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Do I owe "income" taxes

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  • FreeDave
    I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, income taxes. I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 3, 2011
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      I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, "income" taxes.

      I would consider paying someone who could establish a certainty in me of those two things.

      I have done a lot of looking online, but, although I am very literate, I tend to become confused by legalese and the many, often conflicting, points of view.

      FreeDave
    • lg900df@rock.com
      First I will talk about paying for opinion and next I will address your other questions: {1} You might find someone to definitively tell you that you won t
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 3, 2011
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        First I will talk about "paying for opinion" and next I will
        address your other questions:

        {1} You might find someone to definitively tell you that you won't
        have to pay or file. The problem is just what you expressed--you
        will find 1000 others that say the contrary. And looking further,
        you'll find someone again who says you need not pay or file. What's
        the problem? You don't know the truth because your truth is only in
        the opinion of others. Yep, no matter how fancy their lawyer suit
        or black robe or expensive freedom course, its just their opinion.
        It's not your fault you didn't find truth yet. Unfortunately the
        government of the US has purposefully hidden the real truth behind
        10,000 pages of IRC. [You wouldn't be asking the questions if you didn't already think this--unless you're a "plant" of
        government hoping someone will endorse you to not pay taxes or
        'practice like a lawyer'.]

        The goal of all governments throughout
        history is NOT to move you to action--such as finding whether or
        not you have to succumb and be a subject and pay. NOPE! The goal is
        to move you to INACTION...aka...they want you to be confused...just
        like 99% of the drones who file and pay things yet who never even
        looked at page ONE of law. People who are moved to ACTION question
        things....they try, maybe fail, try again, maybe fail, try
        again....maybe SUCCEED. Or maybe they fail. All the signers of the
        Declaration of Independence were ACTION people. But people of
        INACTION never try so they never could possibly succeed.

        Opinion: Don't waste your money on expensive courses of $4K+ or
        programs talking getting out of taxes. Not worth it. They WILL
        leave you hanging in 4 years when the IRS catches-up .....in spite
        of what they say. And frankly, don't waste your money on CPA's--who
        know nothing--and even lawyers. [The courts have even stated, "Most
        lawyers have scant knowledge of income tax laws."] And don't waste
        your time with the IRS--the courts have stated their OPINION is not
        to be relied upon. If you have the time to research things and
        LEARN like any responsible fellow, the education might take a
        little longer, but you WILL learn. There are some good
        websites/forums where you won't be screwed to learn such as this
        one [tips and tricks], SEDM/Family Guardian, www.edrivera.com,
        "Patriot Network", paycheck for privacy, etc.. You'll learn faster
        than you think. If you don't have this time for education then I
        would suggest you play it safe--pay every tax for which some others
        [even if wrong] might have the opinion you are legally-liable-for
        and in like fashion file every return for which some others [even
        if wrong] think you have a legal duty to file.


        [2} Ok...part 2...This will get you thinking--it is my truth but it
        might be considered opinion by others.

        If you own your house, do you make the rules and laws for that
        house? Most people would say, "You betcha!! Otherwise my teenage
        son would destroy it." What you just thought is what is called an
        "implied proprietary power". All government's exercise "implied
        proprietary power" over NOTHING MORE that territory of ownership.
        All the rest is "smokin' mirrors".

        Between Canada and Mexico their are two kinds of territory [land]:
        (1) Territory owned by and ceded to the United States of America
        and (2) Territory that is not. Take a wild guess where you most
        likely live and work.

        All taxes are "internal" to the United States--the territory owned
        by and ceded to the United States of America. In order for someone
        to have to pay income taxes, one or more of the following
        conditions must apply:
        (1) You have to reside/domicile/abode within the United States
        (2) You must CLAIM to be a citizen or national of the United States.
        (3) You must have some kind of income producing activity in the
        United States.

        Even within the United States, the collector and assessor's
        office's were abolished a long time ago making the filing of a
        return "a system of voluntary compliance by the making of a
        return." [The latter is how the IRS CORRECTLY describes the
        requirement to file a return. So even said Harry Reid--Congressman]

        I just gave you the shortest version of a truthful answer.







        --
        You Rock! Your E-Mail Should Too! Signup Now at Rock.com and get 2GB of Storage!

        http://connections.rock.com/user/displayUserRegisterPage.kickAction?as=116748&STATUS=MAIN
      • john john
        What makes you think you owe Income taxes?
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 4, 2011
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          What makes you think you owe "Income" taxes?

