Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [tips_and_tricks] Opening bank accout w/o government issued ID?

Expand Messages
  • lg900df@rock.com
    Here is what happened on the bank ID subject and I must give credit where credit is due to the sneaky feds...once again...getting the morons in the private
    Message 1 of 10 , May 4, 2012
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Here is what happened on the bank ID subject and I must give credit where credit is due to the sneaky feds...once again...getting the morons in the private side to do the work of government. 

      They mandated each bank come up with its own ID system and tracking system for number. The feds don't dictate the system but DO audit for compliance that they HAVE a system and that its used. Of course the feds suggested as one of the options, "Use an SSN, but just keep it private. And of course Driver's licenses, passports and other REAL ID are perfect for identification. " How convenient! 

      A lot of banks cite BANK FRAUD as reason for securing SSN's and Driver's licenses. In other words, banks report when fraud occurs. Other banks monitor the reporting and refuse accounts to perpetrators of bank fraud. A lot of banks use CHECKWRITE as their monitoring firm for checking people out.

      When you press them enough, they will eventually tell you, "It has nothing to do with LAW--it is simply our POLICY." Go elsewhere if you don't like it. 

      This should remind you of the south in the 1960's: "Look here N*ggar boy. We don't serve no blacks. Its not the law, it is POLICY. Go elsewhere and find someone who serves you...ha ha."

      What's my point? Discrimination is measured by the lack of ALTERNATIVE choice.

      I've been thinking of an EEOC submission along those lines. Survey a local area. Get all banks to cite policy. Take the complaint CITING ALL BANKS to the EEOC. They would literally &#$% their pants.



      --

      --

      rock.com

    • hobot
      Only a foreigner to the US jurisdiction can open a US governed bank account w/o a tax or SS number. A foreign man/woman or an INC or a trust that has a tax
      Message 2 of 10 , May 6, 2012
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Only a foreigner to the US jurisdiction can open a US governed bank account w/o a tax or SS number. A foreign man/woman or an INC or a trust that has a tax home outside of US Federal Zone can and do open accounts w/o tax or SS number.

        The United States of America [spelled fully out] is non Domestic Alien land to the Federal Zone. Study of use of W8BEN reveals the format used to acquire US Passport and account outside of Federal Zone and to use in lieu of W9=signature card.

        Customs knows the rules but the local postal clerks that take Passport application and oath may not understand and block you sending in the application, so you may need to shop around ‘till finding one to follow the law and let Customs dept. decide. You can make up any locale you like as outside the USofA so no way to check it and must accept your report of it.

        Deal with the banks main office not a branch where you actually do daily business at. You need two non-Gov't issued photo IDs for Passport application. Make up your own form online at ID card sites or use work or club member photo ID. You also need a form for reason of US mail address, tick off for convenience purpose only. Banks have this on hand. Customs no longer issues distinct Passports for US Perons vs non-citizen nationals vs American Nationals but have provisions to denote this on a Passport if you can convince a customs agent to follow the law and print on page 24 or such. Customs does understand-know the difference of standing of non-14th Amendment citizen American National. I have an account with just Passport w/o the Certification of Citizenship, so it’s not a show stopper. Good ideal to request authenticated Passport application to prove the differences to a bank legal department. Patriot Acts and other tax treaties do not apply to American Nations nor Mexicans and legal dept's know this too.

        Name Name 111 Main Street City, County Name, dejure postal route XX [last 2 digits of ZIP] State Name, United States of America.


        http://www.famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Forms/IRS/IRSFormW8BENAmendeds.pdf

        http://www.famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Forms/IRS/IRSFormW8BENAmendeds.pdf
        http://sedm.org/Forms/Tax/Withholding/W-8BEN/AboutIRSFormW-8BEN.htm
        http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw8/index.html

        http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Instructions/3.13ObtainingPassportRecords.pdf

        hobot
      • Marvin Elsesser
        If you are NOT a U.S. citizen, it is illegal under Title 18 USC § 911 to identify yourself in this way. That section reads: Whoever falsely and willfully
        Message 3 of 10 , May 7, 2012
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          If you are NOT a U.S. citizen, it is illegal under Title 18 USC � 911 to identify yourself in this way. That section reads:

          "Whoever falsely and willfully represents himself to be a citizen of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both."

          Notes for that section read:

          "Source

          (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 742; Pub. L. 103�322, title XXXIII, � 330016(1)(H),Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
          Historical and Revision Notes

          Based on subsection (a), paragraph (18) and subsection (d), of section 746, title 8, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Aliens and Nationality (Oct. 14, 1940, ch. 876, � 346(a), par. (18), and (d), 54 Stat. 1165, 1167).
          Section consolidates said provisions of section 746, title 8, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Aliens and Nationality. The word �willfully� was substituted for �knowingly�, �$1,000� for �$5,000�, and �three years� for �five years�, to harmonize with congressional intent evidenced by the other sections of this chapter.
          Minor changes were made in phraseology and unnecessary words were omitted."


          "The limits of tyrants is prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Frederic Douglas, 1857

          The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves.

