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Re: [tips_and_tricks] On Sovereignty not Being Subject to Law

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  • originalfrogfrmr
    ... Sorry answering so late...still recovering from a fire-bombing here... anyway, can you provide the verbatim text of the law requiring you to produce
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 5, 2013
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      > Of interest, perhaps, is an experience I had in municipal court. (N.M.)
      > The reason for being in court was an arrest and incarceration one evening
      > by a Uniformed County Employer.
      > I refused to provide ID., the driver was arrested on suspicion of DUI.
      > At the "arraignment" the following morning  I was asked by the judge,
      > "How do you plead?"
      > My response was, (verbatim), "I don't know how to plead."
      > Judge immediately responded, "Case dismissed."

      Sorry answering so late...still recovering from a fire-bombing here...
      anyway, can you provide the verbatim text of the law requiring you to
      produce identification? Or the charges on the complaint? I've been
      operating under the belief that there was no such law, as it had been the
      subject of a supreme court case back in the 1980's... don't remember the
      case right a this moment... a black guy was carrying a TV down the street
      and got asked for ID and he refused to ID himself. I think it was in
      Texas or California... [Moderator/Bear: Kolender v. Lawson, 461 US 352 - Supreme Court 1983] Last year I had a stand-off here when 3 cops
      wanted me to ID myself, and they could produce no law. They lied and gave
      a fake code number that had nothing to do with it to see if I'd fall for
      it. I didn't. They settled on calling me "John Doe"! Then they punished
      the lead cop who failed to win the issue. I had mercy on him after seeing
      him suffer for a few hours (questioning my neighbors who also did not know
      my name) and so I arranged for him to view a piece of paper that had my
      name on it. He asked if that was my name and I said I wasn't going to ID
      myself, but he could assume anything he had to assume to get off duty
      late. I told Eric that I had nothing against him personally and that this
      just came with the job, that I give everybody a hard time. I told him I'd
      like to be friends with him. I never saw him again, nor did the subjects
      raised that day ever get raised again.

      Anyway, the trick with "ID" is, people who APPLY for it AGREE to produce
      it when asked to do so in the initial application. There is no law
      requiring one to apply for any privilege. Applying is voluntary.

      I just now spent 45 minutes looking for that case, didn't find it, but I
      did find this nice newer brief:

      http://epic.org/privacy/hiibel/epic_amicus.pdf

      I just tell them, "I don't like to be the first person to put my name into
      the record. I think my accuser should be the one to do that, don't you
      agree?" I've never got anything but mumbling for an answer.

      Regards,

      FF
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