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Re: On emitting bills of credit aka Federal Reserve Notes :-)

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  • Michael
    ... Michael s previous post comments = FF comments = ... I did not know that...obviously. Cheers, my good man! Always a delight to hear from you on this
    Message 1 of 11 , May 28, 2012
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      --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...> wrote:

      Michael's previous post comments = >>

      FF comments = >

      > > I am unaware of any "state" issuing bills of credit,

      > California.

      I did not know that...obviously.

      Cheers, my good man! Always a delight to hear from
      you on this board.


      > Does anyone have any idea of the multiples of the GDP that are
      > already owed to someone?

      Not sure that it matters. Could not tell you the exact
      multiple, but less than Japan. Owed to someone, or some
      entity?


      > > Via FF, via Merrill Jenkins, ask, What is the current account
      > > of money in the United States today, and how much of that is
      > > a dollar amount?

      > Ow! WOW!!! WHAT a MISQUOTE!!!! Fatal, too, if used in action in the
      > heat of a battle of wits with contenders who may or may not be
      > unarmed!!

      Apologies for that..."amount" should be "quantity!"

      > Unfortunately it was misunderstood and summarized
      > incorrectly. Did one READ Jenkins??

      Yes, read Jenkins, but my retention is not a sharp
      as your attention.

      > It is well known that the geographical area you describe
      > is reputed for its corruption across the board.

      Some things never change.

      > So, how IS anyone ever disqualified in Illinois?

      Judges ignore oath challenges for attorneys and
      themselves. Appellates back them up. The better
      alternative is to make more effective arguments,
      like the money issue...but a bit more effectively
      than I presented here. Still, my efforts have
      worked on several occasions.




      > > One judge, who saw the city attorney had no clue,
      > > asked what I thought a dollar was...

      > Trick question alert! And NOBODY has any clue!


      That would be an inaccurate statement.


      > "Dollars" are not "denominated" "in silver".


      I stand corrected...the money of account in the
      United States shall be EXPRESSED in dollars.



      > But they got a volunteer to pay it in silver! And currently minted
      > Eagles fill the bill for one dollar denominations! In fact, they
      > overfill the bill!

      Not true. The silver eagles are not in general circulation
      to be used as money, nor are they considered as money in
      circulation. Some who use them may do so in a private
      exchange/trade for their current market value, but that is
      not the same as going into any store and paying for goods
      using silver eagles or asking for them as change, or going
      into a bank and offering a one dollar FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE
      in exhange for a one dollar-denominated silver eagle.


      > Does the court recognize the new reality imposed by MF
      > Global?


      Not a germane issue here, so no.


      Cheers to you!

      mn
    • Larry Milby
      To respond to your below comment; Can imaginary stuff be amounted ? Real stuff can. Was there a date hen it became reality that most people could be
      Message 2 of 11 , May 29, 2012
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        To respond to your below comment;
        Can imaginary stuff be "amounted"?  Real stuff can.  Was there a date
        when it became reality that most people could be persuaded to equate a
        negative number with a positive number?  I must have been out fishing
        that day and missed the announcement (like so much other stuff all those
        around me seem to somehow "know" about, yet they all arrived to the show
        much later than I did.)  I am getting more cranky for sure. Does anyone
        have any idea of the multiples of the GDP that are already owed to
        someone?  The blips can never be materialized for delivery in any
        courtroom.
        Oddly enough according to one CPA that lectured across the country in the late 70s and early 1980s speaking to the patriot groups of that day, he claimed to actually have taken part in the change over of accounting in this very regard.  He claimed to be in college at the time when all the text books were suddenly replaced with text books that now teach how to show a IOU note as being accounts actually received and credited to the account in the black and not in the red.  If my memory serves me correct this took place in the early 30s.  I have literally 100s and 100s of VCR tapes from the 70s 80s and 90s and most all of them are worthless knowledge but I have kept them none the less.  The one with the CPA though seemed to be on the up and up, he had his old text books and backed up everything he said with his actual text books.  I don't recall his name but if you are interested and if you are not in a big hurry, I will see if I can find the VHS tape and at least pass on his name to you.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Frog Farmer <frogfrmr@...>
        To: tips_and_tricks <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, May 28, 2012 11:20 pm
        Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] Re: On emitting bills of credit aka Federal Reserve Notes :-)