          On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:19 PM, FreeDave <dave.kushin@...> wrote:
           

          I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, "income" taxes.

          I would consider paying someone who could establish a certainty in me of those two things.

          I have done a lot of looking online, but, although I am very literate, I tend to become confused by legalese and the many, often conflicting, points of view.

          FreeDave


        • spanky horawitz
          Check out http://www.taxrevolt.us/ Dave Champion s Income Tax - Shattering the Myths Moderator/Bear: Dave, I m allowing this link because it may be one of
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 4, 2011
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            Check out http://www.taxrevolt.us/

            Dave Champion's "Income Tax - Shattering the Myths"

            Moderator/Bear: Dave, I'm allowing this link because it may be one of the best references you are going to see. Because I am allowing this link, contrary to my group rules, I expect you to acquire the book, read it, and then get back to the group with a book report. If you work for the government, I expect you, as holding a position of trust and having a fiduciary duty, to make a full disclosure of that fact to this group.

            Further, Dave, before you depart from filing and paying, I strongly urge you to become an expert in Constitutional law, statutory construction, administrative procedure, civil, and criminal procedure. You should also become an expert in spotting the crimes committed by the feds in the process of their attempt to intimidate you into conforming with their will. Their will is that not only you pay, but everyone else pays as well. Keep in mind there is more than a TRILLION Federal Reserve Notes a YEAR at stake and that it is no fun to work in the government if there is no money to spend. Also, everyone in the federal court, US attorney's office, and the IRS BELIEVES that if the income tax is not collected they won't be paid. Translated for you: THEY ALL HAVE AN AGENDA! Why...the audacity of Dave Champion, or anyone else, to go against the agenda!

            Take Tommy Crier's pre-induction physical exam. He says it this way, "considering becoming a non-filer? Before you make that decision and crawl into the cave you should first make sure you are fit for one-on-one combat with the beast." The exam is here:
            http://www.truthattack.org/jml/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=49

            Also, I don't know how much money you have, but, I encourage you to put some thought into how much you will need to buy an attorney's allegiance if the opponents are the federal government and the IRS. Attorneys are almost NEVER altruistic when it comes to fighting such formidable opponents. Why not surreptitiously throw you to the dogs if they can get you to pay them well for doing it at the same time? For an on the record example of an attorney selling out a client for personal gain review this case:
            http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=301907425775212796&q=class+%22United+Parcel+Service%22&hl=en&as_sdt=4,5

            You've done well getting me to write this much, Bear
            ________________________________
            From: FreeDave <dave.kushin@...>
            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, July 3, 2011 11:19:01 AM
            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Do I owe "income" taxes


            I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by
            the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, "income" taxes.

            I would consider paying someone who could establish a certainty in me of those
            two things.

            I have done a lot of looking online, but, although I am very literate, I tend to
            become confused by legalese and the many, often conflicting, points of view.

            FreeDave
          • Randy Maugans
            One will never be sure as the laws were written for obfuscation, not clarity. That we the people (in the mind matrix of the so-called Constitution)
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 4, 2011
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              One will never be "sure" as the laws were written for obfuscation, not clarity. That "we the people" (in the mind matrix of the so-called Constitution) continue to look for relief from such a defective document is rabbit hole #1. Rabbit hole #2 is that you would seek an "attorney" (look up the history of the "attorners" of feudalism) to aid you, when these are all officers of the courts and owe allegiance to their system---not their "clients." Rabbit hole #3 is that you would seek any external authorities, especially on websites of "tax protesters" (such as defined in the the IRS Codes), and especially any seeking payment for their "information." The IRS does not like anyone edging in on their money game, just as the Fed pursues counterfeiters because it represents a competing gang.

              Dave Champion, like all high profile tax resistance movements, is doomed to failure the moment a PRICE (in US FRAUD$) was placed on it. You have a choice: use THEIR system to make money and play the game, or be brought down.

              There is ONE authority: the voice inside you that determines a moral compunction, or lack thereof; the reasoning of higher intelligence to act boldly as a single being toward your moral will, and to do so using the information that compels your reasoning. There actually ARE many people "outside the system", to one degree or another, and they do so quietly, with tenacity, and with conviction. Their path isn't easy, but they have an inner conviction that allows them to prevail, and to slowly break the grip of tyranny.

