obtain your benefit, but
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2003
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      When you are applying for a government benefit, you supplicate yourself to their authority.  Do whatever they tell you in order to obtain your benefit, but don’t stand on your rights after that. 

       

      I’m not being judgmental about your situation.  We often do things out of necessity.  However, the hooks and tentacles are strong and long, just be aware that is what you are doing. 

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: KnJ [mailto:knj_inc@...]
      Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:23 PM
      To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

        Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

       

      Thanks Much!

      Keith



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    • KnJ
      Hi, Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury? I m not interested in giving my social security
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
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        Hi,

         

           Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 

         

          Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

         

        Thanks Much!

        Keith

      • Advancepum@aol.com
        The best way is not to sign. If you sign with extreme prejudice That reserves all of your rights but you have still signed a contract. Paul ... The best way
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
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          The best way is not to sign. If you sign "with extreme prejudice" That reserves all of your rights but you have still signed a contract.
          Paul

          Hi,

          Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 



          Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

           


          Thanks Much!

          Keith




        • gary
          The W-9 is not sent to the IRS, it is used to fill out the 1099 that will be sent to the IRS. If you do not fill out the form and give your SSN, most likely
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
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            The W-9 is not sent to the IRS, it is used to fill out the 1099 that will be sent to the IRS.  If you do not fill out the form and give your SSN, most likely they will take you off the Section 8 program.
             
            Gary
            -----Original Message-----
            From: KnJ [mailto:knj_inc@...]
            Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:23 PM
            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

              Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

             

            Thanks Much!

            Keith



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          • John
            Any time someone is forcing you to sign your name and you do not freely give your signature then a statement to that effect is necessary to give notice that
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 4, 2003
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              Any time someone is forcing you to sign your name and you do not
              freely give your signature then a statement to that effect is
              necessary to give notice that the form is null and void as a matter
              of law. It makes no difference if the form is IRS - SSA - or any
              other form state or federal. All you have to do is to attach a
              simple statement to the form that says you did not freely give your
              signature on the form and you do not support the jurat statement in
              any fashion. Also mention that the form is null and void as a matter
              of law. That should about do it. The form cannot be used as a basis
              for anything. One thing about signatures - THEY MUST BE GIVEN OF
              YOUR OWN FREE WILL. If a signature is not given freely then it is
              coereced under threat or duress. The law of necessity allows us to
              eat or earn a living in whatever legal manner we can. If its legal
              then we cannot be forced to do anything to get the job. If for some
              reason you feel a notice attached to the form will cause you to loose
              a job or prejudice you in some way then send the notice in after the
              form is filed. Be sure and cite the form, date etc and send the
              notice to the offending agency. Keep your records to prove they got
              the notice that the signature was forced.
              John
            • bowman7a
              Let s first start with the form on its face, and the instructions that accompany it. The IRS claims that this Form is required to be provided to all payors of
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 4, 2003
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                Let's first start with the form on its face, and the instructions
                that accompany it.
                The IRS claims that this Form is required to be provided to all
                payors of amounts which exceed $600 for the year for payee TIN
                certification, or that the payor is to "backup withhold" 31% of the
                remuneration paid.

                The Form states on its face in the upper right hand corner, "Do not
                send to the IRS"
                Since there is no law which absolutely requires that a U.S. Citizen
                register with the Social Security Administration, and thus be
                assigned a number, there can be, and is, no law requiring the
                providing of a number to a payor.
                This is proved by:

                26 CFR § 301.6109-1(d)

                26 U.S.C. § 6041(a)

                26 CFR § 1.6041-6

                26U.S.C. § 6041A(f)(1)

                26 CFR 1.6041A-1(a) (for a pdf copy click here)



                This legal position is also proved by the fact that there is no
                Office of Management and Budget (OMB) control number on the form.
                In 1980, the Paperwork Reduction Act required that all Executive
                Agencies, including the IRS, were required to submit all Forms
                required to be completed by U.S. Citizens to the OMB for approval,
                along with the citation of the law which the forms were fulfilling.