        
        
      • Frog Farmer
        ... It matters because it is unpayable. The point will come in this system where another entire planet s output will be needed just to pay the interest (which
        Message 3 of 11 , May 29, 2012
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          > > Does anyone have any idea of the multiples of the GDP that are
          > > already owed to someone?
          >
          > Not sure that it matters. Could not tell you the exact
          > multiple, but less than Japan. Owed to someone, or some
          > entity?

          It matters because it is unpayable. The point will come in this system
          where another entire planet's output will be needed just to pay the
          interest (which is never printed).

          >
          >
          > > > Via FF, via Merrill Jenkins, ask, What is the current account
          > > > of money in the United States today, and how much of that is
          > > > a dollar amount?
          >
          > > Ow! WOW!!! WHAT a MISQUOTE!!!! Fatal, too, if used in action in the
          > > heat of a battle of wits with contenders who may or may not be
          > > unarmed!!
          >
          > Apologies for that..."amount" should be "quantity!"

          Here's the part that causes me to wince: "What is the current account
          of money in the United States today, and how much of that is a dollar
          amount (or quantity)?"

          The account of money??! I'll tell you how much is a dollar amount: All
          of it! No one could ever answer that question anyway because of the
          delay in reporting.

          The real issue is, WHAT is "the money of account". It's not an issue,
          because it is enshrined in unrepealed law. It seems to be an issue
          with tyrants because the words "of account" were deemed by your betters
          to be superfluous and were left out of the more recent statute law books
          for our more recent arrivals, a.k.a. those born yesterday. Without
          changing the law or the intent, many words have been left out, I guess
          to suit newer generations who cannot read like older ones could.

          > > Unfortunately it was misunderstood and summarized
          > > incorrectly. Did one READ Jenkins??
          >
          > Yes, read Jenkins, but my retention is not a sharp
          > as your attention.

          With all the volumes of words available to retain for ones use, and so
          little time, I like to collect gems that have exceptional value for
          their power to "cause the conversation to break right down" in the words
          of G. Gordon. That question by Jenkins is one of the most powerful when
          used timely and properly. One must understand WHAT the "money" IS. Now
          we can rely on Bill Clinton to provide alternative meanings to that word
          (is).

          > Still, my efforts have
          > worked on several occasions.

          It is a little disconcerting when you win even when you make mistakes.
          It shows how they are just role playing in anticipation of thenext
          paycheck.

          > I stand corrected...the money of account in the
          > United States shall be EXPRESSED in dollars.

          In or of the U.S.??

          The concept of money of account allows for the fact that there are many
          "monies" in circulation among those with the will to do it. So many
          people attach importance to the fact that today a majority of people
          CHOOSE to accept what they accept (discounted private commercial debt
          paper), as though that changes the character of the thing they accept
          from what it still is to what they wished it was like other pieces of
          paper had been in days gone by (such as bearer certificates for allodial
          property).

          > > But they got a volunteer to pay it in silver! And currently minted
          > > Eagles fill the bill for one dollar denominations! In fact, they
          > > overfill the bill!
          >
          > Not true. The silver eagles are not in general circulation
          > to be used as money, nor are they considered as money in
          > circulation.

