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Re: [tips_and_tricks] using words to deceive

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  • jay hawk
    Hi Michael, thanks for the reply. I think we are on the same page, I don t believe congress intended the states of the union to be in this definition. They
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 5 5:21 PM
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      Hi Michael, thanks for the reply. I think we are on the same page, I don't believe congress intended the states of the union to be in this definition. They support this contention by having removed Alaska and Hawaii from the definition as each subsequently changed from territories to states of the union.

      What i was actually thinking about has to do with proper sentence structure and using the wrong words.....


      --- On Fri, 4/5/13, Mike <micflah@...> wrote:

      From: Mike <micflah@...>
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] using words to deceive
      To: "tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com" <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Friday, April 5, 2013, 4:30 PM

       

      >i'm curious if you guys see the same thing i am seeing

      Someone said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." 

      I have no clue if I am seeing the same thing you are seeing but like the definitions at 26 U.S.C. § 3121(e)(1) and 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(9) these definitions exclude the fifty (50) states of the Union. 

      ....

      Michael

      ....
    • Walin
      Guys, If you ll look at b), you ll see several states listed.  In many another paper I ve seen the several states united and several states mentioned.  The
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 5 5:26 PM
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        Guys, If you'll look at b), you'll see "several states" listed.  In many another paper I've seen the several states united and several states mentioned.  The USA is an alliance of the several states.  The U.S. is the federal government.  I left the original here (highlighted) for you to easily see it.   Wally

        --- On Thu, 4/4/13, jay <voipophile@...> wrote:

        From: jay <voipophile@...>
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] using words to deceive
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 5:29 PM

         

        Sometimes it's interesting to look at treasury regulations, especially if you wanna study how to use words to deceive. Check out the following definitions from 26 CFR 31.3121(e)-1. I'll comment on what i think about them, but first i'll let folks from the group comment, i'm curious if you guys see the same thing i am seeing.

        § 31.3121(e)-1 State, United States, and citizen.

        (a) When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term "State" includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, the Territories of Alaska and Hawaii before their admission as States, and (when used with respect to services performed after 1960) Guam and American Samoa.

        (b) When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term "United States", when used in a geographical sense, means the several states (including the Territories of Alaska and Hawaii before their admission as States), the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. When used in the regulations in this subpart with respect to services performed after 1960, the term "United States" also includes Guam and American Samoa when the term is used in a geographical sense. The term "citizen of the United States" includes a citizen of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands, and, effective January 1, 1961, a citizen of Guam or American Samoa.

      • BOB GREGORY
        *It is 26USC 1 that imposes the tax and not the regulation. It says: * 26 USC § 1 - Tax imposed (a) * Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 5 11:27 PM
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          *It is 26USC 1 that "imposes" the tax and not the regulation.

          It says:
          *
          26 USC § 1 - Tax imposed
          (a) * Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses *
          There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
          (1) every married individual (as defined in section
          7703<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7703>)
          who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section
          6013<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6013>,
          and
          (2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section
          2<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/2>
          (a)<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/usc_sec_26_00000002----000-#a>
          ), a tax determined in accordance with the following table...:
          *
          The interesting point is that no LIABILITY for the tax is stated. Every
          other internal revenue tax covered in other parts of the code contains a
          specific statement of who is liable for that tax. Various persons and
          organizations have offered awards of varying amounts up to $50,000 for
          anyone who can show any statement of liability for the tax on "income."

          Another interesting point is that the tax is "imposed" on the "taxable
          income" of the persons listed. The Supreme Court has ruled that a right
          cannot be taxed and that people have the right to earn a living. It has
          also ruled that everything that comes in is not taxable.

          Businesses are allowed to deduct all of the costs of doing
          business---utilities, rent, salaries, and a variety of other expenses. But
          individuals are not allowed to deduct the costs of their food, utilities,
          rent, transportation to and from work, etc.