          ~ Charles de Montesquieu



           
          Anyone with success lately or suggestion on how to tackle opening a business checking account without any government issued personal ID?
          I have read the regulations the banks are obligated to follow for the federal government and Federal Reserve, and there is nothing there that obligates a bank to demand government issued ID from those who were never issued any; If I am missing anything then let me know
        • mg777
          There is no law requiring a person to obtain, have or use a Social Security Number to open, use or maintain a bank account or to perform bank transactions in
          Message 4 of 10 , May 7, 2012
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            There is no law requiring a person to obtain, have or use a Social Security Number to open, use or maintain a bank account or to perform bank transactions in the United States.

            According to 31 CFR 103.28 requires identification as follows:
            Before concluding an transaction with respect to which a report required under Sec. 130.22, a financial institution shall verify and record the name and address of the individual presenting a transaction, as well as record the identify, account number, and the social security or taxpayer identification number, if any, of any person or entity on whose behalf such transaction is to be effected.

            According to 31 CFR 103.33 requires financial institutions to include a "notation in the record" that a customer lacks a social security number or certain other identification.

            Financial institutions may be required to ask for proper identification and a social security number. The financial institution is required to make a record of the identify records that you provide the. However, there is no law requiring an account holder or customer to provide a social security number. Additionally, there is no law prohibiting a financial institution from opening an account or completing a transaction because a customer lacks a social security number.

            This is the information I found out about when I open a business account without a social security number. Hope this helps.


            --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Marvin Elsesser <elsesser.mp60@...> wrote:
            >
            > If you are NOT a U.S. citizen, it is illegal under Title 18 USC § 911 to identify yourself in this way. That section reads:
            >
          • jem5733
            QUESTION 5.11: Question 5.11: How do I open a checking account or bank
            Message 5 of 10 , May 7, 2012
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment

              QUESTION 5.11:  < http://sedm.org/FAQs/FAQs-Sect5.htm  >

               

              Question 5.11:  How do I open a checking account or bank account without a "Taxpayer Identification Number"?

              Answer 5.11:  The following procedure is ONLY intended for persons who meet ALL of the requirements of our Member Agreement, Form #01.001 .  If you do NOT meet all of the requirements, this procedure is not recommended and in many cases will NOT work:

              1. Complete all the requirements of becoming a Member:

                1.1  Submit the Resignation of Compelled Social Security Trustee, Form #06.002 .

                1.2  Submit the Legal Notice of Change in Domicile/Citizenship Records and Divorce from the United States, Form #10.001 .

                 

                1.3  Apply for a passport as a "non-citizen national" and a "nonresident alien" and WITHOUT an government identifying number.  You should use NOTHING for ID that will link you to a government number AFTER you terminate Social Security Participation.

                http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Citizenship/ApplyingForAPassport.htm  (OFFSITE LINK)

                 

                If you want to understand why the above three steps are necessary, read:

                 

                  Developing Evidence of Citizenship and Sovereignty, Form #12.002 

                  Why You Are a "national" or a "state national" and not a "U.S. citizen", Form #05.006 

                  Nonresident Alien Position, Form #05.020 

              2. Read and thoroughly understand either one of the following two articles:

                2.1  About SSNs and TINs on Government Correspondence, Form #07.004 

                2.2  About SSNs and TINs on Government Correspondence, Form #05.012 

              3. Complete and submit the   Affidavit of Citizenship, Domicile, and Tax Status, Form #02.001  to the institution and explain that it satisfies the requirements found in 26 CFR §1.1441-6(c)(1) and constitutes a "certificate of residence" in lieu of a W-8BEN form, which is only for use by "taxpayers" and "beneficial owners" and you are neither.
              4. If they do not accept the above, use the AMENDED IRS Form W-8BEN  with the Affidavit of Citizenship, Domicile and Tax Status, Form #02.001 .
              5. If the Above does not work, use the STANDARD IRS form W-8BEN  prepared according to the instructions in our article About IRS Form W-8BEN, Form #04.202   and attach the Tax Form Attachment, Form 04.201 

              The above has consistently worked for many of our readers. Maker sure you follow the About IRS Form W-8BEN, Form #04.202, Section 8  faithfully and read this article several times and thoroughly understand everything it says so you can think on your feet and forcefully defend what the law requires in front of the sharpest bank clerk or bank manager.  If you don't do your homework and are not able to quickly respond to any questions or concerns they have by showing them the law that authorizes what you are doing, then the legal ignorance of the average bank teller or financial institution may cause them to falsely suspect you are a tax evader and they may decide later to refuse to do business with you, even though you are doing nothing wrong or unlawful. 