          By you but not by many others. You might be surprised. The law calls
          for them to be produced in quantities to satisfy public demand. Nobody
          can help what the public demands or fails to demand. If people cared,
          they'd redeem their paychecks for lawful money as provided by law. Some
          know better than to work for a paycheck. The law of money is as it
          always was, with additions and privileges added later for those who take
          advantage of them. But the original one law is still on the books, and
          there has only ever been one definition of the word "dollar" in our
          laws. There have been many weasel words written around those words
          since, to confuse those who are confused. We have the power to be
          unconfused, and need not go along with any democracy that enshrines
          error.

          > Some who use them may do so in a private
          > exchange/trade for their current market value, but that is
          > not the same as going into any store and paying for goods
          > using silver eagles or asking for them as change, or going
          > into a bank and offering a one dollar FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE
          > in exchange for a one dollar-denominated silver eagle.

          You haven't heard about Utah. Check it out.

          http://constitutionaltender.blogspot.com/2011/03/utah-governor-signs-gol
          d-silver-legal.html

          Have you ever gone to the trouble of using US Notes? You do know their
          number is strictly limited but their circulation is mandatory. How can
          newer generations learn about money with the disinformation level so
          high today?

          > > Does the court recognize the new reality imposed by MF
          > > Global?
          >
          > Not a germane issue here, so no.

          If it were my case I'd make it germane. Physical cash only amounts to
          5% if that. Coins another 3-5%. So over 90% of what people think is
          money is merely a bookkeeping entry. And MF Global shows that
          bookkeeping entry repositories cannot be trusted to maintain even
          imaginary account intact. Does the court accept Bitcoin?

          Regards,

          FF
        • Frog Farmer
          ... Ah, The Red & The Black! The intrigue builds... ... We have that in common, though I cannot say it is all worthless. Unreliable but not worthless, as
          Message 4 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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            > Oddly enough according to one CPA that lectured across the country in
            > the late 70s and early 1980s speaking to the patriot groups of that
            > day, he claimed to actually have taken part in the change over of
            > accounting in this very regard. He claimed to be in college at the
            > time when all the text books were suddenly replaced with text books
            > that now teach how to show a IOU note as being accounts actually
            > received and credited to the account in the black and not in the red.

            Ah, The Red & The Black! The intrigue builds...

            > If my memory serves me correct this took place in the early 30s. I
            > have literally 100s and 100s of VCR tapes from the 70s 80s and 90s and
            > most all of them are worthless knowledge but I have kept them none the
            > less.

            We have that in common, though I cannot say it is all worthless.
            Unreliable but not worthless, as there were grains of truth everywhere
            to be discovered. I play the game of identifying and then prioritizing
            the grains of truth, so they follow the logical sequence instead of
            saying, "Step 43 is a doozie, I cannot wait to spring it", and then one
            forgets Step One, or Two, or even Six. You wouldn't believe what my
            Step One is today, and don't ask because I'm not going to offer it for
            criticism. Okay, I changed my mind, here's what it is: I take the point
            of view of the sovereign filling the vacuum in the absence of King
            George, after his much ballyhooed defeat via July 4, 1776 and I share in
            experiences that Thomas Jefferson might have enjoyed. I do not claim a
            status I cannot defend, and I avoid subjecting myself to corporate
            entities of any stripe, which means I hold those speaking for those
            entities accountable in the IMOC. That is, if they qualify to be held
            accountable! Guess how many people don't feel quite ready to proclaim
            themselves perfectly qualified to do their JOB!

            Not everyone can do that because they do not have the confidence
            instilled by "literally 100s and 100s of VCR tapes from the 70s 80s and
            90s and most all of them are worthless knowledge" when taken as panaceas
            or silver bullets, or whatever that hapless discoverer thought was valid
            when he made his or her tape. There are too many words on paper that
            people are worrying about, while mere pieces of paper are stealing their
            lives, liberties and properties and their children's future as we speak
            as the biggest ongoing crime in history continues as most are unaware it
            is in progress, or even of the true nature of it. I can't wait until
            the final movie on it comes out!

