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IRS Form W-9

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  • Mike
    My pension fund refuses to pay my benefits until I complete and sign a Form W-9. The form is a request, but I m being required as a condition of
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 2011
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      My pension fund refuses to pay my benefits until I complete and sign
      a Form W-9. The form is a request, but I'm being required as a condition
      of qualification. This is a small pension that I've been paying into
      every month since 1969. I was born in Alabama and I'm now a resident of
      Illinois, I don't have any proof that I'm a US Person. I don't want to
      sign this form under a penalty of perjury clause . What can I do?
    • hobot
      Give a proper filled out W8BEN and Reason for US mailing address use as non resident transient foreigner. Joe Blow 100 Main Street apt # City, County of.
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 29, 2011
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        Give a proper filled out W8BEN and Reason for US mailing address use as
        non resident transient foreigner.

        Joe Blow
        100 Main Street apt #
        City, County of. Davis, mail rt 11 - use last 2 zip digits at dejure
        mail route.
        Texas, United States of America, - all spelled out

        There are many versions of W8BEN, this is one I like best.
        http://www.famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Forms/IRS/IRSFormW8BENAmendeds.pdf

        Search this form on web to find extensive site with background to study that
        applies directly to you situation.
      • MadDogMarine
        Here is a multi page response to include a blank W-9ALT which you can sign. I have successfully used it, but no guarantees. It has a copy of IRS reasonable
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 29, 2011
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          Here is a multi page response to include a blank W-9ALT which you can
          sign.
          I have successfully used it, but no guarantees.
          It has a copy of IRS "reasonable cause" provisions which gets the company
          off the hook for any IRS fines for not having your SSN on file.
          It makes it easier for them to make payments w/o a SSN.

          www.plugnpump.com/errata/BinderW9.pdf

          Let me know if you have trouble downloading.
        • Frank Dartee
          ... I do? If you will read the instructions on the form, it states that it does not require a signature.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 29, 2011
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            >I don't want to sign this form under a penalty of perjury clause . What can I do?
             
            If you will read the instructions on the form, it states that it does not require a signature.
          • dave
            ... Several ways to get around W9 requirements depending on what you want to accomplish: 1. Point to the title “Request for a TIN” and explain to
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 30, 2011
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              I found this educational piece that was sent to me:

               

              >>>W9 Education Piece

              Several ways to get around W9 requirements depending on what you want to accomplish:

              1.       Point to the title “Request for a TIN” and explain to your employer that you request of him $1million for filling out the form….then laugh and clarify, “See…a request does not mean anyone has a legal duty to supply this form.” [He might say his requirement is to have a TIN]

              2.       Mark in all zeros for the TIN.

              3.       Mark in the spot “NO TIN—not a taxpayer”

              4.       Mark in the spot “applied for”.

              5.       If you’re worried about Penalty of Perjury sign it cursively “Declined in Toto”.

              6.       Mark on the form near the signature “Form invalid without attachment”.  In an attachment state the justification for the attachment is penalty of perjury requires a statement of truth by the imposition of penalties for non truth and this attachment was your way of telling the truth. Then re-define terms you don’t like. Redefine Penalty of Perjury as “My yes is my yes and my no is my no—for anything more is from the evil one” cite Book of Matthew.

              7.       Use an alternate form.

              The problem with ALL of these is whoever is handing you the form WILL information-return you with a 1099/1098. So all the above will NOT get you out of an information return as nearly ALL these moron “employers” have been told to slap you with one of those false-accusation information returns.

               

              Now you can TRY some kind of statement that you are NOT subject to information-return filing but MOST employers will flat out ignore it. [It used to work but now most refuse things.] Why? The lawyers and accountants of employers are the new STATED “partners” of the IRS in “the administration and enforcement of IRC laws”. In spite of the law, they ADVISE what the IRS tells them too.

               

              However think for a moment…..what ONE ENTITY do they NEVER 1099/1098?....what ONE entity do they NEVER even ask for a 1099/1098??? Answer: If they ASSUME you a corporation. Think, they NEVER ask for a 1099 from FedX even though they pay them more than $600 do they? And they NEVER info return them do they? Why??? Answer: Because again they ASSUME them a corporation…and IMPORTANTLY they assume them NOT to be a sole proprietor or partnership. Did you know that 99% of these bean counters get their ideas from some bogus teachings in business schools about only 3 types of things: partnership, sole proprietor, corporation?? Hint: Anytime they see a name like Joe Blow or Joe Blow Plumbing they assume you to be the first two things and then slap you with the 1099 and then whether or not you fill it out, they info return you. Think of these bean counters as those weak minded android guards from Star Wars—drones doing what they are told. Now you can confront them but 95% will still info return you. Or you can do what Luke Skywalker did with Obi’s help from the force. That should give you a hint. BTW: Never end-name yourself “Inc.” or “Ltd” unless you really are that. Any other ending is fair game.