              If YOU lack enough conviction to press into understanding the statutes and how the court systems work...and that you will NOT win in "their" courts, you should simply continue to pay, file, and comply. Groups...even this one...are full of competing tactics, variable opinions, and constant arguments as to the "correctness" of various tactics. Even plying their well-crafted documents in the arcane legalese is simply a cloak for the ignorance they parade in front of willfully ignorant "officers of courts." Even the tern, "non-filer" is a legal term that stands inside the judicial jargon and places one in their purview.

              I have been "outside" of their system for 20 years, in one fashion or another, and faced repeated trials of my faith and tenacity. How does one do this? "If I tell you I will have to kill you." My conclusions, actions, and trials are based on my own work...not that of gurus and self-knowing pundits in groups. Did I glean from these? Yes! But, IF I allowed THEIR interpretations, THEIR tactics, and THEIR discernment to ever come near my own----I am DEAD MEAT! 

              Suffice to say that it took me ONE letter, properly crated, and placed into the hands of the right person at the right time to halt actions that I have seen strip others to poverty, nervous breakdowns, and total capitulation---or prison. There is more than one way to defeat the Beast, but only ONE will that prevails: KNOWING. When you KNOW, you will not ask: "How do I know?" And you will not place yourself in the shadow of  another persons so-called "wisdom", to twist in the wind. 

              Winning in not about defeating a system, it is about winning your OWN liberty...then, you can quietly, by example, teach others whom you see have the HEART for a battle they do not appear to be able to win. You are not a monkey that needs to jump through hoops for some "guru"; you are not an ant who needs the collective wisdom to gather crumbs...you certainly do not need to "join" yet another doomed effort to bring down the tax system (you will be co-opted)...YOU need to line up with YOU, and get wisdom ,get knowledge, and get a solid grip on your heart. this is not a "legal" battle, it is a battle of hearts and will. The answer in within you...the rest is WORK.

              Randy Maugans

              (Wonder if this will get posted?)



              I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by
              the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, "income" taxes.
            • Randy Maugans
              One will never be sure as the laws were written for obfuscation, not clarity. That we the people (in the mind matrix of the so-called Constitution)
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 4, 2011
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                One will never be "sure" as the laws were written for obfuscation, not clarity. That "we the people" (in the mind matrix of the so-called Constitution) continue to look for relief from such a defective document is rabbit hole #1. Rabbit hole #2 is that you would seek an "attorney" (look up the history of the "attorners" of feudalism) to aid you, when these are all officers of the courts and owe allegiance to their system---not their "clients." Rabbit hole #3 is that you would seek any external authorities, especially on websites of "tax protesters" (such as defined in the the IRS Codes), and especially any seeking payment for their "information." The IRS does not like anyone edging in on their money game, just as the Fed pursues counterfeiters because it represents a competing gang.

                Dave Champion, like all high profile tax resistance movements, is doomed to failure the moment a PRICE (in US FRAUD$) was placed on it. You have a choice: use THEIR system to make money and play the game, or be brought down.

                There is ONE authority: the voice inside you that determines a moral compunction, or lack thereof; the reasoning of higher intelligence to act boldly as a single being toward your moral will, and to do so using the information that compels your reasoning. There actually ARE many people "outside the system", to one degree or another, and they do so quietly, with tenacity, and with conviction. Their path isn't easy, but they have an inner conviction that allows them to prevail, and to slowly break the grip of tyranny.

                If YOU lack enough conviction to press into understanding the statutes and how the court systems work...and that you will NOT win in "their" courts, you should simply continue to pay, file, and comply. Groups...even this one...are full of competing tactics, variable opinions, and constant arguments as to the "correctness" of various tactics. Even plying their well-crafted documents in the arcane legalese is simply a cloak for the ignorance they parade in front of willfully ignorant "officers of courts." Even the tern, "non-filer" is a legal term that stands inside the judicial jargon and places one in their purview.

                I have been "outside" of their system for 20 years, in one fashion or another, and faced repeated trials of my faith and tenacity. How does one do this? "If I tell you I will have to kill you." My conclusions, actions, and trials are based on my own work...not that of gurus and self-knowing pundits in groups. Did I glean from these? Yes! But, IF I allowed THEIR interpretations, THEIR tactics, and THEIR discernment to ever come near my own----I am DEAD MEAT! 

