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Effect of "signed under duress" on Govern. Docs

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  • David Toppin
    That is great! More evidence the [government] NEEDs us to contract with them. Sign everything under protest . In my case, I told the judge I would do
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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      That is great! More evidence the [government] NEEDs us to contract with them.
      Sign everything "under protest". In my case, I told the judge I would do
      whatever he wanted me to "under threat, duress, and fear of going to jail"
      and he said, you MUST agree to appear VOLUNTARILY as if there is anything
      voluntary about ANY court process where you are the defendant





      Dave
    • jay hawk
      It doesn t often seem that way, but the courts are essentially based on mutual consent. They use words to trick you into thinking otherwise. Several ago one of
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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        It doesn't often seem that way, but the courts are essentially based on mutual consent. They use words to trick you into thinking otherwise. Several ago one of the Supreme Court justices (sorry I can't recall which one right now) got a little attention (at least from a few folks that aren't sound asleep) by saying that everyone in jail is there voluntarily. I'm sure some folks on this list have a better memory than I and may recall who said it.


        --- On Mon, 4/1/13, David Toppin <dave@...> wrote:

        From: David Toppin <dave@...>
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Effect of "signed under duress" on Govern. Docs
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, April 1, 2013, 1:34 PM

         

        That is great! More evidence the [government] NEEDs us to contract with them.
        Sign everything "under protest". In my case, I told the judge I would do
        whatever he wanted me to "under threat, duress, and fear of going to jail"
        and he said, you MUST agree to appear VOLUNTARILY as if there is anything
        voluntary about ANY court process where you are the defendant

        Dave


      • David Toppin
        That was allegedly Robert Bork as I heard it, but that could be wrong. I couldn t find that actual quote when I looked From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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          That was allegedly Robert Bork as I heard it, but that could be wrong.  I couldn't find that actual quote when I looked

           

           

          From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay hawk
          Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 3:49 PM
          To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Effect of "signed under duress" on Govern. Docs

           

            Snipped, so Barry doesn't get mad……

        • BOB GREGORY
          *Attorney General Cornyn s letter is a classic example of high-level weasel wording. He gives no examples whatever of a document annotated with Signed under
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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            *Attorney General Cornyn's letter is a classic example of high-level weasel
            wording. He gives no examples whatever of a document annotated with
            "Signed under duress and coersion" but sticks to examples that were "Signed
            under protest." Then in the summary he uses the term "may indicate." So
            what do you have? More or less nothing.

            Moderator/Bear: Yes, plus, beneath the signature is the wrong place to put it. Your signature is at the end of the agreement indicating an agreement with what preceded it. What you put under the signature, to my take, is not part of everything preceding your signature. Research on the phrase "ambiguous signature" will give more information.

            LEGAL DEFINITION:*
            du·ress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-] Show IPA
            noun
            1.
            compulsion by threat or force <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/force>;
            coercion; constraint.
            2. Law. such constraint or coercion as
            will<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/will>
            render void a contract or other legal act entered or performed under its
            influence
            *

            >
            >
          • Levi Philos
            Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork (recently deceased): http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/Definitions/freemaninvestigation.htm ...That is,
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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              Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork (recently deceased):
              http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/Definitions/freemaninvestigation.htm
              ...That is, legally being able to act for him/herself namely, having the legal capacity, ability, and power to manage his/her own affairs, as opposed to someone having relinquished his/her power of judicial action, by giving up his/her power of attorney, and becoming, thereby, a ward of the court. That is, someone considered of unsound mind and under the care of a guardian.

              Truly unbelievable! One is reminded of a remark by Judge Bork, to the effect that 90% of those in prison are there voluntarily i.e., by consent and permission! (You notice that he was not confirmed as a Supreme Court Justice!) Which brings to mind a Supreme Court case, in 1794, where one reads that:

              The only reason, I believe, that a free man is bound by human law, is, that he binds himself. Chisholm v, Georgia, 2, Dall 440, 455.