                This was so that Citizens would know if the form they were being
                presented with was a legal form that they were required by some law
                to submit, or if it was a form stemming from merely an offhand or
                casual request for which there is no binding legal authority.

                There is no OMB Control number on the W-9, therefore there we know
                that there must be no law requiring the submittal of a number to a
                payor, at least in regard to U.S. Citizens. Therefore, the IRS
                neither has authority to use it as any form of evidence, nor can they
                require that it be sent to them. It appears that the comment in the
                upper right hand corner is an admission of this so that if it was
                sent to them, they have plausible deniability that it was not sent to
                them in accordance with any kind of legal request or demand, under
                any assumed authority.

                As for the claim by the IRS that, if the Form is not provided, the
                payor is to impose backup withholding of 31%, we must examine the
                form. On the form you will see that the person executing this form is
                stating that the number provided by them as theirs is correct,
                under "penalty of perjury". This is what the form requires, yet the
                statute regarding backup withholding for payee certification failure
                (that is, failure to certify that your TIN/EIN/SSN is correct), 26
                U.S.C. § 3406(e)(1), plainly states that the number can only be
                required, by the Secretary, to be provided under penalty of perjury
                in regards to "interest, dividends, patronage dividends, and amount
                subject to broker reporting."

                Obviously this provision of law is restricted in its application. The
                remainder of subsection (e) only covers back-up withholding from the
                use of an incorrect number or a notified underreporting. So, if you
                did not provide an incorrect number, and are not required to provide
                a number "under penalties of perjury" pursuant to this section, or
                the payor has not been notified of an underreporting, can the backup
                withholding in this section of law legally apply?

                In order to answer that question we must have the following
                components, that we will simultaneously reveal are missing:
                First there must be a "manner required" by which a number must be
                submitted (which there is not in regards to U.S. Citizens as they are
                not by law subject to the Social Security Act and cannot be compelled
                to possess or apply for an SSN/TIN).

                Second, there has to be a "failure" to provide a number, which there
                cannot be as there is no law requiring a U.S. Citizen to be subject
                to the Social Security Act, to then be required to have a number, to
                fail to provide. The IRS has failed to provide the OMB with a law
                requiring U.S. Citizens to provide numbers on the W-9. We doubt that
                they will any time soon.

                Third, there has to be a "reportable payment" pursuant to 26 U.S.C. §
                3406(b)(1).

                Fourth, in order to have a reportable payment, there must be a
                payment that is "required" to be submitted to the IRS on a return, as
                set forth in 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(2) & (3).

                So what happens if a return is not required to be made?
                The two main sections of law requiring the filing of a return as
                cited by 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(2) & (3) that apply to most people
                are §§ 6041 and 6041A . The first and easiest section of law to deal
                with is § 6041.

                If you have read the law, you will see a complete absence of any
                requirement by § 6041 for the payee to provide a TIN/SSN/EIN. This
                eliminates § 6041 from being a law that requires the payee to provide
                a TIN/SSN/EIN, therefore, § 3406(a)(1)(A) backup withholding has a
                difficult time applying to this particular reportable payment. (NOTE:
                A regulation can not legally expand the meaning of the words in the
                statute, thus any requirement in the regulation for a number is
                beyond the statutory authority.)

                The regulations for this section (26 CFR § 1.6041-6 ) concurs with
                the requirement of the name and address of the recipient of the
                remuneration to be on the form. Still there is no requirement that an
                identifying number be placed on the form pursuant to this regulation.
                Instead, the regulation defers the requirement to 26 U.S.C. § 6109,
                which alludes to a prior legal requirement (26 CFR § 301.6109-1(b)).
                This section of the regulations will be reviewed in detail later in
                this article, but at this time we will make some comments regarding
                26 U.S.C. § 6109. The most important thing to point out about this
                statute is that the law presumes or assumes that the person whom the
                return is to be made on has a TIN to begin with. Since subsection (d)
                states that the SSN of an individual is to be their TIN, where is the
                legal requirement of U.S. Citizens to have such a number in the first
                place, so as to then provide it? (See our SSA article)

                Also, the law is constructed upon, and is therefore dependent upon, a
                prior or pre-existing requirement that a person provide an
                identifying number to a person making a return regarding them. This
                law assumes at subsections (a), (a)(2), and (h)(3) that there is a
                legal requirement, so that one must provide the assumed/presumed
                number, as set forth in a specific regulation as required in a
                statute.