              >>  



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            • dave
              The BINDER W9 form has the makings of a good form…in other words some very good ideas such as making it easy for the employer to get off the hook, however
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 30, 2011
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                The BINDER W9  form has the makings of a good form…in other words some very good ideas such as making it easy for the employer to get off the hook, however the claiming of “protected individual” I don’t think is a good idea.

                 

                You can get an idea what a protected individual is by the study of the below cited law section from the form. However I will give you a different perspective and you will see how this is in-congruence with the below.

                 

                If you are say the country Canada, do you protect Canadian citizens? Yep. All nations offer a measure of protection for their citizens in exchange for allegiance and fleecing called taxation. So are the citizens of Canada ‘protected individuals’ in a manner of speaking ….by Canada? Yes. Now look at the below law and tell me who the government of the US is protecting under “protected individual”? Yes….Citizens/nationals of the US and those LAWFULLY admitted aliens! Now if you look further in the law you’ll see they can prefer the Citizen/nationals of the US over aliens, so that means you don’t want to be an alien. So if you are claiming protected individual, are you not claiming “means an individual who is a citizen or national of the United States.”? FYI: The United States is the territory and other property owned by and ceded to the United States of America for which the Constitution is the supreme law of that land and for which a Congress of the United States and a President of the United States administrate with laws.

                 

                If I was going to claim some kind of protection by binding an employer under this law, it would be under “national origin.” See below.

                 

                 

                 

                TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324b

                Prev | Next

                § 1324b. Unfair immigration-related employment practices

                How Current is This?

                (a) Prohibition of discrimination based on national origin or citizenship status

                (1) General rule

                It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien, as defined in section 1324a (h)(3) of this title) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment—

                (A) because of such individual’s national origin, or

                (B) in the case of a protected individual (as defined in paragraph (3)), because of such individual’s citizenship status.

                (2) Exceptions

                Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—

                (A) a person or other entity that employs three or fewer employees,

                (B) a person’s or entity’s discrimination because of an individual’s national origin if the discrimination with respect to that person or entity and that individual is covered under section 703 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 [42 U.S.C. 2000e–2], or

                (C) discrimination because of citizenship status which is otherwise required in order to comply with law, regulation, or executive order, or required by Federal, State, or local government contract, or which the Attorney General determines to be essential for an employer to do business with an agency or department of the Federal, State, or local government.

                (3) Protected individual” defined

                As used in paragraph (1), the term “protected individual” means an individual who—

                (A) is a citizen or national of the United States, or

                (B) is an alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence, is granted the status of an alien lawfully admitted for temporary residence under section 1160 (a) or 1255a (a)(1) of this title, is admitted as a refugee under section 1157 of this title, or is granted asylum under section 1158 of this title; but does not include

                (i) an alien who fails to apply for naturalization within six months of the date the alien first becomes eligible (by virtue of period of lawful permanent residence) to apply for naturalization or, if later, within six months after November 6, 1986, and

                (ii) an alien who has applied on a timely basis, but has not been naturalized as a citizen within 2 years after the date of the application, unless the alien can establish that the alien is actively pursuing naturalization, except that time consumed in the Service’s processing the application shall not be counted toward the 2-year period.

                (4) Additional exception providing right to prefer equally qualified citizens

                Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, it is not an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to prefer to hire, recruit, or refer an individual who is a citizen or national of the United States over another individual who is an alien if the two individuals are equally qualified.

                (5) Prohibition of intimidation or retaliation

                It is also an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to intimidate, threaten, coerce, or retaliate against any individual for the purpose of interfering with any right or privilege secured under this section or because the individual intends to file or has filed a charge or a complaint, testified, assisted, or participated in any manner in an investigation, proceeding, or hearing under this section. An individual so intimidated, threatened, coerced, or retaliated against shall be considered, for purposes of subsections (d) and (g) of this section, to have been discriminated against.

                (6) Treatment of certain documentary practices as employment practices

                A person’s or other entity’s request, for purposes of satisfying the requirements of section 1324a (b) of this title, for more or different documents than are required under such section or refusing to honor documents tendered that on their face reasonably appear to be genuine shall be treated as an unfair immigration-related employment practice if made for the purpose or with the intent of discriminating against an individual in violation of paragraph (1).

                (b) Charges of violations



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              • Mike
                ... Thank you, I believe you are correct and the use of the W-9, with my Social Security Number and left unsigned is going to be my solution. How am I going to
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 30, 2011
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                  --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Frank Dartee <frank.dartee@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >I don't want to sign this form under a penalty of perjury clause . What can
                  > I do?
                  >
                  > If you will read the instructions on the form, it states that it does not
                  > require a signature.
                  >
                  Thank you, I believe you are correct and the use of the W-9, with my Social Security Number and left unsigned is going to be my solution. How am I going to explain, at some future date, why I used the W-9 even though the instructions say it is not to be used by non-US Persons. I
                  am a Nonresident Alien, will that matter if I don't sign the W-9?
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