              On 4/1/2013 1:48 PM, jay hawk wrote:
              It doesn't often seem that way, but the courts are essentially based on mutual consent. They use words to trick you into thinking otherwise. Several ago one of the Supreme Court justices (sorry I can't recall which one right now) got a little attention (at least from a few folks that aren't sound asleep) by saying that everyone in jail is there voluntarily. I'm sure some folks on this list have a better memory than I and may recall who said it.

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            • hobot
              ...
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2013
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                > Once in custody the jailers will want you to sign various
                > things and if you decline saying you do not understand and
                > need counsel first, they may charge you with Disorderly
                > Conduct-failure to sign, with its own trial date to deal with.

                > We need some feedback and examples on how to handle being
                > forced to sign things while in custody. If you sign you may
                < appear to some right or some defense.
                > hobot
                > >
                > > https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/49cornyn/op/1999/htm/jc0153.htm
                > >
                > > No wonder the jailers told
                > > me when asking for a signature said, "Just sign it, don't put anything
                > > else on there."
                > >
              • Chuck East
                What about using V.C. or Vi Coactus, meaning signed under constraint. Wikipedia definition follows: Vi coactus From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to:
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 4, 2013
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                  What about using V.C. or Vi Coactus, meaning signed under constraint.
                  Wikipedia definition follows:

                  Vi coactus

                  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                  Jump to: navigation, search

                  Vi coactus is a Latin term, abbreviated as V.C., and means: 'under constraint'. It is used to indicate an agreement made under duress.

                  An example of its usage is that of the Dutch 17th century statesman Cornelius de Witt, who was forced to sign the act for restoration of Stadholderate. After all the entreaties by his wife, though he signed the contract but only before adding V.C. to his signature. [1][dead link]



                  --- On Mon, 4/1/13, Legalbear <bear@...> wrote:

                  From: Legalbear <bear@...>
                  Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Effect of "signed under duress" on Govern. Docs
                  To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, April 1, 2013, 4:16 PM

                   

                  https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/49cornyn/op/1999/htm/jc0153.htm

                   

                  Big thanks to Hobot for this amazing link. No wonder the jailers told me when asking for a signature said, “Just sign it, don’t put anything else on there.”

                   

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                • originalfrogfrmr
                  ... I ve been saying it for years, based upon my years of experience in California where I have yet to see a proper arraignment, even in my own cases, even
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 5, 2013
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                    > It doesn't often seem that way, but the courts are essentially based on
                    > mutual consent. They use words to trick you into thinking otherwise.
                    > Several ago one of the Supreme Court justices (sorry I can't recall which
                    > one right now) got a little attention (at least from a few folks that
                    > aren't sound asleep) by saying that everyone in jail is there voluntarily.
                    > I'm sure some folks on this list have a better memory than I and may
                    > recall who said it.

                    I've been saying it for years, based upon my years of experience in
                    California where I have yet to see a proper arraignment, even in my own
                    cases, even when the judge has said,, "Oh, you want a PROPER
                    ARRAIGNMENT?", and then he goes on to fake one, and gets told, "close, but
                    no cigar!" and then they put it off for another two weeks, until 9
                    attempts (their seemingly maximum number) and then they dismiss for the
                    speedy trial rule or otherwise "dispose" of the problem case.

                    It's weird that in the nation in the world with the most prisoners, in the
                    state with the most prisoners, all those prisoners are there because they
                    were too lazy to read and think a little bit. They failed to have the
                    curiosity necessary to find out what steps their opponents had to take to
                    incarcerate or fine them, by reading the state constitution and Penal
                    Code. They failed to notice and act appropriately when their opponents
                    were unqualified to even speak in their presence in the courtroom! They
                    made admissions and confessions (the source of 90+% of convictions.) They
                    waive rights most times when asked to do so (beginning at the scene of the
                    "crime"). Mostly, they're morons, as Mark Dice so frequently proves in his
                    You-Tube videos.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7usCHnZ-8c

                    Regards,

                    FF
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