                Suffice to say that it took me ONE letter, properly crated, and placed into the hands of the right person at the right time to halt actions that I have seen strip others to poverty, nervous breakdowns, and total capitulation---or prison. There is more than one way to defeat the Beast, but only ONE will that prevails: KNOWING. When you KNOW, you will not ask: "How do I know?" And you will not place yourself in the shadow of  another persons so-called "wisdom", to twist in the wind. 

                Winning in not about defeating a system, it is about winning your OWN liberty...then, you can quietly, by example, teach others whom you see have the HEART for a battle they do not appear to be able to win. You are not a monkey that needs to jump through hoops for some "guru"; you are not an ant who needs the collective wisdom to gather crumbs...you certainly do not need to "join" yet another doomed effort to bring down the tax system (you will be co-opted)...YOU need to line up with YOU, and get wisdom ,get knowledge, and get a solid grip on your heart. this is not a "legal" battle, it is a battle of hearts and will. The answer in within you...the rest is WORK.

                Randy Maugans

                On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:19 PM, FreeDave <dave.kushin@...> wrote:
                 

                I am looking for a way to become certain about whether or not I am required by the IRC to file, and whether or not I am required to pay, "income" taxes.

                I would consider paying someone who could establish a certainty in me of those two things.

                I have done a lot of looking online, but, although I am very literate, I tend to become confused by legalese and the many, often conflicting, points of view.

                FreeDave


              • Michael
                ... The only thing sure in life is death... ... Depends on where one starts. I started with, Dear IRS: Prove that I am a taxpayer and that I lawfully owe
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 4, 2011
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                  --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Randy Maugans <randy.maugans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > One will never be "sure"

                  The only thing sure in life is death...


                  > That "we the people" continue to look for relief
                  > from such a defective document is > rabbit hole #1.

                  Depends on where one starts. I started with, "Dear
                  IRS: Prove that I am a taxpayer and that I lawfully
                  owe taxes, for which I am willing to pay, once you do,"
                  in short.


                  > Rabbit hole #2 is that you would seek an "attorney"

                  Old news.


                  > Rabbit hole #3 is that you would seek any external
                  > authorities, especially on websites of "tax protesters"

                  One has to start somewhere. It is where I started, and
                  persisted, going through a lot of garbage. Not saying
                  it it the preferred place to start, however.


                  > Dave Champion, like all high profile tax resistance
                  > movements, is doomed to failure the moment a PRICE
                  > (in US FRAUD$) was placed on it.

                  Opinion, or fact...

                  > You have a choice: use THEIR system to make money
                  and play the game, or be brought down.

                  There is more than you list.


                  You go ont to cover gound in some platitudes you
                  deem ironclad, for some reason. My "trial" going
                  against the IRS was not difficult.




                  > Suffice to say that it took me ONE letter, properly
                  > crated, and placed into the hands of the right person
                  > at the right time to halt actions that I have
                  > seen strip others to poverty, nervous breakdowns, and
                  > total capitulation---or prison. ...then, you can quietly,
                  > by example, teach others...

                  I guess that is your next installment. It took me several
                  tries, so you are doing better than I did. I did have
                  fun doing it, however, once I caught on to how powerless
                  the IRS is...not to underestimate the power they wield.

                  Cheers...
                • Dave Kushin
                  First, I want to thank very much all who responded for your willingness to help -- some very interesting responses. Second, I hereby agree that I take no
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 5, 2011
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                    First, I want to thank very much all who responded for your willingness to help -- some very interesting responses.

                    Second, I hereby agree that I take no response as advising me not to pay taxes or anything which might be contrary to any law, including giving legal advice or practicing law.

                    Third, I am nowhere even remotely close to being ready or willing to tangle with or oppose the IRS, so no one needs to advise me to continue filing or paying or anything along that line.  Right now I'm just trying to get to the truth about the IRC as simply and understandably as possible.

                    My main source of data has been Pete Hendrickson.  I've also read that "wages" are not taxable because they are not profit.  But Pete wrote, "all 'income' received as 'wages' over the statutory exemption amount is generally deemed to be 'profit' in the context of the tax, and always has been."

                    So as I understand it, according to Pete, money received for private sector labor, services, etc. is not taxable because it is not federally privileged -- the reason it is not taxable does not have to do with whether or not it is profit.

                    That's the main point I want to clarify right now. 

                    Dave


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