                Where is the regulation requiring the number on the return?
                Is it us, or are you also seeing this search for the regulatory
                requirement to disclose a TIN to be circular between 26 CFR §§ 1.6041-
                6, 26 U.S.C. § 6109, and 26 CFR § 301.6109-1?

                It is remarkable to note, in subsection (c), that the Secretary is
                only given authority to require information to be given in the
                assignment process, which is obviously set forth in the Social
                Security Act, as the SSN for individuals is to be the TIN. Still, the
                Secretary has not been given authority to assign numbers to any
                person under this law, just require specific information of those in
                the application process. (See the SSA article) Therefore, there is
                still no law enacted by the authority of the Congress that requires
                the assignment of a social security number card to U.S. Citizens.

                As our argument stands, "Please show us the statute which forces, by
                the Rule of law and power of our Government, application,
                registration, and assignment without the voluntary act of
                application?"

                The next law is § 6041A, and if you examine subsection (a)(2) there
                is no requirement that the payor provide a number to the IRS
                regarding such returns. Since this is not all that is located in this
                subsection, I must point out that the return is to be made according
                to the "forms or regulations" set forth by the Secretary. (NOTE: The
                regulations are law, not the forms. This is a well-determined fact.
                Also, how do we know which Form is required to be issued according to
                this statute when there are no regulations?) Subsection (f)(1)
                appears to be an after thought, as the entirety of § 6041A
                (otherwise it would be §6042) states that the payee must provide his
                identification number upon request of the payor, and that the number
                is required to be included on the return pursuant to subparagraph (2).

                By what authority does the law assume that the payee has an
                identifying number?
                Nevertheless, the statute says that the number will only be required
                to be provided (assuming there is an identifying number) pursuant to
                the requirements of the regulation the Secretary promulgates. So, we
                must now go to 26 CFR and find a regulation for 6041A, but we cannot
                as there are neither any Temporary nor any Permanent regulations for
                this law. Thus, there is no requirement under the internal revenue
                laws for a person to provide an identifying number to a payor
                pursuant to 26 CFR § 6041A, therefore, backup withholding pursuant to
                § 3406(a)(1)(A) cannot apply as there is no manner required by law to
                provide a number.

                On the other hand, there is a "Proposed regulation" for § 6041A at 26
                CFR § 1.6041A-1 (for a pdf copy click here). It has been proposed
                since 1986 and it reveals that no return is required to be filed
                pursuant to § 6041A , if the remuneration paid is "excludable" from
                gross income pursuant to a section of the internal revenue laws, if
                the payee informs the payor of this fact and the payor does not know
                the facts to be otherwise. Therefore, if the payee provides a
                statement under penalty of perjury, to the payor, that the money paid
                to the payee is remuneration excluded from gross income, there is no
                requirement by law for a return to be made. Therefore, backup
                withholding would not apply, as the payment is not a payment that
                requires a return pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 3406(b)(3).

                It is apparent that back-up withholding can only be assessed against
                a person who is required to provide a social security number "under
                penalties of perjury"(a non-resident alien), has lied when he claimed
                to have provided a correct number "under penalties of perjury",
                and/or is a non-resident alien who is required to possess a social
                security number, who is thereby subject to taxation under Subtitle C
                of the IRC, "Employment Taxes" and the income tax, and has not
                provided a social security number as required by 26 U.S.C. § 3406(a)
                (1). This must be the case, as it is well established in our SSA
                article that the Social Security Act and Subtitle C are not
                necessarily applicable to U.S. Citizens, and § 3406 being in Subtitle
                C, Employment Taxes, is wholly dependent upon the person in question
                being subject to the Social Security Act.