          Bob

          =====================
          =======================*

          On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Mike <micflah@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > >i'm curious if you guys see the same thing i am seeing
          >
          > Someone said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
          >
          > I have no clue if I am seeing the same thing you are seeing but like the
          > definitions at 26 U.S.C. § 3121(e)(1) and 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(9) these
          > definitions exclude the fifty (50) states of the Union.
        • jay hawk
          Ok Wally, you re getting close. Let s look at the first sentence of paragraph (b): When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term “United States”,
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 6 11:07 AM
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            Ok Wally, you're getting close. Let's look at the first sentence of paragraph (b): "When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term “United States”, when used in a geographical sense, means the several states (including the Territories of Alaska and Hawaii before their admission as States), the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.".

            As you astutely point out, the phrase "several states" is typically used to refer to the 50 states of the union. It is not a term given a special definition to my knowledge though (please someone correct me if they know different), so the common usage prevails. When i was in grade school (a long time ago), we were taught sentence structure and spelling (not sure if that is done these days any more). If you are familiar with syntax, the phrase inside the parenthesis refers to and qualifies the term just before it (several states). I can easily prove it is totally wrong, that the territories Alaska and Hawaii were never included in the several states (at least if that phrase means the states of the union). Also, they were never admitted as "States" (the territories listed in paragraph (a)). At the time the statute was written, these territories were in that definition, and they were either purchased or stolen, not admitted.

            Bottom line, this regulation is not only deceptive, but they have switched words and used the wrong words. I believe this was not an "honest" mistake, but a deliberate act of deception. The first sentence in (b) would be correct (technically but still deceptive) if it were to read: "When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term “United States”, when used in a geographical sense, means the States (including the Territories of Alaska and Hawaii before their admission to the several states), the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.".

            Now this sentence is at least syntactically correct. Do you guys see the point i'm making?

            - Woody


            --- On Fri, 4/5/13, Walin <walin_1@...> wrote:

            From: Walin <walin_1@...>
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] using words to deceive
            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, April 5, 2013, 7:26 PM

             

            Guys, If you'll look at b), you'll see "several states" listed.  In many another paper I've seen the several states united and several states mentioned.  The USA is an alliance of the several states.  The U.S. is the federal government.  I left the original here (highlighted) for you to easily see it.   Wally

            --- On Thu, 4/4/13, jay <voipophile@...> wrote:
            ....

          • Klaus Becker
            The word several is defined as more than two, often used to designate a number greater than one. (Black s 5th Ed). And when used to modify the word
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 7 6:53 PM
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              The word "several" is defined as "more than two, often used to designate a number greater than one." (Black's 5th Ed). And when used to modify the word "State" usually refers to "federal" States and not "union" states. When the govt USC writers mean to identify the "50 union states" that phrase will be specifically written into the text. The example is: Title 26, Section 6103(b)(5)(A) which reads:

              "(5) State - The term "State" means
              (A) any of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, . . . . . . . etc." (check it out)

              I believe this is the only place in Title 26 definitions that actually uses the phrase "the 50 States." Thus one can legitimately conclude that when ever that phrase is missing, the term "State" includes only the "federal" States (i.e. territories and possessions) and not the "50 union states." Another technique of purposeful deception/deflection by definition. Use this piece of knowledge when looking at the 14th Amendment, etc. etc.So when you see the phrase "the several states" does it mean several "federal" states or the 50 union states?? It seems to me that "50" is considerably more than "several." It has been mentioned (correctly or not) that "several" is more than one and less than seven, but can't quote an authority on that.
              Klaus
            • E Junker
              (b): When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term “United States”, when used in a geographical sense, means the several states (including the
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 7 9:50 PM
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                (b): "When used in the regulations in this subpart, the term “United States”,
                when used in a geographical sense, means the several states (including
                the Territories of Alaska and Hawaii before their admission as States),
                the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the
                Virgin Islands."
                If the word "including" is placed in a sentence that means only those items listed are included and all others are excluded.  Therefore, in the above usage, "United States" means the several states which are only the Territories of Alaska, Hawaii (before admission), DC, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. Only. All others are excluded. 

                The courts have held that using the word "including" excludes all else not listed.



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