            > The one with the CPA though seemed to be on the up and up, he
            > had his old text books and backed up everything he said with his
            > actual text books. I don't recall his name but if you are interested
            > and if you are not in a big hurry, I will see if I can find the VHS
            > tape and at least pass on his name to you.

            I am VERY interested in this, as this has been an ongoing question with
            me for years - HOW and WHY don't they see the difference between a
            "HAVE" (Black) and a "HAVE NOT" (Red)?? Oh, right, their word is as
            good as gold! No, they have been outed for those paying attention. And
            they have been thwarted individually, instantly, by those who situated
            themselves atop some special words they picked out of "literally 100s
            and 100s of VCR tapes from the 70s 80s and 90s and most all of them are
            worthless knowledge" BUT Truth rings out and shines in the dark! I
            don't like playing that paper game anymore, so I commence my best
            defense (which is a good offense) in the Initial Moment Of
            Confrontation. I do not wait or delay making my imperial demands of all
            rights at all times for any cause or reason. I do announce that the
            IMOC has begun, as a courtesy to young maleducated well-meaning paycheck
            anticipators in fear of losing their employment, and this is often all
            that is necessary to secure my rights and comfort, and their respect and
            even assistance, neighbor!

            -1 = +1

            Zero must be the only time it is true.

            Just my opinion, as I did flunk algebra. I was good with geometry
            though!

            Regards,

            FF
          • Frog Farmer
            ... When I spent five straight years in court, all my wins contained errors that only I or a friend discovered later. My opponents were unprepared, and later
            Message 5 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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              > > So, how IS anyone ever disqualified in Illinois?
              >
              > Judges ignore oath challenges for attorneys and
              > themselves. Appellates back them up. The better
              > alternative is to make more effective arguments,
              > like the money issue...but a bit more effectively
              > than I presented here. Still, my efforts have
              > worked on several occasions.

              When I spent five straight years in court, all my wins contained errors
              that only I or a friend discovered later. My opponents were unprepared,
              and later we found out we were being used as trainers for newbies. It
              was fun, but I didn't know then what I know now. Now my time is better
              spent so I end stuff toot sweet. Sometimes I extend my play when bored
              or the subject seems promising as an ally neighbor type. I hear there
              is one more man in this area sharing my outlook, but we haven't met yet.
              It's good to be the King (I'm collecting minions for the coming bad
              times)!

              Regards,

              FF
            • Coalbunny
              If I may add some insight to this.... ... This isn t a good description of the quote I snipped, but please read it anyhow. In my experience in this matter, I
              Message 6 of 11 , May 30, 2012
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                If I may add some insight to this....

                On 5/29/2012 12:07 PM, Frog Farmer wrote:
                >
                >>> Does anyone have any idea of the multiples of the GDP that are
                >>> already owed to someone?
                >> Not sure that it matters. Could not tell you the exact
                >> multiple, but less than Japan. Owed to someone, or some
                >> entity?
                > It matters because it is unpayable. The point will come in this system
                > where another entire planet's output will be needed just to pay the
                > interest (which is never printed).
                This isn't a good description of the quote I snipped, but please read it anyhow.
                In my experience in this matter, I have done contract work for the US Government- Dept. of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management. I engaged in a similar discussion with a sovereign citizen back in '97. He said the same stuff, or close to it. The money I was paid really wasn't money as it had no value. No gold backing it up, thus no value, thus worthless pieces of scrap paper. I laughed at him. Those may have been worthless scraps of paper, but those worthless scraps of paper bought me food and paid my bills. And those aren't exactly imaginary. Where did he get his truck & camper? Oh, he traded for them. Where did he get his fuel from? Ohhhh! He paid for them using....the same worthless pieces of paper. Guess they aren't so worthless now, now are they?