                We must note at this time that 26 U.S.C. § 3406(h) states that the
                money that is backup withheld is to be treated as taxes withheld
                under § 3402. This would indicate that no amount of money may be
                withheld under backup withholding without a hand delivered letter
                from the Local District Director, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 7512 and
                its regulations, and not the whimsy of any low level IRS Official,
                mere publication, or unsigned computer form letter.

                In an attempt to close this article, it would not be fair to leave
                out the only point that most tax professionals love to make when
                sending out a payor's demand for identifying numbers. I must point
                out that even if a return was required, which is not always the case,
                the only penalty is in Proposed Regulation 26 CFR § 1.6041A-1(h).

                I suppose it is a good thing that there are no actual regulations
                regarding the provision of the number for § 6041A. Then again the
                section of law cited in the proposed regulation at subsection (h) is
                IRC (U.S.C.) § 6676 which has been repealed. Even IRC § 6724, which
                was indicated by the EEOC as the section of law now carrying the
                penalty for the payor not providing the number they have, lacks any
                regulatory requirement that a payee provide a TIN to a payor, as the
                penalty claimed in its regulation 26 CFR § 301.6724-1(e)(2) is cited
                as 26 U.S.C. § 6723.

                This law imposes a $50 penalty for not providing a number when
                requested to do so. The specifics of such a circumstance are set
                forth in 26 CFR § 301.6723-1(a)(4)(c). This penalty is wholly
                dependent upon the requirement of the regulations of 26 U.S.C. § 6109
                (26 CFR § 301.6109-1) where there is no requirement that anyone be
                forced or required by a payor to provide a social security number to
                the requestor, only that the payor make the request for the number as
                so required (subsection (c)).

                It is a fact of law that there is a requirement in subsection (b)
                that U.S. persons (not identified as Citizens) furnish their number
                if "required" on a return, upon request. This assumes that the U.S.
                person has a number, which we have shown in our SSA article to not be
                required of U.S. Citizens.

                Although subsection (b) mentions a penalty, the requirement to
                provide the number is phrased to be dependent upon a pre-existing or
                outside requirement for disclosure relating to the return. The only
                foundation for such a requirement can only be in the specific
                statutes regarding the specific returns, as all authority proceeds
                from that point for the Secretary to implement.

                So, who is this U.S. person? Is it possible that a U.S. person is not
                a Citizen?
                It is apparent that the U.S. Citizen has the right to not participate
                in the benefits of the social security program as set forth in
                subsection (d), but they must obtain a number if they are "required"
                to furnish a number pursuant to subsection (b). Still, subsection (b)
                does not take the responsibility for creating the requirement
                referenced in (d).

                When examining the alleged requirement chasing itself between
                subsections (b)) and (d) of 301.6109-1, which came first, the
                requirement to apply for a number to provide it for return purposes,
                or the requirement to provide a number and thus the need to apply for
                it?

                Is it any wonder that the author researcher told you that his head
                was spinning when we began this article? Did you think that he was
                kidding?

                Is it us, or are you also seeing this search for the regulatory
                requirement to obtain a taxpayer identification number to be
                circular, and simultaneously dependent upon a disclosure requirement
                that does not exist?

                If there was a law requiring that one have a number, why must there
                be a law allegedly requiring that the person so required make a
                voluntary application for that which would then be forcibly issued?
                Can the $50 penalty or the backup withholding (pursuant to 26 U.S.C.
                § 3406(a)) be legally and lawfully applied to the U.S. Citizen (who
                does not have to have a number) if the person making a return decides
                that the Citizen is required to have the return issued on him,
                despite the fact that § 6041(a) & (c) does not require that he
                provide a number and therefore there is no requirement that a number
                be placed on the return as set forth in the words of the statute?

