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Re: [tips_and_tricks] Have You Chosen that Which Cannot be Taken From You??

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  • Randy Garriss
    ... On Tue, 11/13/12, Legalbear  wrote: To those of you who say Sirach has no clue on leisure; in fact, he is so wrong, I labor with my hands and would
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 13, 2012
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      On Tue, 11/13/12, Legalbear  wrote:

      "To those of you who say Sirach has no clue on leisure; in fact, he is so wrong, I labor with my hands and would rather do that than pursue wisdom. "

       

      No one, I repeat no one, to my knowledge has yet, at least not myself, claimed that I would rather labor with my hands than to pursue wisdom..

       

      Again I will say to you, it is the denigration of the laborer by the writer of the book of Sirach that I have pointed to from the beginning to which I object.  For that reason I did not take the time to address the references you bring to mind once again as I really did not feel they were relevant to the issue I was raising. 

      The story of Mary and Martha pointed out that Martha was cumbered [or encumbered] by her labor.  This is akin to those who eat the bread of anxious toil as mentioned by the psalmist.

      I agree that we have to avoid being anxious for earthly needs.  But that doesn't mean we should quickly denigrate the spiritual state of the laborer in the manner that Sirach did as follows:

      38:25 “How can he get wisdom that holds the plough, and that enjoys the goad, that drives oxen, and is occupied in their labors, and whose talk is of bullocks? 26 He gives his mind to make furrows; and is diligent to give the kine fodder. 

       

      I have attempted to explain over and over that such a one, such a laborer, can get all the wisdom he needs by asking Father.  I see nothing in the recipe that requires one to first live a leisurely life before Father will grant any who ask the liberal wisdom that He gives to all who seek Him and His righteousness.

       

      The fact that a person labors for their livelihood does not necessarily mean that they live in a state of anxiety.  I don't think that the apostle was living in anxiety, providing his daily needs while making tents to provide for those needs.

       

      As far as the idle workers mentioned in Matthew, I don't believe the parable has anything to do with, nor is it designed to teach the merits of idleness.  Rather, if you read on, in verse 15 and 16, you will find that the parable deals with the envy of some workers in the face of the generosity of the owner of the vineyard.

       

      And of course all the references you point out from Matthew chapter 6, over and over again deal with the state of anxiousness.

       

      I remain of the solid conviction that even those who labor will be given liberal wisdom when they seek Father and the kingdom of righteousness.

       

    • Baruch HaShem
      With regard to to the following statements; My friend needs to understand that the Wisdom of ben Sirach is written as a hebraic pun. To understand this, The
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 14, 2012
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        With regard to to the following statements; My friend needs to understand that the Wisdom of ben Sirach is written as a hebraic pun.

        To understand this, The Hebrew word for wisdom (hokmah) is related to a root meaning "skill" or "care" and came to imply "skill in living."

        When you recall that the Master stated clearly in Mat 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Yahuwah." and Luke 4:4 "And Yahushuwah answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of Yahuwah."

        Ben Sirach poses a serious question, "How can we have 'skill in living' when living comes from 'very word of Yahuwah?' How can this be done when one constantly engages in manual labor? When will he have time to learn Torah?"

        --- On Wed,

        38:25 “How can he get wisdom that holds the plough, and that enjoys the goad, that drives oxen, and is occupied in their labors, and whose talk is of bullocks? 26 He gives his mind to make furrows; and is diligent to give the kine fodder. 

          I have attempted to explain over and over that such a one, such a laborer, can get all the wisdom he needs by asking Father.

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