                > You haven't heard about Utah. Check it out.
                >
                > http://constitutionaltender.blogspot.com/2011/03/utah-governor-signs-gol
                > d-silver-legal.html
                >
                > Have you ever gone to the trouble of using US Notes? You do know their
                > number is strictly limited but their circulation is mandatory. How can
                > newer generations learn about money with the disinformation level so
                > high today?
                >
                I live in Utah and no one will take anything that isn't cash, check or
                credit. I have yet to find anyone taking gold or silver.
                c
              • Larry Milby
                Every thing I have studied and learned over the past 40 years can be summed up in two words, Notice Pleading if one does not understand notice pleading and
                Message 7 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                  Every thing I have studied and learned over the past 40 years can be summed up in two words, "Notice Pleading" if one does not
                  understand notice pleading and the presumption of facts and how these presumptions are used against us and how to defend we
                  will lose and continue to lose every case we ever fight.  There is a reason CPAs are licensed, they are breaking the law by permission.
                  A license is a permit to do that which is unlawful a trespass or a tort.  So what is unlawful about what a licensed CPA does?  Calls black ink credits and red ink black.
                • Michael
                  ... I trust you are familiar with the card game, Old Maid. Your insights are predicated on a singular belief, that because you can make purchases for goods
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 31, 2012
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                    --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Coalbunny <coalbunny@...> wrote:

                    > Guess they aren't so worthless now, now are they?

                    I trust you are familiar with the card game, Old Maid.

                    Your "insights" are predicated on a singular belief,
                    that because you can make purchases for goods and
                    services with the issued fiat, it has value.

                    Back in the 1940s, one could have purchased gasoline
                    for 12 cents the gallon. Today, let's call it $4
                    the gallon. The same gallon [equivalent] of gas,
                    but the cost is several hundred percent dearer.

                    If one saved their fiat from the 1940s, until today,
                    you can see have they have depreciated in purchasing
                    power.

                    In the 1940s, for an ounce of gold, one could have
                    purchased around 340 gallons of gas. If one saved
                    that same ounce of gold, today it can purchase around
                    380 gallons of gas.

                    Not only has the ounce of gold held its purchasing
                    power over the same span of time, it has slightly
                    increased in purchasing power. The purchasing power
                    of current fiat has decreased by close to 50% in
                    just the past 20 years alone.

                    Putting that aside, what many recognize and consider
                    today's monetary system is, and has been a fraud,
                    for well over a half century.

                    Just a few years ago, one could have purchased silver
                    and gold for $20 and $800 [fiat measured], respectively.
                    Just a few year even before that, one could have
                    purchased silver and gold for $4 and $250 the ounce.

                    The ounce of silver and/or gold is still the same.
                    Intead of paying $4 for silver or $250 for gold, the
                    ounce, it now takes $28 fiats and $1,500 fiats to
                    purchase that same ounces.

                    There is a statement to be made comparing what was
                    stated as "not so worthless now" to what has
                    increased in worth over the same period[s].

                    The corporate federal government has created trillions
                    of more "dollars," via computer blips. For now, the
                    unparalled increases in "dollars" has been held within
                    the failed banking system, which is why there has not
                    been rampant inflation.

                    The Rotschild model is quickly coming apart at the
                    seams. It seems if one continues to maintain a
                    belief in the purchasing power of the imagination,
                    when reality goes mainstream, all that has been
                    imagined will have disappeared. It will be replaced
                    by shock and awe that few could have ever imagined,
                    when that imagination ruled.

                    Cognitive dissonance reigns...for most.



                    > I live in Utah and no one will take anything that
                    > isn't cash, check or credit.

                    Cognitive dissonance...sorry, I just said that.
                    A million wrongs will never amend a single right.
                    Lemmings run in numbers. One can select their own
                    trite saying.


                    > I have yet to find anyone taking gold or silver.

                    If you have not found one does not necessarily
                    mean they do not exist, but I can say that those
                    who do take gold and silver are not imaginary.

                    Cheers...


                    For anyone who might say, "You can't eat gold,"
                    the comeback response would be, "When is the
                    last time you ate a fiat 'dollar'?"
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