                Can the $50 penalty or the backup withholding (pursuant to 26 U.S.C.
                § 3406(a)) be legally and lawfully applied to the U.S. Citizen (who
                does not have to have a number) if the person making the return
                decides that the Citizen is required to have the return issued on
                him, despite the fact that § 6041A has no regulation requiring that
                the Citizen provide a number to be placed on the return, or ignores
                the statement by the Citizen that there is no return required as the
                remuneration is excluded from "Gross income"?

                This should be a very simple question to answer "NO" to, when the
                facts show that the Statutes 6041 and 6041A have either failed to
                give the Secretary authority to require that a number be provided to
                the payor, or the Secretary has not promulgated a regulation
                requiring the providing of a TIN.

                Look at the bottom sections of 26 CFR § 301.6109-1(c). The original
                intent by the framers of this nation was that the bills and debts
                would be shouldered upon the foreigners sending money, coming to
                work, or establishing businesses in this land. With this still being
                the actual scheme of the wording of the present tax laws, why is it
                that it has not been until December 31, 1996 that the Secretary of
                the Treasury now shows some interest in numbering the non-resident
                aliens in this country and tracking the money they are earning in our
                free domestic market, a market purchased and preserved with the blood
                of those in America's military history?

                Please make use of the Political Action letters we have composed for
                your use, so that our Government Officials will be asked the real
                hard questions, and be informed that the People of America know the
                truth behind the lies now, and we will not go away…We are AMERICA,
                and we want corrective action taken regarding this circus of
                obfuscation.

                This present method of operation, by our government, veiled in
                obscurity and perpetuated by an organizational lack of accountability
                has placed the duty of correcting these problems in our hands.
                Rightfully so, as the choice we make with our hands moves the
                vehicles known as our Government Officials.

                Now is the time to fine tune the law to eliminate these much abused
                loopholes and double speak exposed in this article, and set free the
                U.S. Citizens who believe in freedom, independence, and enterprise,
                so that they may be left alone and free to prosper.
              • scott
                John, and to all, It doesn t matter one way or the other what you do or do not do, these people simply do not follow the law. First off the Damn IRS is not
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
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                  John, and to all,
                  It doesn't matter one way or the other what you do or do not do, these
                  people simply do not follow the law. First off the Damn IRS is not part of
                  the United States Government and are a Corporation contracted with Financial
                  Management Systems which is the true Delegate of the Secretary of Treasure
                  to Collect all Debts for the United States including delinquent taxes. The
                  IRS has limited contractual responsibilities to FMS which currently another
                  patriot is trying to find out just what those responsibilities are for fact,
                  and with any hope at all will know by the end of this month. I have always
                  signed my tax returns with "Signed under duress and protest" since I was a
                  kid, it didn't make any difference.
                  I agree with you all that people are being abused in the courts and sent to
                  jail for laws that do not exist. The only way I can see to solve this
                  problem is to RICO the JUDGES, MAGISTRATES, ATTORNEYS, AND BAR ASSOCIATIONS.
                  We must teach the people how to file and be successful at filing these RICO
                  suits. This will tie up the courts and start removing and punishing the
                  forces that are not following the Common Law and Constitutional Laws of this
                  country.
                  Admittedly I am not quite there myself and have been taking the time to
                  learn and have spent huge sums of monies on legal books, tapes, and time
                  researching. I fly around the country attending seminars to learn and hear
                  what others opinions are. Some are worth the trip and expense and some are
                  not. The bottom line is-IT IS ONLY YOU AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE that will be
                  defending your butt in any court. All the little things won't matter if you
                  are not aware and can not use the FRof Civil Procedures, FRof Criminal
                  Procedures, Your local Court Rules of Civil and Criminal Procedures, and
                  your local court rules. It's like prying the mouth of the Lyon open to
                  de-tooth it, alot of us are getting bit time and time again, some with
                  severity and some not, but none the less we are getting bit and we are not
                  getting any teeth pulled. Studying the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and
                  the Federalist Papers is a great insight to knowing your rights as an
                  American. Learning from other Patriots what works and what doesn't is
                  admirable qualities that most people do not want to take the time to learn
                  or deal with, they are simply to scared to do anything and are in consent
                  hope things will clear up and go better for them. In other words someone
                  will come up with the magical silver bullet and our world will be saved.
                  You and the rest of those reading this post know this is not how it works.
                  Reality is that Bob Schultz like him or not. has gotten the grass roots
                  movement going on the "Answer the questions on the Redress of Grievances"
                  it is nation wide. Now the question is can we as patriots get behind such a
                  movement and add to it the additional things that need to be done;
                  impeachment of Bush, Congressmen and women, Senators, that are not abiding
                  by the laws of our Constitution? Will WE THE PEOPLE (not affiliated with We
                  the People of Colorado) let us join in and will they adapt and grow beyond
                  the one thing they are doing right now? Can we get the Millions of Patriots
                  together to fight for our rights in a collective bargaining unit to go in
                  strength to the Capitol and oust the criminals and crooks and replace them
                  with GOD Serving Servants of the People, for the People? Can we start one
                  here in Colorado that will be able to remove Judges and Magistrates and
                  Cannon those that are not elected to the point they are removed for the good
                  of the public? I can tell you that as wild and crazy as it sounds Rick
                  Stanley here in Denver along with the PACT is making a difference. It is
                  real and is a grass roots movement to protect the pact members from corrupt
                  courts, criminal JBT's, and defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights of
                  those members of the Pact.
                  As for the IRS. I gave them warning along with any JBT's that I would meet
                  force with force should they try and commit crimes upon my family, myself,
                  and my fellow pact members. I have filed complaints and evidence,
                  documents, etc. in the area of some 5,500 papers with TIGA, IRS, DOJ, Etc.
                  only to get back B.S. responses and especially TIGA who can and won't do a
                  damn thing. SO WORDS AND THEIR LAWS do not work, what else is left to the
                  American but, Self Defense and Protecting his GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.
                  Good Day.
                  Scott Williams
                  Denver, Colorado
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "John" <genman_2000@...>
                  To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:23 PM
                  Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: How do I sign IRS forms?