              THE LAW IS YOUR FRIEND.  KNOW IT, FOLLOW IT, AND USE IT IN YOUR DEFENSE OR LOSE YOUR LIBERTY.


              http://www.worldservice.org/docpass.html 

              http://www.sedm.org 


            • hobot
              I found this out by looking into major University registration info on visiting professors who are not US PERSONs nor US residents to obtain bank and Dr. Lic.
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7, 2012
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                I found this out by looking into major University registration info on visiting professors who are not US PERSONs nor US residents to obtain bank and Dr. Lic. There is a Dept of Treasury internal memo sent to all DMV's and banks that SSA will not check up on TIN or SSN and the Gov't and bank staff must take what's reported to them as true and complete the applications for account of dr. lic. W8BEN is perfectly designed to do so, IF you find the right variation of its various versions of format that is easy to fill in and tick off as not qualifying for a SSN nor bank treaties.

                hobot
              • jem5733
                Re: Opening bank accout w/o government issued ID? QUESTION 5.11: Question
                Message 7 of 10 , May 8, 2012
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Re: Opening bank accout w/o government issued ID?


                  QUESTION 5.11:  < http://sedm.org/FAQs/FAQs-Sect5.htm  >

                   

                  Question 5.11:  How do I open a checking account or bank account without a "Taxpayer Identification Number"?

                  Answer 5.11:  The following procedure is ONLY intended for persons who meet ALL of the requirements of our Member Agreement, Form #01.001 .  If you do NOT meet all of the requirements, this procedure is not recommended and in many cases will NOT work:

                  1. Complete all the requirements of becoming a Member:

                    1.1  Submit the Resignation of Compelled Social Security Trustee, Form #06.002 .

                    1.2  Submit the Legal Notice of Change in Domicile/Citizenship Records and Divorce from the United States, Form #10.001 .

                     

                    1.3  Apply for a passport as a "non-citizen national" and a "nonresident alien" and WITHOUT an government identifying number.  You should use NOTHING for ID that will link you to a government number AFTER you terminate Social Security Participation.

                    http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Citizenship/ApplyingForAPassport.htm  (OFFSITE LINK)

                     

                    If you want to understand why the above three steps are necessary, read:

                     

                      Developing Evidence of Citizenship and Sovereignty, Form #12.002 

                      Why You Are a "national" or a "state national" and not a "U.S. citizen", Form #05.006 

                      Nonresident Alien Position, Form #05.020 

                  2. Read and thoroughly understand either one of the following two articles:

                    2.1  About SSNs and TINs on Government Correspondence, Form #07.004 

                    2.2  About SSNs and TINs on Government Correspondence, Form #05.012 

                  3. Complete and submit the   Affidavit of Citizenship, Domicile, and Tax Status, Form #02.001  to the institution and explain that it satisfies the requirements found in 26 CFR §1.1441-6(c)(1) and constitutes a "certificate of residence" in lieu of a W-8BEN form, which is only for use by "taxpayers" and "beneficial owners" and you are neither.
                  4. If they do not accept the above, use the AMENDED IRS Form W-8BEN  with the Affidavit of Citizenship, Domicile and Tax Status, Form #02.001 .
                  5. If the Above does not work, use the STANDARD IRS form W-8BEN  prepared according to the instructions in our article About IRS Form W-8BEN, Form #04.202   and attach the Tax Form Attachment, Form 04.201 

                  The above has consistently worked for many of our readers. Maker sure you follow the About IRS Form W-8BEN, Form #04.202, Section 8  faithfully and read this article several times and thoroughly understand everything it says so you can think on your feet and forcefully defend what the law requires in front of the sharpest bank clerk or bank manager.  If you don't do your homework and are not able to quickly respond to any questions or concerns they have by showing them the law that authorizes what you are doing, then the legal ignorance of the average bank teller or financial institution may cause them to falsely suspect you are a tax evader and they may decide later to refuse to do business with you, even though you are doing nothing wrong or unlawful. 

                  THE LAW IS YOUR FRIEND.  KNOW IT, FOLLOW IT, AND USE IT IN YOUR DEFENSE OR LOSE YOUR LIBERTY.


                  http://www.worldservice.org/docpass.html 

                • lg900df@rock.com
                  Re: SEDM approach SEDM is very complete however you don t need to do all those steps to use a form W8BEN modified or not. Nearly any bank around here will
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 9, 2012
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Re: SEDM approach

                    SEDM is very complete however you don't need to do all those steps to use a form W8BEN modified or not.

                    Nearly any bank around here will grant an account based upon a form W8BEN. Some even offered it. However ALL banks around here accept it only upon presentation of a foreign passport or Mexican Matriclardo ID card. You can find this online in how to open up accounts...for example...buried on PNC Bank's website even.

                    My experience with any bank and handing them anything on law, citizenship, etc.: 
                    The banks LOOK at the legal paperwork but come back with: "Our legal department has no comment on your paperwork. We write our own policy on whom we accept for an account. Our policy states we need a foreign passport or Mexican ID card with a filled-out form W8BEN. Sorry!" 

                    BTW:
                    Just in case you're thinking of using the law sections on them, the banks are WELL prepared for that one. The bank association puts out a newsletter. In there was a discussion on that topic as many people approached the banks on that topic. One banker was kind enough to show me the copy saying "it is part of our training."

                    BTW2: I'm not saying NOT to try it. I'm just giving you the heads-up as knowledge is power..




                    --

                    rock.com

                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.