                  >
                • Russell Mortland
                  U.S.C. Title 28 1746(1) Without Prejudice ... From: scott [mailto:scott@wsgsite.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:21 AM To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
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                    Message

                    U.S.C. Title 28 1746(1) Without Prejudice

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: scott [mailto:scott@...]
                    Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:21 AM
                    To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                    GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site.  Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn't receive a gift of money when you earned it did you?
                    Scott Williams
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: KnJ
                    Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:23 PM
                    Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                    Hi,

                     

                       Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 

                     

                      Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

                     

                    Thanks Much!

                    Keith



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                  • scott
                    GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site. Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn t receive a gift of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 5, 2003
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                      GO to WWW.givemeliberty.org and download the w9 on their web site.  Also remember the 1099 is a class 5 gift tax and you certainly didn't receive a gift of money when you earned it did you?
                      Scott Williams
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: KnJ
                      Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:23 PM
                      Subject: [tips_and_tricks] How do I sign IRS forms?

                      Hi,

                       

                         Can someone recommend to me the best way that I can sign this W-9 form and not be held liable for perjury?  I’m not interested in giving my social security number anymore to the Section 8 program so that they can report to the IRS tenant rents received during the year. I was under the impression that there was a way to sign your name and then put above it a particular UCC Law/Article with reference to reserving my rights some how, thereby canceling out the statement above my signature that says: “Under penalty of perjury I certify: that my SSN is correct etc…”. 

                       

                        Rather than starting a fight with the Section 8 program people about the undisputable fact that I am within my rights NOT to have to fill out the form I thought that I would simply fill it out just so that there is no bureaucratic slow down in the receipt of my rent payments.  Does anyone know what people do with these W9 forms anyway (they are even in closing documents for required execution)?  Do they actually send them into the IRS for certification or are they simply a scare tactic to ensure that the correct SSN is given?

                       

                      Thanks Much!

                      Keith



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